Should Ilya Kovalchuk be inducted to the HHOF?

[Nick Hansen]

If you hate the HHOF so much, why do you want your favorite player enshrined?

The HHOF is still a stamp of approval in a way, even though crap like Housley and Andreychuk is in there. I want Kovy to be recognized for what a great player he was.

 

[MXD]

It seems wrong to lump Hawerchuck in that group though. Even Federko to a certain extent.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

NHL.com - Stats

Leo Boivin: -212
Howell: -152
Federko: -131
Hawerchuck: -98
Gadbsy: -62
Bathgate: -60
Housley: -53
etc....

Maybe some of those had their prime before the nhl start recording them, but there is some -100 type career in the Hall.

Hey, I challenged Nick Hansen to find them.

No fair.

And I stand corrected. (though I didn't know they had +/- that far back)

 

[CokenoPepsi]

No I would not put him in.

Hall of Fame talent, just not hall of fame career.

 

[jetsfan91]

Nope Ilya is pretty overrated

 

[GlitchMarner]

Highest I could find out of the Hall

Bondra/Heatley: 6 times
Tkachuk/Rick Martin/Corey Perry/Tim Kerr: 5 times
Hossa: 4times

Good separation

LeClair had six as well.

 

[GlitchMarner]

There are already players with terrible looking plus/minus ratings in the HHOF.

As for Ziggy: He was +83 in his career despite playing on the terrible Isles and the unspectacular Kings.

 

[sr edler]

Olympic Gold
Olympic MVP
Maurice Richard Trophy
WHC Gold (including GWG)
WHC MVP (the same year)

This is some pretty weak stuff, especially in context.

816 games and 816 pts in the NHL
Five top-10 finishes in points

This is better, but needs some context.

If you hate the HHOF so much, why do you want your favorite player enshrined?

Good question. HHOF has had so many suspect inductions lately I almost feel like I want to get my favorite player out of there.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Rocket
1st AST
2nd AST
8x top 10 in goals
5x top 10 in pts

Don't think anyone with a comparable resume is out so a pretty easy yes. The thing about Kovy imo is he's really under appreciated because OV was around at the same time and had one of the best peaks ever.

 

[sr edler]

A single Rocket is not a great first argument, especially not when you tie it with two other players in a relatively weak transition era for scoring.

 

[Howie Hodge]

I mean he's not even retired yet!!

 

[grentthealien]

Well he is planning to return to the NHL so who knows if he can be as good as say Radulov has been and play until his late 30s he might be able to eclipse a few milestones and get to 1000 points which will help his case. I don’t think he’d be a first ballot inductee , but a he could get in as a 2nd option in a weaker year.

 

[Bustedprospect]

Now when his return is pretty much a given i would say its almost a guarantee that he gets into the hall. Had he not returned i think it would have been way harder.

Ilya is in great shape and still looked great albeit against weak competition in Russia and on the international stage.

Let's say he plays 3-4 more years since he is 100% into the money these days. A pretty good deal for a contender to sign him on shorter contracts since he got some gas left in the tank.

The current crop of future Hall of Famers isn't even that strong. He will make one of those classes easily even though he could wait a few years. Could end up with a cup with some luck, 500 goals, 1000 points, 5x Top5 points, many times high in scoring as well as his international resume.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Those post-lockout top-10 finishes saw him finish 3-4 touchdowns back from the leader, so it's not like he was a perpetual threat to a scoring race - let alone an occasional one.

Two 2nd-place and nine 3rd-place votes for the Hart in his career. Even his 2nd-place scoring finish in a year when no one but Forsberg put up good numbers resulted in just a 2nd Team selection behind Naslund and a handful of skaters and a half-dozen goaltenders being more praised. Is there a less heralded runner-up season in the last quarter-century?

Even his 1st Team in 2012 might have been tight if James Neal wasn't splitting votes on both wings.

On the surface, he's got the bulletpoints of a HOFer, but on close inspection, they're the dime-store version of what those bulletpoints are supposed to represent - right down to this Olympic Gold and MVP.

 

[Goleafsgo95]

Yes.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Those post-lockout top-10 finishes saw him finish 3-4 touchdowns back from the leader, so it's not like he was a perpetual threat to a scoring race - let alone an occasional one.

Two 2nd-place and nine 3rd-place votes for the Hart in his career. Even his 2nd-place scoring finish in a year when no one but Forsberg put up good numbers resulted in just a 2nd Team selection behind Naslund and a handful of skaters and a half-dozen goaltenders being more praised. Is there a less heralded runner-up season in the last quarter-century?

Even his 1st Team in 2012 might have been tight if James Neal wasn't splitting votes on both wings.

On the surface, he's got the bulletpoints of a HOFer, but on close inspection, they're the dime-store version of what those bulletpoints are supposed to represent - right down to this Olympic Gold and MVP.

Speaking of 2012, the Devils players voted Zach Parise, not Kovalchuk, team MVP in 2012.

 

[thedoughboy]

The Devil's advocate side of the debate says that:
He was given a whopping 6 minutes of PP time per game on that rubbish team and allowed to do whatever he wanted to pad his personal stats, at the expense of team success.

Are these separate statements or are you saying he had free reign to pad his stats on the powerplay?

Either way, please explain to me how that is his fault. That is a coaching decision to me, and if the coach gave him free reign it was for a reason. Sure I will never give kovy credit for even THINKING of the defensive zone, but a coach forcing him to do so (Bowman with yzerman anybody?) could have improved his defensive stats theoretically.

Look at Kane vs. Toews, different players used under different circumstances.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Rocket
1st AST
2nd AST
8x top 10 in goals
5x top 10 in pts

Don't think anyone with a comparable resume is out so a pretty easy yes. The thing about Kovy imo is he's really under appreciated because OV was around at the same time and had one of the best peaks ever.

i feel the same way. if a very similar player, from the same country, didn't come along right after he started and eclipse him in every way, we would think a lot higher of kovalchuk.

just even looking at placements, with no ovechkin, kovalchuk's goal scoring finishes are: 1, 1, 3, 3, 5, 5, 7, 7. but i think more substantially, with no ovechkin, you have a very good argument for kovalchuk being the best goal scorer of the period between the lockouts. the only person you could possibly make an argument for is stamkos, but he only has three seasons, as impressive as finishes of 1, 2, 1 are in those seasons, and his goals/game is only 0.1 higher than kovalchuk's.

HHOF has had so many suspect inductions lately I almost feel like I want to get my favorite player out of there.

don't worry. alex edler won't make the HHOf.

i don't have strong feelings one way or the other about kovalchuk in the HHOF. but if at the end of the day phil kessel is in and kovalchuk is out, that feels wrong to me.

 

[sr edler]

alex edler won't make the HHOf.

I still believe he'll turn it around and become the next Lidström. Except with a few "tainted" seasons.

 

[thedoughboy]

I still believe he'll turn it around and become the next Lidström. Except with a few "tainted" seasons.

Thats.... awfully optimistic of you.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I still believe he'll turn it around and become the next Lidström. Except with a few "tainted" seasons.

salming... there's still time

 

[frisco]

Kovalchuk's in if he would have stayed in the league. Bolting to Russia clinches a "no" vote. That's the way it is.

My Best-Carey

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Kovalchuk's in if he would have stayed in the league. Bolting to Russia clinches a "no" vote. That's the way it is.

My Best-Carey

Kovalchuk = a modern day Carl Brewer or JC Tremblay?

 

[Sentinel]

I was never a huge fan of his. All the tools but no toolbox. With time he did become more of a clutch scorer, but still few and far in between.

In other words, I will not be crying if he is left out.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Kovalchuk's in if he would have stayed in the league. Bolting to Russia clinches a "no" vote. That's the way it is.

My Best-Carey

Honestly, I think that makes him more memorable.