Should have let Nylander sit or traded him for defense.

[Maplebeasts]

You do realize that I agree with Roberts and was mocking the Nylander fan club, right?

Roberts said that the Nylander camp underestimated how negatively it would affect his play to sit out for two months. The Nylander fan club on this board seems to disagree with Roberts. They're claiming that Nylander has been amazing since he returned, and has just been "unlukcy".

No we haven't said he's been amazing. This is 100% disingenuous. We're saying the underlying numbers are good enough and that he has the track record to assume that the sky isn't falling. It's not our fault you're panicking over a player that in all likelihood will turn out fine.

 

[Nithoniniel]

So who would you list as more expensive comparables? Draisaitl, ...?

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2018/11/28014621/nylander-comparables.png

Draisaitl isn't even on the list, but you could make a case that he's a comparable as well. By the point that Draisaitl had as many PP and ES minutes as Nylander ended up with, he had 60 points. That was while playing with McDavid. Edmonton loaded up their PP unit, put Draisaitl there, got many more PPs than we did, and as a result he also produced even gaudier point totals.

 

[Notsince67]

Does it matter any longer who Nylander compares with dollar wise now that he's signed?
I just want him to earn the money he's getting.

I'm hoping for a lot less. I want him to earn what he should have been paid.

 

[ACC1224]

No we haven't said he's been amazing. This is 100% disingenuous. We're saying the underlying numbers are good enough and that he has the track record to assume that the sky isn't falling. It's not our fault you're panicking over a player that in all likelihood will turn out fine.

I agree he will be fine. Not sure if 'amazing ' has been used but it has been said many times that he's been fantastic, one of the Teams best players, since his return.

 

[ACC1224]

I'm hoping for a lot less. I want him to earn what he should have been paid.

No going back now.

 

[Notsince67]

No going back now.

You misunderstand. I would be happy with a 60 point scoring rate. I am not expecting 70+ points

 

[meefer]

You do realize that I agree with Roberts and was mocking the Nylander fan club, right?

Roberts said that the Nylander camp underestimated how negatively it would affect his play to sit out for two months. The Nylander fan club on this board seems to disagree with Roberts. They're claiming that Nylander has been amazing since he returned, and has just been "unlukcy".

I'm not sure that using Roberts' words to mock anyone is useful if you're being selective in what words you use. Roberts goes on to say that he believes that Nylander's abilities will soon sync with his team and his hope to play better hockey. It's a two edged sword Roberts' is wielding, and I'd suggest neither edge is being used to mock WN, simply to explain why the results haven't been what was hoped for at this point. I also can't remember anyone on this board claiming that Nylander has been amazing. There have been comments that point to his very good zone exits and entries, perhaps a few other stats to support the player, but nowhere have I seen anyone say that their even satisfied by what he's presented. They believe he can contribute more, argue that his underlying statistics support the idea that he's catching up with the players who've been at it since September and that soon he will be producing at a rate more in line with his contract. I hope they're right, otherwise...yikes.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2018/11/28014621/nylander-comparables.png

Draisaitl isn't even on the list, but you could make a case that he's a comparable as well. By the point that Draisaitl had as many PP and ES minutes as Nylander ended up with, he had 60 points. That was while playing with McDavid. Edmonton loaded up their PP unit, put Draisaitl there, got many more PPs than we did, and as a result he also produced even gaudier point totals.

Show me the chart with goals.

 

[RLF]

I'm hoping for a lot less. I want him to earn what he should have been paid.

That's kind of a backhanded compliment to Willy.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Show me the chart with goals.

Or further vet it to show who played on quality playoff teams in those years with quality talent surrounding him, or just show the last year heading into FA instead of multiple (alot of players production jumped in that year, Nylander's didn't)...

...then show who got to play shotgun for Auston Matthews for those 2 years and it's a list of just Willie boy.

 

[RLF]

No we haven't said he's been amazing. This is 100% disingenuous. We're saying the underlying numbers are good enough and that he has the track record to assume that the sky isn't falling. It's not our fault you're panicking over a player that in all likelihood will turn out fine.

He has the skill and should be fine...That said, he should have been fine by now, I think all should be able to agree on that.

The problem I have with the use of two seasons of previous stats is that we are always preached to about sample size etc etc. If he was in his fifth year and someone looks at the first two years of his career and says what about the first two years, it would depend on how much someone likes the player whether it matters or not. Like now.

When Teravainen was brought up today, the problem was that he only has 1 60+pt season and on his way to his second. Wasn't established enough player.
It did not matter that his previous years all showed progression. He played his most minutes last season(identical to Willy) which helped his point production. He is a strong possession player. He plays PP. He had a low s% the two seasons prior to past...unsustainably low as said here(9.6&8.8). Last year finally 12.4. This year when signed 10.1. Right around Wily's norm for two seasons. Similar goals to assists ratio as Willy. Lower PDO player than Willy traditionally. Last year his highest at 99.7, where Willy was 104. So you could say he has been unlucky or would have produced even more last year than Willy did...like what is said about Willy now. A similar usage and production player to Willy.

So, even after Willy signs his big deal, Tera gives up 1 extra UFA year and signs for $5.4M per season and he didn't hold out to get it. They are getting full value for this player, we are not getting full value as ours sat out 30 games.

Why are they not really comparables even though their stats are almost identical?

If this was the other way around and Tera did what Willy did and got Willy's contract and Willy didn't hold out and signed Tera's contract at start of season. There is no doubt that we would hear how Carolina overpaid and we got a great deal on Willy.

 

[Menzinger]

He has the skill and should be fine...That said, he should have been fine by now, I think all should be able to agree on that.

The problem I have with the use of two seasons of previous stats is that we are always preached to about sample size etc etc. If he was in his fifth year and someone looks at the first two years of his career and says what about the first two years, it would depend on how much someone likes the player whether it matters or not. Like now.

When Teravainen was brought up today, the problem was that he only has 1 60+pt season and on his way to his second. Wasn't established enough player.
It did not matter that his previous years all showed progression. He played his most minutes last season(identical to Willy) which helped his point production. He is a strong possession player. He plays PP. He had a low s% the two seasons prior to past...unsustainably low as said here(9.6&8.8). Last year finally 12.4. This year when signed 10.1. Right around Wily's norm for two seasons. Similar goals to assists ratio as Willy. Lower PDO player than Willy traditionally. Last year his highest at 99.7, where Willy was 104. So you could say he has been unlucky or would have produced even more last year than Willy did...like what is said about Willy now. A similar usage and production player to Willy.

So, even after Willy signs his big deal, Tera gives up 1 extra UFA year and signs for $5.4M per season and he didn't hold out to get it. They are getting full value for this player, we are not getting full value as ours sat out 30 games.

Why are they not really comparables even though their stats are almost identical?

If this was the other way around and Tera did what Willy did and got Willy's contract and Willy didn't hold out and signed Tera's contract at start of season. There is no doubt that we would hear how Carolina overpaid and we got a great deal on Willy.

There’s a two year age gap between the two players. TT is 24 is firmly in a player (especially a forward’s) prime: Nylander is 22. That’s a major part of it.

 

[RLF]

There’s a two year age gap between the two players. TT is 24 is firmly in a player (especially a forward’s) prime: Nylander is 22. That’s a major part of it.

I thought this might come up, but seriously...two years older is worth less $1.6M a year when they will both be UFA at end of contract? Prime or not, it depends on how may UFA years you are buying as well at these ages.

 

[Menzinger]

I thought this might come up, but seriously...two years older is worth less $1.6M a year when they will both be UFA at end of contract? Prime or not, it depends on how may UFA years you are buying as well at these ages.

I’d say it is. Especially when one looks at how rare 60 point seasons are for 18-21 year old players. It’s a lot more impressive when a guy in that age range puts those up than an older player (hence why the market helped dictate that TT was worth less).

 

[RLF]

I’d say it is. Especially when one looks at how rare 60 point seasons are for 18-21 year old players. It’s a lot more impressive when a guy in that age range puts those up than an older player (hence why the market helped dictate that TT was worth less).

I get they are rare. Do you think Willy would have got 61 pts if his usage was the same as Tera at 21? So you are saying that even though his stats showed he should have produced more and that he is giving up 1 extra year of UFA status...that doesn't matter? It only matters that it took him two more years of age to produce those same points?

 

[Menzinger]

I get they are rare. Do you think Willy would have got 61 pts if his usage was the same as Tera at 21? So you are saying that even though his stats showed he should have produced more and that he is giving up 1 extra year of UFA status...that doesn't matter? It only matters that it took him two more years of age to produce those same points?

Did his usage matter? Sure.

But counter-factual arguments will only go so far during a contract negotiation. An agent would simply reply that’s an unanswerable “what if?” And his client ultimately hit those numbers at that age range.

TT had a weaker negotiation position and his contract reflected that. Canes caught a break.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not sure that using Roberts' words to mock anyone is useful if you're being selective in what words you use. Roberts goes on to say that he believes that Nylander's abilities will soon sync with his team and his hope to play better hockey. It's a two edged sword Roberts' is wielding, and I'd suggest neither edge is being used to mock WN, simply to explain why the results haven't been what was hoped for at this point. I also can't remember anyone on this board claiming that Nylander has been amazing. There have been comments that point to his very good zone exits and entries, perhaps a few other stats to support the player, but nowhere have I seen anyone say that their even satisfied by what he's presented. They believe he can contribute more, argue that his underlying statistics support the idea that he's catching up with the players who've been at it since September and that soon he will be producing at a rate more in line with his contract. I hope they're right, otherwise...yikes.

Sums it up for me.

 

[Faltorvo]

Nylanders most direct comparable is definitely Ehlers. Cap inflation makes it so Nylander should be paid more...But it should have been more like 6.6....

Ehlers is actually really interesting because he was going through a huge slump to start this season. Want to know how Maurice got him out of his slump? Played him with Schieffle and Wheeler and put Connor who was thriving down with Laine. So maybe instead of putting Nylander on the 4th line, give him 2 extremely talented players to play with.

Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander needs to be tried. Its getting ridiculous why is he so willing to put Brown and Hyman on their off wings but not Kappy who played their a bit on the Marlies and looked good.[/QUOT

2016-2017	NSH	80	31	30	61	16	28	4	9	5	7	6	1	246	12.6	25
2017-2018	NSH	78	29	32	61	20	36	3	8	3	3	6	1	247	11.7	33.33
2018-2019	NSH	27	19	7	26	8	16	1	1	1	1	4	0	91	20.9	18.18
Career	-	247	87	77	164	36	115	9	19	9	11	19	2	732	11.9	28.3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

Viktor Arvidsson inked for 4.25m per x 7 years

oh ya, i almost forgot,

same draft class as Melander.

 

[jrgtml67]

When Dubas caved into Nylander's outrageous salary demand, Dubas didn't think Nylander would be this rusty.

How did he cave? Nylander want 8 8.t then came down to 7.5 7.25. Literally paid him 6.9 instead of 6.5 400k is nothing at all. And the structure of the deal is easily moveable in the offseason if they so choose.

I love all this Nylander junk. What'd you all expect? I expected bit better then this BUT the whole team has stunk except for Marner, Kapenen and Andersen..rielly and Dermott have had some good some bad, same with JT but for the most part we have stunk ever since we lost Andersen, played CBJ and foligno pointed out how bad we were down low..ever since that our opponents have succeeded in making Foligno look like a genius

 

[ORRFForever]

Trade Gardner and Nylander for someone good.

 

[Funk21]

The issue is more the cap space and what he is getting paid. TT just signed a 5x5.4 and I basically think they are the same player. He should have been signed for 6-6.5 max due to inflation. I would have been brutally honest with him and his agent and say look when Matthews went down you did nothing. Furthermore Marner who bounced up and down the lineup absolutely destroyed your point total the last 45ish games. Furthermore you were invisible in the playoffs. I’m sorry your contract is getting signed before Matthews and Marner but we want you here and we see you as an essential cog in our team. It’s a hard cap and we have to ensure we can ice a strong team in all areas. If you don’t like our long term number prove it with a 2 year bridge. Otherwise you will be sitting out and we will do this again in the summer.

He has been awful but he will find his form at some point and be a 60+ point player again. I would trade him after the bonus is played next summer.

 

[Morbo]

How did he cave? Nylander want 8 8.t then came down to 7.5 7.25. Literally paid him 6.9 instead of 6.5 400k is nothing at all. And the structure of the deal is easily moveable in the offseason if they so choose.

He didn't cave. It's a myth.

 

[Bedards Dad]

Just a reminder why we love Willy.

 

[Fogelhund]

Carolina Hurricanes✔@NHLCanes
The #Canes have agreed to terms with Teuvo Teravainen on a five-year, $27 million contract extension $5.4 million cap hit. Excellent signing by Carolina, and highlights that we overpaid for Nylander.

 

[Menzinger]

Carolina Hurricanes✔@NHLCanes
The #Canes have agreed to terms with Teuvo Teravainen on a five-year, $27 million contract extension $5.4 million cap hit. Excellent signing by Carolina, and highlights that we overpaid for Nylander.

No it doesn’t. He’s two years older...

And he didn’t get 60 points until he turned 23 (a year older than nylander is at present).