Post-Game Talk: Should have traded for more D instead.

[GOilers88]

The doom and gloom around here is just getting to be too much. I see quite a few people who were talking about the game being over last night during the first intermission.

Mike Smith finally has a bad game for the first time in weeks and people are all over him.

Like, I f***ing dare some of you guys to be positive even when the team stumbles a bit. I don't think a good chunk of posters could do it and I can't figure out why they bother to follow the team at all.

 

[Emotive]

Cali reffing and game management aside, you don’t win in this league against any team by only playing 30 minutes of hockey. After that abysmal first period I’m glad they at least turned it around and stole a point.

- Ennis looks like a stud, he’s clearly pumped to play here and I hope his effort continues
- AA looked good as well, smart play by him on that goal to drive the net and keep his eye on the puck, good awareness
- Chiasson should never play on the 2nd line or PP ever again, there has to be someone we can call up to play on that line that isn’t completely useless, right?
- Sheahan and Archie shouldn’t be split up, they feed off each other well and form a solid line with whoever the are paired with
- Bear continues to get better every game, Nurse seems to be getting worse, we really miss Klefbom.

Hoping for a solid effort tonight now that the new guys are settled in and a hard fought battle with Vegas in a very important game!

 

[Oil Dood]

Sure is weird how the defense always falls apart the exact moment it loses Oscar Klefbom.

(It's actually not weird at all)

Unfortunatly I think Klefbom has been a negative factor five on five this year, but he eats a lot of minutes. We are down to 3 top 4 defenders right now.....take out any one of them(except Larrson maybe) and we will not do spectacular.

The advantage we have though is that our defense has not been horrible at all(our PK has been amongst the best in the league all season). When our defense struggles the chances are it is a breakdown from a forward that causes it, our defense is pretty tight overall.

 

[oXo Cube]

The doom and gloom around here is just getting to be too much. I see quite a few people who were talking about the game being over last night during the first intermission.

Mike Smith finally has a bad game for the first time in weeks and people are all over him.

Like, I f*cking dare some of you guys to be positive even when the team stumbles a bit. I don't think a good chunk of posters could do it and I can't figure out why they bother to follow the team at all.

No kidding, and it's not even like an OTL is really a bad result at this stage in the game. If the Oilers go .500 the rest of the way they will finish with 93 points, which is mathematically a 97% chance at a playoff spot.

People need to chillax a little.

 

[K1984]

Nurse was very disappointing.... I can't believe how often he makes mistakes with zero IQ

This is what you're gonna get with him now in perpetuity barring a rare turnaround for a D man this far into his career. The incredibly poor gap control is especially concerning, mostly because with his skating ability having a good gap should not be a problem. He flat out isn't a smart hockey player. A 6th defenseman with exceptional skating ability being the only real thing propelling him to top 4.

He's going to survive if he plays 22-24 mins max against secondary competition. He will get his skull kicked in playing top pair minutes, or in any role that requires him to make quick and accurate plays with the puck.

 

[Jesus Take the Wheel]

- Chiasson should never play on the 2nd line or PP ever again, there has to be someone we can call up to play on that line that isn’t completely useless, right?

Benson would be the choice but I don't think Tipp trusts him enough defensively

 

[nexttothemoon]

I'm just going to drop this here and then stand back because I know it will get flamed to hell and back... but here's the Oilers record each year with Matt Benning in the lineup...

16/17 32-22-8
17/18 34-34-5
18/19 32-20-8
19/20 22-10-5

Career: 120-96-26

Team without him over that 4 season stretch: 31-30-6

Now obviously Matt Benning doesn't win games on his own... but I think he's a solid, stabilizing player on his pairing and some will say it's pure luck that the team has better results with him in the lineup but I think he helps the entire d-group by default when his pairing is solid.

+33 on this team over his career is a minor miracle as well.

 

[FlameChampion]

Unpopular opinion: While McDavid is still a plus in that game, and we wouldn't have got the point without him, he had a couple of very bad moments at the end of the game. That lost coverage with 2 minutes left in the 3rd was almost the 4-3 losing goal, he let the ducks have an A+ tip-in chance that should never happen with that kind of time left. Even I know that you take your man in that situation. And then while the OT penalty was BS, the fact is that he got lazy on his coverage, lost body position and used his stick instead of his body to try to slow a guy up. Not a penalty, but the fact that he's not dialed in defensively there is the real problem. I love him, but honestly he has another level he can go to. And if we make the playoffs, he will need to go to that level.

Unfortunately hes been like this for the majority of the year. He hasnt been dialed in to playing defense for good portions of the year. I think hes been more dialed in after the new year but his defensive lapses happen too often. I think part of it is injury related, hes reluctant to engage physically on players. Hes always been prone to fly bys but I think hes been better defensively in previous seasons. There is an enormous pressure on him to produce due to lack of talent on the roster, so I think some of the fly bys should be expected. Heres hoping to the Oilers getting some better players and putting together a better roster in the past, that he wont feel so much pressure to carry the team because hes getting more help and he can play a more 2 way game.

 

[phrenssoa]

The reffing was fine last night. You guys complain too much.

 

[CupofOil]

It's a combination of this and the constant bias/agendas.

Two people can watch the same player play the same game and come out of it with the complete opposite opinion because both of them are seeing what they want to see.

The difference here is that this anti Smith bias is without any merit whatsoever. Maybe it's because he's unconventional and makes people nervous because of that but when you lose one regulation game in 2 months, you're doing something right.

 

[bucks_oil]

I'm just going to drop this here and then stand back because I know it will get flamed to hell and back... but here's the Oilers record each year with Matt Benning in the lineup...

16/17 32-22-8
17/18 34-34-5
18/19 32-20-8
19/20 22-10-5

Career: 120-96-26

Team without him over that 4 season stretch: 31-30-6

Now obviously Matt Benning doesn't win games on his own... but I think he's a solid, stabilizing player on his pairing and some will say it's pure luck that the team has better results with him in the lineup but I think he helps the entire d-group by default when his pairing is solid.

+33 on this team over his career is a minor miracle as well.

I can't flame this... the stats are compelling and I've been repeatedly impressed with his ability to come out on the positive. It certainly doesn't pass the eye-test individually, but perhaps having him healthy provides stability to the bottom pairing, allowing all boats to float?

 

[nabob]

This is what you're gonna get with him now in perpetuity barring a rare turnaround for a D man this far into his career. The incredibly poor gap control is especially concerning, mostly because with his skating ability having a good gap should not be a problem. He flat out isn't a smart hockey player. A 6th defenseman with exceptional skating ability being the only real thing propelling him to top 4.

He's going to survive if he plays 22-24 mins max against secondary competition. He will get his skull kicked in playing top pair minutes, or in any role that requires him to make quick and accurate plays with the puck.

22-24 minutes a game is top pairing minutes on most teams...

 

[GOilers88]

I'm just going to drop this here and then stand back because I know it will get flamed to hell and back... but here's the Oilers record each year with Matt Benning in the lineup...

16/17 32-22-8
17/18 34-34-5
18/19 32-20-8
19/20 22-10-5

Career: 120-96-26

Team without him over that 4 season stretch: 31-30-6

Now obviously Matt Benning doesn't win games on his own... but I think he's a solid, stabilizing player on his pairing and some will say it's pure luck that the team has better results with him in the lineup but I think he helps the entire d-group by default when his pairing is solid.

+33 on this team over his career is a minor miracle as well.

I don't know why the guy has consistently been shat on by a lot of posters, but the dude is absolutely a positive for this team when kept in a 5/6 role. It's perfect for his skill level and he plays the role really well.

 

[alphahelix]

That’s why the Green addition is a little perplexing.. Is a near-retirement Green better than Benning? I’m sceptical. And its crunch time out there.

If somebody was pushing rookie Lagesson on the left side it would be a different story.

 

[Aerchon]

It doesn't work because both players revert back to simply coasting, being nonchalant and all too casual. The only reason they 'worked' together was because Yamo always hustled and that forced those 2 to support and thus move their legs. Perhaps if you plugged someone that plays like Yamo, they'd be better but as it stands, those 2 are simply going back to pre-Yamo play.

I don't agree but I get where you are coming from.

Nuge and Draisaitl has not even been tried much at all besides this last bit with Yamamoto. Nuge plays well with most anyone generally speaking, the more talented the better.

When Kassian comes back i would put him with Nuge and Draisaitl. Both Yama and Kassian are aggressive on the forecheck and that is a key element to that lines success. If not Kassian then maybe he goes back with McDavid and Ennis moves to their line.

I don't lik3 moving Archibald off a line with Sheahan but he is pretty aggressive on he forecheck as well. Didn't work last night but might improve next game.

 

[FromChaos22]

Bear taking PP1 time, so Green is truly there just for depth?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Bear taking PP1 time, so Green is truly there just for depth?

I mean it was game one, I think Green will probably move of to the 1st PP unit, but I think they're still going to have Bear there until they get some practice time.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Some more stats on Benning...


Team record when Benning plays more than 17 minutes per night: 33-45-9
Team record when Benning plays less than 17 minutes per night: 87-51-17

Now some will point to that and say... see Benning is shit when he plays big minutes and he's not a top 4 dman... and the team suffers when he's put into that role.

But look at that team record when Benning is put into a position and role where he can play to the best of his abilities and other players seem to be able to play their roles better as well.

Again some will say that's pure luck/coincidence/voodoo... but I believe that giving players the correct roles/ice time helps to make a team become better than the sum of its parts because of that and I think this is a pretty solid case to support that.

The correlation in those stats is hard to ignore.

 

[frag2]

I don't agree but I get where you are coming from.

Nuge and Draisaitl has not even been tried much at all besides this last bit with Yamamoto. Nuge plays well with most anyone generally speaking, the more talented the better.

When Kassian comes back i would put him with Nuge and Draisaitl. Both Yama and Kassian are aggressive on the forecheck and that is a key element to that lines success. If not Kassian then maybe he goes back with McDavid and Ennis moves to their line.

I don't lik3 moving Archibald off a line with Sheahan but he is pretty aggressive on he forecheck as well. Didn't work last night but might improve next game.

The problem with Nuge is his game is predicated on being extremely safe which in turn leads to just puck dumping and chasing and loss of possession. Drai doesn't skate hard unless he's 'motivated' to which is a joke really because he shouldn't need to be 'motivated' if he was a consummate professional. Those 2 dont work unless there's someone constantly forcing them to join in on the forecheck like a Yamo or McD. It was my biggest fear when Yamo went down because, as shown yesterday, neither Nuge nor Drai really amounted to much of anything for their line. No idea why both guys tend to stop skating

I'm not so sure about Kassian working there either. Lately, Kassian seems to think he's a skill player and tries to over complicate things.

 

[McDNicks17]

Some more stats on Benning...


Team record when Benning plays more than 17 minutes per night: 33-45-9
Team record when Benning plays less than 17 minutes per night: 87-51-17

Now some will point to that and say... see Benning is shit when he plays big minutes and he's not a top 4 dman... and the team suffers when he's put into that role.

But look at that team record when Benning is put into a position and role where he can play to the best of his abilities and other players seem to be able to play their roles better as well.

Again some will say that's pure luck/coincidence/voodoo... but I believe that giving players the correct roles/ice time helps to make a team become better than the sum of its part because of that and I think this is a pretty solid case to support that.

The correlation in those stats is hard to ignore.

I think that makes sense though, doesn't it?

If he plays less than 17 minutes, that means they likely have a healthy lineup and at that point they're winning games because of the guys ahead of him more so than because he's playing third pairing minutes.

 

[nexttothemoon]

I think that makes sense though, doesn't it?

If he plays less than 17 minutes, that means they likely have a healthy lineup and at that point they're winning games because of the guys ahead of him more so than because he's playing third pairing minutes.

Sure there's likely some of that as well... but again...

Team without him over that 4 season stretch: 31-30-6


Team record when Benning plays 19+ minutes: 21-21-3


Benning and the team seem to shit the bed the most when he's playing bigger minutes in general... but drilling down even more finely... especially when he's playing 16.5-19.5 minutes per night where the team record is 22-36-7 so my analysis of that is when he's basically expected to play anchor on the 2nd pairing (or a mushier less defined offensive/defensive role in the top 4) is when the team and Benning seem to be at their worst.

Clearly Benning (and the team) benefit the most when he plays lower minutes (team excels as well).

Oilers basically tread water when he plays bigger minutes ie depending on him for a more clearly defined role in the top pairing/top 4 but when he's playing 2nd pairing "mushy" minutes that's when he's at his worst and the team suffers the most as well.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's a combination of this and the constant bias/agendas.

Two people can watch the same player play the same game and come out of it with the complete opposite opinion because both of them are seeing what they want to see.

You've apparently described the human perception condition. But I can't be too sure..

 

[MaxR11]

Unpopular opinion: While McDavid is still a plus in that game, and we wouldn't have got the point without him, he had a couple of very bad moments at the end of the game. That lost coverage with 2 minutes left in the 3rd was almost the 4-3 losing goal, he let the ducks have an A+ tip-in chance that should never happen with that kind of time left. Even I know that you take your man in that situation. And then while the OT penalty was BS, the fact is that he got lazy on his coverage, lost body position and used his stick instead of his body to try to slow a guy up. Not a penalty, but the fact that he's not dialed in defensively there is the real problem. I love him, but honestly he has another level he can go to. And if we make the playoffs, he will need to go to that level.

It really shouldn't be an unpopular opinion. It's fact. He's one of the more lax and poor defensive forwards on the team. It's just part of his natural mindset. He's always looking for the easy turnover and is leaning towards the offensive side of the puck to cheat.

A lot of puck battles he gets in he's reaching in and leaning away to get a jump and separation away from the battle. Sometimes he'll win the battle and he's sprung because of it but he loses a bunch of those battles because he's basically just putting his stick in there trying for the easy takeaway instead of getting his nose over the puck and using his body to win the battle. When he does this sometimes he wins a lot of battles.

I was livid when Connor allowed that ducks player in for the tip late in the third with a crucial game tied 3-3!! CANNOT do this as a captain. SImple simple coverage there. He again was thinking more about intercepting a pass with space to wheel up instead of getting grindy and tying up the man in close (which makes it hard or impossible to steal and wheel).

I honestly think Connor's lax and bit of irresponsible 200ft play affects the team negatively. He's a great player and if he's on, he'll always be a positive player even if he plays this way but it's not a good example. Plus the times he's not as on offensively and plays this way he definitely becomes a negative player (we saw this in December). I don't think it's shocking that when he was out this team played with more effort, urgency and proper attention to details defensively. When he got back they mimicked his play/effort a bit. I honestly think Drai has been much better overall because he's on his own line now and not as influenced by Connor.

Great player Connor is, but he needs to buckle down, be a better example. I've seen how Crosby gets super upset on the bench when he even makes a poor defensive read once in a while even if it doesn't lead to a goal. Connor needs to have that same standard when it comes to his defensive play and 200ft game.

 

[duul]

You've apparently described the human perception condition. But I can't be too sure..

Ehn...from my perspective...it looks a whole lot different than that...

 

[oXo Cube]

You've apparently described the human perception condition. But I can't be too sure..

It's not a bias issue if you just take the contrarian position for the sake of it, mate.