Salary Cap: Should Mac T have used a buy out on Hemsky ?

[Hemsky is a gangsta]

:

I don't need to watch ****ing practice. I watch the ****ing games. And anybody who has watched the games over the last decade knows that Hemsky has left everything on the ice for this team. Anybody saying otherwise doesn't have a clue.

 

[oStealthKiller*]

Considering Mact openly declared Hemsky to be "on the move", along with Horcoff, and Horcoff was the only guy he could find a taker for, with a higher cap hit and one extra year on his deal to boot, ya, Im serious.

If you have a plausible explanation why Hemsky is still an Oiler please share it with us.

Keep in mind the return for Horcoff was a #7 (or worse) dman and a 7th round pick, so its not like Mact was asking for the moon.

not saying this is the case but a couple plausible explanations could be that mact has a trade in line with two teams but one is offering a better package but wants to wait to see if they can afford him, ie they have a player about to go through arbitration.
another explanation could be he has a trade in a place with a team but the player agreed upon has a ntc and is trying to be convinced to waive it for the oilers.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

:

I don't need to watch ****ing practice. I watch the ****ing games. And anybody who has watched the games over the last decade knows that Hemsky has left everything on the ice for this team. Anybody saying otherwise doesn't have a clue.

Are you going to honestly tell me that in the last 3 years you have NEVER seen Hemsky dogging it out there? That he has busted his ass every shift? If this was the case then they should've ripped the C off of Horcoff's chest and placed in on Hemsky's. His practice habits have been in question and part of being a great player in putting in the time to get better and to lead by example. Hemsky has dogged it at times of that I have no doubt in my mind.

 

[McArthur]

Considering Mact openly declared Hemsky to be "on the move", along with Horcoff, and Horcoff was the only guy he could find a taker for, with a higher cap hit and one extra year on his deal to boot, ya, Im serious.

If you have a plausible explanation why Hemsky is still an Oiler please share it with us.

Keep in mind the return for Horcoff was a #7 (or worse) dman and a 7th round pick, so its not like Mact was asking for the moon.

That by itself should be a solid wake up call for #83

 

[Bryanbryoil]

not saying this is the case but a couple plausible explanations could be that mact has a trade in line with two teams but one is offering a better package but wants to wait to see if they can afford him, ie they have a player about to go through arbitration.
another explanation could be he has a trade in a place with a team but the player agreed upon has a ntc and is trying to be convinced to waive it for the oilers.

Possible but I really doubt it TBH. I hope that you are right.

 

[McQuixote]

If you have a plausible explanation why Hemsky is still an Oiler please share it with us.

I suspect that the offered returns for Hemsky weren't good enough. This team is better with Hemsky on it than with nothing or a banger in his place. Our offensive depth beyond the top lines is next to zero and our bottom-6 scoring is less than that. I can imagine most teams being reluctant to take on a high-cap hit for an injury-prone skill player unless they dumped something in return, but this is still a guy whose been putting up okay offensive numbers when he's on the ice. I think a lot of teams would take him, but they wouldn't invest much in getting him at this point of the season.

If the options available to the Oilers back in June/July were
- trade Hemsky for next to nothing now and leave the hole in the roster
- keep Hemsky with an eye on moving him at the trade deadline if necessary (or simply using him this season in a modified role)

then the latter is obviously preferable. If he's healthy, he'll return more than Zack Smith at the trade deadline. Or save the Oilers the cost of picking up a playoff rental of their own.

 

[Captain Catatomic]

Theres dozens more seriously injury-damaged NHL superstars out there who make more money than Hemsky.

I don't necessarily buy his injury history/caphit as a hinderance on his trade value.

 

[I am the Liquor]

I suspect that the offered returns for Hemsky weren't good enough. This team is better with Hemsky on it than with nothing or a banger in his place. Our offensive depth beyond the top lines is next to zero and our bottom-6 scoring is less than that. I can imagine most teams being reluctant to take on a high-cap hit for an injury-prone skill player unless they dumped something in return, but this is still a guy whose been putting up okay offensive numbers when he's on the ice. I think a lot of teams would take him, but they wouldn't invest much in getting him at this point of the season.

If the options available to the Oilers back in June/July were
- trade Hemsky for next to nothing now and leave the hole in the roster
- keep Hemsky with an eye on moving him at the trade deadline if necessary (or simply using him this season in a modified role)

then the latter is obviously preferable. If he's healthy, he'll return more than Zack Smith at the trade deadline. Or save the Oilers the cost of picking up a playoff rental of their own.

People tend to be ignoring what I believe to be a key point.

Would we be a better team with Horcoff or Larsen and a 7th round pick?

We could be one injury away from Boyd Gordon being our #1C in the first month of the season.

The Oilers gave Horcoff away for sock tape and water bottles. Im sure they would accept a similar return for Mr last on first off.

 

[McQuixote]

People tend to be ignoring what I believe to be a key point.

Would we be a better team with Horcoff or Larsen and a 7th round pick?

I would say worse. For one, Horcoff's cap hit doesn't fit. I suspect retaining Horcoff likely means not signing Gordon - due to cap problems, due to the fact that Gordon may not have come to a spot where there wasn't a clear prestige role for him when he had other options, or both.

I think we're a better team with Larsen, a 7th AND Gordon than we are with Horcoff, both now and in the long-term ('til 2015, when Horc's contract runs out).

I also think that because of that contract, there was more urgency to get rid of Horcoff and the player had less value than Hemsky. Frankly, I'm still amazed that Horcoff went without the Oilers swallowing salary.

I also think that we're a better team with Hemsky and without Horcoff than we would be without Hemsky and with Horcoff. Both on and off ice.

And I don't see much difference between being one injury away from Boyd Gordon at a 1C than being one injury away from Horcoff as a 1C. We've seen Horcoff as a 1C - it doesn't work anymore. I suspect Gordon (or Arcabello, or an out of position Hall or Perron or Eberle) won't do much worse at this point in their respective careers.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I suspect that the offered returns for Hemsky weren't good enough. This team is better with Hemsky on it than with nothing or a banger in his place. Our offensive depth beyond the top lines is next to zero and our bottom-6 scoring is less than that. I can imagine most teams being reluctant to take on a high-cap hit for an injury-prone skill player unless they dumped something in return, but this is still a guy whose been putting up okay offensive numbers when he's on the ice. I think a lot of teams would take him, but they wouldn't invest much in getting him at this point of the season.

If the options available to the Oilers back in June/July were
- trade Hemsky for next to nothing now and leave the hole in the roster
- keep Hemsky with an eye on moving him at the trade deadline if necessary (or simply using him this season in a modified role)

then the latter is obviously preferable. If he's healthy, he'll return more than Zack Smith at the trade deadline. Or save the Oilers the cost of picking up a playoff rental of their own.

If we could make that trade right now I'd be all over it, if that was the offer on the table and we turned it down in the hope of getting something better I'd call that a major fail. Chances are probably > 50% that Hemsky will be injured around the deadline since it seems to be the case every damn year for the last 3-4 years.

 

[McQuixote]

If we could make that trade right now I'd be all over it, if that was the offer on the table and we turned it down in the hope of getting something better I'd call that a major fail. Chances are probably > 50% that Hemsky will be injured around the deadline since it seems to be the case every damn year for the last 3-4 years.

Major fail? That's kind of hyperbolic. I suppose Zack Smith is better than I'm giving him credit for based on the way the fanbase has pushed for him. I just used his name as shorthand for a role player. But there doesn't seem to be a shortage of decent depth forwards on the free agent market. Teams could still build entire 3rd and 4th lines out of the players available. Good 3rd and 4th lines.

(That said, with Prospal and Grabovski and Brunner out there, there isn't a shortage of 40 point 2nd liners out there either, which also likely explains the lack of a Hemsky deal. You'd have to have a lot of faith in a bounce-back from Hemsky if would rather give up an asset for him as opposed to just signing Peter Mueller off the street for 1/2 the salary?)

 

[Soundwave]

People tend to be ignoring what I believe to be a key point.

Would we be a better team with Horcoff or Larsen and a 7th round pick?

We could be one injury away from Boyd Gordon being our #1C in the first month of the season.

The Oilers gave Horcoff away for sock tape and water bottles. Im sure they would accept a similar return for Mr last on first off.

I'd probably just rather roll with this, lol ...

Perron Hall Eberle
Hemsky Lander Yakupov
Smyth Gordon Jones
Eager Acton Jonesuu

If both Gagner and RNH were injured somehow.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Major fail? That's kind of hyperbolic. I suppose Zack Smith is better than I'm giving him credit for based on the way the fanbase has pushed for him. I just used his name as shorthand for a role player. But there doesn't seem to be a shortage of decent depth forwards on the free agent market. Teams could still build entire 3rd and 4th lines out of the players available. Good 3rd and 4th lines.

(That said, with Prospal and Grabovski and Brunner out there, there isn't a shortage of 40 point 2nd liners out there either, which also likely explains the lack of a Hemsky deal. You'd have to have a lot of faith in a bounce-back from Hemsky if would rather give up an asset for him as opposed to just signing Peter Mueller off the street for 1/2 the salary?)

You've named top 6 types that are as good as Hemsky that could be had for much cheaper, so name me bottom 6 centers as good and tough as Smith is that are available? We would be gaining a solid 3B center that hits and fights while being over 50% on draws and we'd gain about $3.2 million in cap space as well IIRC. We need these heart and soul core bottom 6 guys, IMO we lack them in a big way and MacT isn't exactly scooping them up.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'd probably just rather roll with this, lol ...

Perron Hall Eberle
Hemsky Lander Yakupov
Smyth Gordon Jones
Eager Acton Jonesuu

If both Gagner and RNH were injured somehow.

What would actually happen since we're the Oilers:

top 4 centers.....

Smyth
Gordon
Smyth
Lander/Acton

No I did not make a mistake in typing Smyth's name twice

 

[I am the Liquor]

I would say worse. For one, Horcoff's cap hit doesn't fit. I suspect retaining Horcoff likely means not signing Gordon - due to cap problems, due to the fact that Gordon may not have come to a spot where there wasn't a clear prestige role for him when he had other options, or both.

I think we're a better team with Larsen, a 7th AND Gordon than we are with Horcoff, both now and in the long-term ('til 2015, when Horc's contract runs out).

I also think that because of that contract, there was more urgency to get rid of Horcoff and the player had less value than Hemsky. Frankly, I'm still amazed that Horcoff went without the Oilers swallowing salary.

I also think that we're a better team with Hemsky and without Horcoff than we would be without Hemsky and with Horcoff. Both on and off ice.

And I don't see much difference between being one injury away from Boyd Gordon at a 1C than being one injury away from Horcoff as a 1C. We've seen Horcoff as a 1C - it doesn't work anymore. I suspect Gordon (or Arcabello, or an out of position Hall or Perron or Eberle) won't do much worse at this point in their respective careers.

Horcoff's cap hit doesnt fit but Hemsky's does? That's some specious logic there. How about moving Hemsky for a garbage package like Horcoff got and then replacing Ales with a proper third line type player similar to Gordon?

But we would have to find someone who is willing to take him first, which it seems readily apparent nobody is willing to do.

We are much deeper on RW than we are at C. But somehow moving Horcoff is good and keeping Hemsky makes sense?

 

[harpoon]

some of you people absolutely blow me away.

hemsky has been with this organization for a decade and has produced very well for most of that time. he scored one the most clutch goals this organization has seen in the last 20 years to drag this team into the playoffs in 2006 against the sharks. then proceeded to play fantastic in the stanley cup run. after that run, and the mass exodus began in edmonton, hemsky was asked to almost singlehandedly carry this teams pathetic offense for the next 3 years while having no protection from douchbags like regeher, who headhunted him without fear of retribution. so understandably injuries started to take their toll on hemsky, who always went to the tough areas to produce points. now that the oilers have some shiny new toys, hemsky's being discarded by the organization, and especially the fans, he pretty much destroyed his body for. that's some nice ****in loyalty, i'd be pissed off too if i were him. it's a joke.

it might be different if he wasn't an effective player, but when healthy he can still be very effective. it makes no difference with this fanbase though, they read a couple ****** articles from a ****** reporter and label him a cancer without any actual knowledge of what he really is like inside the locker room.

Bravo sir .... well said - especially the bit about the shiny new toys. Some fans on this board have memories like fleas.

 

[AJGass4]

Hemsky does have enough talent to make a difference in a game. Horcoff does not. His play has not been good since 2006 and he even knows it.

Hemsky has taken a beating by opposing teams over and over again. He has been injured as well but I think there is more to it than that.

There was something wrong in that dressing room last season and I don't know who the trouble makers were, but I don't think Hemmer was one of them. He only has a year left and if he plays well, his return will be much higher at the trade deadline than any other time in his career. His salary is too much right now and it makes it hard to trade him to a team with many being strapped.

I would have been happy to get a good return this summer, but if I was the GM, I am not going to give him away just to get rid of him. The only problem I've ever had with him is the fact that he seems to pout. If he wants out, he'll have to play hard and make teams want him.

 

[thinlizzy]

Despite optimism about RNH's shoulder, our top two lines to start the year could be:

Hall-Gagner-Yakupov
Eberle-Perron-Hemsky

I was thinking this with RNH not starting the season as well. I would also give Hall some center/face off duties just in case. If Hemsky can get hot maybe we can move his tush around X mas when half the salary is gone or wait until trade deadline.

 

[Oiltankjob Fail]

Regardless to what happens to Hemsky sure enjoyed watching his skill over the years, and will really miss those all world dangles.

 

[Aerchon]

Are you going to honestly tell me that in the last 3 years you have NEVER seen Hemsky dogging it out there? That he has busted his ass every shift? If this was the case then they should've ripped the C off of Horcoff's chest and placed in on Hemsky's. His practice habits have been in question and part of being a great player in putting in the time to get better and to lead by example. Hemsky has dogged it at times of that I have no doubt in my mind.

I wouldn't be able to say "never" but Hemsky has really upped his compete level the last few years. He has been fighting very hard out there night in and night out, I think you would have to be blind not to see that.

As for practices. I don't watch those. Don't know anyone who does. But this stuff about Hemsky being lazy at practice has only come up the last year. Which makes me think it is BS. But since I don't watch the practices I don't actually know.

Horcoff as out Captain was a joke. That guy didn't show for seasons and still kept our C. Management f'd up with his contract badly and just tried to make the best out of a bad situation. Iron clad no movement clause @ 5.5 mill on a guy who at points in his career led the league in minus... *** joke.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I wouldn't be able to say "never" but Hemsky has really upped his compete level the last few years. He has been fighting very hard out there night in and night out, I think you would have to be blind not to see that.

As for practices. I don't watch those. Don't know anyone who does. But this stuff about Hemsky being lazy at practice has only come up the last year. Which makes me think it is BS. But since I don't watch the practices I don't actually know.

Horcoff as out Captain was a joke. That guy didn't show for seasons and still kept our C. Management f'd up with his contract badly and just tried to make the best out of a bad situation. Iron clad no movement clause @ 5.5 mill on a guy who at points in his career led the league in minus... *** joke.

I have seen Hemsky coasting far too many times for it to be nonexistent, '11-12 was unbearable. As for the practice stuff it has been around a lot longer than a year and is likely closer to 2-3 years ago (that it's been out in the media) IIRC. I don't disagree on Horcoff but I'm just saying that Hemsky does not set the kind of examples off or even on the ice to be considered a leader here. That said he was better earlier in the season before getting hurt than he has been since '10-11, but his decision making and causing offsides were less than great to watch.

 

[Aerchon]

I have seen Hemsky coasting far too many times for it to be nonexistent, '11-12 was unbearable. As for the practice stuff it has been around a lot longer than a year and is likely closer to 2-3 years ago (that it's been out in the media) IIRC. I don't disagree on Horcoff but I'm just saying that Hemsky does not set the kind of examples off or even on the ice to be considered a leader here. That said he was better earlier in the season before getting hurt than he has been since '10-11, but his decision making and causing offsides were less than great to watch.

I am a Hemsky fan and I can tell you it drove me nuts to see him give up on the play as soon as it turned down ice. Very frustrating... However, that was a long time ago, before he got injured and then some. You sure you are not just remembering from further back because you cant shake that memory?

It used to happen too frequently. It very rarely has happened for a long while now.

And the practice stuff was a lot more recent. lol. I remember seeing it for the first time on here when he was doing his contract negotiations... that's only a year ago.

His on ice compete is defiantly worthy of leadership. Not a letter level, but still solid. Off ice I would assume not, he was always quiet.

His offsides this last year were terrible. Skating along the blue line... wtf. lol.

He just hasn't reached the level everyone thought he would and offensively even took a step back.

But one thing that just isn't true, and that is that Hemsky doesn't have enough talent. The guy has tons of talent. I think he just needs some new scenery.

 

[russ99]

Let's say we buy out Hemsky. Who could we realistically add for that $5M that could give us the production Hemsky could?

And before you go after trade candidates, who do we really have to trade? Marincin and next years 1st rounder won't bring back much.

Also, you can count out RFAs, as we won't be signing players to an offer sheet anytime soon. As for Grabovski, he's not going to take a big pay cut and he won't sign to be a 3rd liner.

IMO, keep Hemsky on the roster and lets see if his health and team play(under Eakins) catch up to his skill, and he'll help us win games and his trade value could jump to a more realistic level at the deadline.

 

[T-Funk]

Let's say we buy out Hemsky. Who could we realistically add for that $5M that could give us the production Hemsky could?

And before you go after trade candidates, who do we really have to trade? Marincin and next years 1st rounder won't bring back much.

Also, you can count out RFAs, as we won't be signing players to an offer sheet anytime soon. As for Grabovski, he's not going to take a big pay cut and he won't sign to be a 3rd liner.

IMO, keep Hemsky on the roster and lets see if his health and team play(under Eakins) catch up to his skill, and he'll help us win games and his trade value could jump to a more realistic level at the deadline.

We did have an opportunity to turn Hemsky's caphit into a little toughness and more veteran play in the bottom 6. I would have gladly signed Brendan Morrow and/or someone not named Lander or Acton or Miller. We are somehow almost at the cap right now with a team that might not make the playoffs, and regardless of replacing his production on the THIRD LINE it would have been nice to have some money to spend just in case.

 

[Billybaroo*]

We did have an opportunity to turn Hemsky's caphit into a little toughness and more veteran play in the bottom 6. I would have gladly signed Brendan Morrow and/or someone not named Lander or Acton or Miller. We are somehow almost at the cap right now with a team that might not make the playoffs, and regardless of replacing his production on the THIRD LINE it would have been nice to have some money to spend just in case.

If you watched Morrow at all in the last 18 months you would notice he is AWFUL. Just brutal.