Should have let Nylander sit or traded him for defense.

[meefer]

An interesting take from Gary Roberts on the Nylander situation. In short: the Nylander camp underestimated the damage that missing all the time away from the game would have on WN's ability to get his game going in the NHL. Roberts believes in Nylander's talents, but suspects that he's just approaching a time frame where his timing and chemistry with the team will allow for the positive results to show up. https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-10...try-because-of-the-time-he-s-missed-1.1245232

 

[Throw More Waffles]

An interesting take from Gary Roberts on the Nylander situation. In short: the Nylander camp underestimated the damage that missing all the time away from the game would have on WN's ability to get his game going in the NHL. Roberts believes in Nylander's talents, but suspects that he's just approaching a time frame where his timing and chemistry with the team will allow for the positive results to show up. https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-10...try-because-of-the-time-he-s-missed-1.1245232

I suppose Roberts lost the (lol) "Eye test". Hasn't he seen that Nylander has been playing (lol) amazingly, and just has "bad luck"?

 

[FMichael]

Boston paid Pastrnak as a proven 34 goal/70 point player. They didn't give him a higher contract in the "hopes he gets better." Ditto Ehlers. Ditto Teravainen. Ditto Arvedsson. Ditto Larken.

Here's the specific problem. To rationalize Nylander's contract, we have to look at the BAD contracts across the nhl as comparables and say "well... at least our GM isn't he only one who sucks".

But that doesn't take into consideration all the GOOD gm's that give out GOOD contracts. Why can't our GM be more like them? Look how HORRIBLE the Oilers have been. Why is our gm following their methods?

Toronto media, and it's fan base IMHO has the painfully obvious horrible habit of both idolizing some players, and crucifying others within the same paragraph...I've said it numerous times...The Leafs will shortly become the Blackhawks minus the 3 Cups.

 

[Dreakmur]

Boston paid Pastrnak as a proven 34 goal/70 point player. They didn't give him a higher contract in the "hopes he gets better." Ditto Ehlers. Ditto Teravainen. Ditto Arvedsson. Ditto Larken.

Here's the specific problem. To rationalize Nylander's contract, we have to look at the BAD contracts across the nhl as comparables and say "well... at least our GM isn't he only one who sucks".

But that doesn't take into consideration all the GOOD gm's that give out GOOD contracts. Why can't our GM be more like them? Look how HORRIBLE the Oilers have been. Why is our gm following their methods?

The difference is that some of those guys had just one good year. There’s still a gamble there. What if it’s a fluke? Any longer term contract out of ELC is following Edmonton, even though some have worked out well.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Boston paid Pastrnak as a proven 34 goal/70 point player. They didn't give him a higher contract in the "hopes he gets better." Ditto Ehlers. Ditto Teravainen.

Uh, Ehlers is pretty much a perfect comparable to Nylander. Drafted one spot later as more of a goalscoring winger and had 64 and 60 point seasons before being re-signed. He struggled mightily in the playoffs before getting his $6M AAV contract, mind you, and had an awful start to this season, scoring only 1G+3A in his first 13GP and getting 3rd and even occasionally 4th line time. He has been streaky since then; after 20 GP he got up to 4G+5A. The Jets weren't in a miserable slump during that time, mind you.

Am I happy that Nylander got 900k more than Ehlers, when all you could argue for is that maybe someone who can play center has more value (but not on this team)? No, of course not, but I'd rather have a slightly overpaid Nylander than have him sit out. He'll be fine. His skills haven't deteriorated. His effort isn't 100% every shift, but you could say the same for pretty much everyone. I think he'll learn to play better D as a winger eventually. He's not stubborn or dimwitted.

As for Teravainen, he's 24 and had his career high (64P) last season so unless you're assuming that he'll keep up his current pace and finish with 70+ this year I'm not sure what your point is with him.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The difference is that some of those guys had just one good year. There’s still a gamble there. What if it’s a fluke? Any longer term contract out of ELC is following Edmonton, even though some have worked out well.

Around and around we go.

Teravainen got 64 points last year, and was putting up similar numbers after 48 games when he signed his contract. That's no longer "fluke" territory. What did he just sign for? You guessed it 5.4x5. That's remarkably cheaper. I don't care that he's (lol) "2 years older than Nylander".

 

[Dreakmur]

Around and around we go.

Teravainen got 64 points last year, and was putting up similar numbers after 48 games when he signed his contract. That's no longer "fluke" territory. What did he just sign for? You guessed it 5.4x5. That's remarkably cheaper. I don't care that he's (lol) "2 years older than Nylander".

Wasn’t talking about Teravainen.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Uh, Ehlers is pretty much a perfect comparable to Nylander. Drafted one spot later as more of a goalscoring winger and had 64 and 60 point seasons before being re-signed. He struggled mightily in the playoffs before getting his $6M AAV contract, mind you, and had an awful start to this season, scoring only 1G+3A in his first 13GP and getting 3rd and even occasionally 4th line time. He has been streaky since then; after 20 GP he got up to 4G+5A. The Jets weren't in a miserable slump during that time, mind you.

Am I happy that Nylander got 900k more than Ehlers, when all you could argue for is that maybe someone who can play center has more value (but not on this team)? No, of course not, but I'd rather have a slightly overpaid Nylander than have him sit out. He'll be fine. His skills haven't deteriorated. His effort isn't 100% every shift, but you could say the same for pretty much everyone. I think he'll learn to play better D as a winger eventually. He's not stubborn or dimwitted.

As for Teravainen, he's 24 and had his career high (64P) last season so unless you're assuming that he'll keep up his current pace and finish with 70+ this year I'm not sure what your point is with him.

Ehlers contract is also SEVEN years and takes up THREE of his ufa years. Notice how this never EVER goes the other way? It's never EVER Nylander's contract hidden bonus for the team? Want to know why? Because Nylanders contract is WORSE than his comparables.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Wasn’t talking about Teravainen.

So what's the excuse for HIS contract being so much better than Nylanders? Or Ehlers?

 

[Dreakmur]

So what's the excuse for HIS contract being so much better than Nylanders? Or Ehlers?

Can’t the Nylander contract just be bad? That Teravainen contract looks pretty reasonable to me.

 

[Rielly4]

Nylanders most direct comparable is definitely Ehlers. Cap inflation makes it so Nylander should be paid more...But it should have been more like 6.6....

Ehlers is actually really interesting because he was going through a huge slump to start this season. Want to know how Maurice got him out of his slump? Played him with Schieffle and Wheeler and put Connor who was thriving down with Laine. So maybe instead of putting Nylander on the 4th line, give him 2 extremely talented players to play with.

Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander needs to be tried. Its getting ridiculous why is he so willing to put Brown and Hyman on their off wings but not Kappy who played their a bit on the Marlies and looked good.

 

[Dreakmur]

Nylanders most direct comparable is definitely Ehlers. Cap inflation makes it so Nylander should be paid more...But it should have been more like 6.6....

Cap has gone up like 6 percent. If inflation is the only difference, Nylander should have signed 7 years at 6,360,000.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Ehlers is actually really interesting because he was going through a huge slump to start this season. Want to know how Maurice got him out of his slump? Played him with Schieffle and Wheeler and put Connor who was thriving down with Laine. So maybe instead of putting Nylander on the 4th line, give him 2 extremely talented players to play with.

Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander needs to be tried. Its getting ridiculous why is he so willing to put Brown and Hyman on their off wings but not Kappy who played their a bit on the Marlies and looked good.

I agree will never understand why coaches always say players need to work their way out of a slump then dump them on 4th line. You'd think they would work there way out of it with talented players in top 6 not on bottom 6 with scrubs. Every coach is guilty of this and I don't agree with it. It's just a hockey thing that players need to earn the top line roles but they need to put players in positions to succeed not hamper them with inferior players.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Nylanders most direct comparable is definitely Ehlers. Cap inflation makes it so Nylander should be paid more...But it should have been more like 6.6....

Ehlers is actually really interesting because he was going through a huge slump to start this season. Want to know how Maurice got him out of his slump? Played him with Schieffle and Wheeler and put Connor who was thriving down with Laine. So maybe instead of putting Nylander on the 4th line, give him 2 extremely talented players to play with.

Kapanen-Matthews-Nylander needs to be tried. Its getting ridiculous why is he so willing to put Brown and Hyman on their off wings but not Kappy who played their a bit on the Marlies and looked good.

it was tried, they got a goal in their first shift against Detroit. it was broken up after that first period for some reason though.

 

[ZEBROA]

There are quite a few leaf fans here who deny outright that he’s doing poorly at all. He’s (get this) just “unlucky”.

That narrative has created an argument that keeps threads like these alive. If everyone just agreed that he’s played like complete crap and that he needs to turn it around, no one would be beating the dead horse.

I belive that somwere between "complete crap" and " unlucky" lays the truth. Nylanders mental block aint the biggest problem right now. Leafs play has been solved , they need a plan B and C and D. They hardly got a plan A.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

almost like groundhog day.

The Groundhog day is Nylander's underperformance and dragging his ass around.

Team Melander is gone hopefully sooner than later.

 

[Rielly4]

it was tried, they got a goal in their first shift against Detroit. it was broken up after that first period for some reason though.

Nice call...I just went back and watched this first period. It was on Dec.23 for those wondering.

You can tell Nylander is still not playing or thinking fast enough at this point. He looks a lot better lately. But even still they played very well together...Why on earth hasn't this been tried again? Its common sense to play your best players together. I get spreading the scoring out as a strategy, but we have a ton of depth and what we are doing right now is not working offensively so put your best guys together.

 

[GodEmperor]

Nylander is simply fat



https://www.tsn.ca/slumping-nylander-has-new-look-and-new-line-1.1244540

As someone that has done a fair bit of bodybuilding and had friends that were male models where bodyfat is extremely important, you can look at how much fatter and rounder his face is and also the "double chin" under his jaw, although not a double chin relative to Canadian standards, it is relative to him. KEEP IN MIND, this is nearly 2 months AFTER he signed, he honestly looked very fat to me when he arrived at the airport, but I didn't really bother saying anything

Ofc it's hard to tell how much fatter he is, but basically here is what I think he did, literally sat around doing nothing during his contract negotiations, how else would we explain the fat gain and awful play?

Not only that, but look at this statistic, during Nylander's first 200 games (198 to be exact), he had 46 PIMs so basically very little and he has never really taken a ton of penalties, he is currently pacing for 60 PIM over the season, MORE than his entire career of 2.5x and why is this? He is out of position a lot more and thus forced to take these ticky tacky penalties.

If we can get Pesce and any piece added to him, I would do it in a heartbeat, this kid has been utterly exposed this year and no I'm not saying he will be a 15 point player going forward, but I have NO desire for the Leafs to deal with Greedy "The Fat Headache" Melander.

 

[meefer]

I suppose Roberts lost the (lol) "Eye test". Hasn't he seen that Nylander has been playing (lol) amazingly, and just has "bad luck"?

Ya, why would anyone listen to a former star and acknowledged performance trainer? I mean what possible comment could he make that pertains to Nylander's difficulties. Wadda bum.

 

[RLF]

Immune? There has never ever been so much hate thrown at a Swedish player in Swedish media ever. Fans have written hatemails to reporters about Nylander like never before. Childish and ignorant. And this was before he played like crap. So no he is not immune, hell every day here at HF there us a new twist on how crappy he is. Its pitchfork turbomode. The horse has been dead for a months now, at least beat one that is almost breathing.

I think you should follow the thread of posts. I was responding to someone else who was answering someone who was claiming that this kind of reaction would only be related to Nylander. Which is ridiculous. Many Leafs have been criticized, not just Nylander. I wasn't claiming that he doesn't get abuse,

 

[tokyoite]

trade him, because he is bad.

yahoo sports says → William Nylander, a very bad player who ruined the Maple Leafs and should be ashamed of himself

 

[RLF]

trade him, because he is bad.

yahoo sports says → William Nylander, a very bad player who ruined the Maple Leafs and should be ashamed of himself

I'm not sure if your comment is sarcastic like the article or you think the guy who wrote the article really thinks it is Nylander's fault.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Nylanders most direct comparable is definitely Ehlers.

There's a couple of very good comparables. Ehlers has the by far best contract of them. Any time you single out the comparable with the absolutely best contract, you'll be disappointed in what your guy gets. Unless you are Winnipeg and do that in your sleep.

 

[Bluelines]

An interesting take from Gary Roberts on the Nylander situation. In short: the Nylander camp underestimated the damage that missing all the time away from the game would have on WN's ability to get his game going in the NHL. Roberts believes in Nylander's talents, but suspects that he's just approaching a time frame where his timing and chemistry with the team will allow for the positive results to show up. https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-10...try-because-of-the-time-he-s-missed-1.1245232

Yeah it's probably the truth.

My experience for building chemistry is most coaches would tell me/teammates, if you can't help on the score sheet put the other guy on his @SS. Basically they were telling me to forget about scoring, forget about assisting and just go out and create havoc. Removing that pressure of having to score really allowed me to just play a game of reaction and most time it would get my head in the game and out of the over thinking that I tend to do. My teammates loved it, they knew that I was going out looking for blood and I loved it when a fellow teammate was willing to hit and bang when it was not in their normal game but that was a different era when checking was allowed in youth leagues. Problem is Willie is not the type of guy who likes to or lays out body contact. I really think the best thing for Willie is for Babcock to tell him go out and if the opportunity is there run (legally) someone every shift, its not like he is a small guy, he is 6ft, 200lbs, a guy that weighs 200lbs should be able to put a few players on their backsides. It;s not like he is doing anything now, so why not just focus on laying people out? So right now his stats line looks like zero goals, zero assists, zero hits, zero impact. Why not change it to 3 hits or 5 hits or 10 hits.

For what ever reason, time and time again when a team takes to a physical game and bullies other teams it gets them out of a funk. Playing an Ole Ole game, or doing a flamingo, or doing drive bys is not going to get a team out of a funk. When Hyman is your most engaged player, you don't have to look at the score sheet or highlights to know you are not playing well.

 

[Dreakmur]

There's a couple of very good comparables. Ehlers has the by far best contract of them. Any time you single out the comparable with the absolutely best contract, you'll be disappointed in what your guy gets. Unless you are Winnipeg and do that in your sleep.

Yeah, like Ales Hemsky!