Should Boughner stay or go?

[KW]

Then you raging on the wrong guy.

That's on Capuano

It is directly on Jackass but Boog is overall responsible.

 

[FinlandPanther]

It is directly on Jackass but Boog is overall responsible.

Thank you. I’d love both gone

 

[Crossbar]

Kinda off topic, but don't think anyone except Petro has complained about Boog the way Chelios did about Babcock.

https://www.bardown.com/chris-cheli...YeRu8dIFAFPKiAjDSdayDiWarobuZZhv0LxQyRj3pSX_w

 

[pantherbot]

Anyone who says boog is a top 10 coach I just can't take seriously. I agree it can be difficult to assess him given goaltending, but he hasn't done anything in his 2 seasons to prove he's more than just average. I can EASILY list 10 guys that are better.

Boudreau
Trotz
Babcock
Maurice
Gallant
Cooper
Julien
Torts
Laviolette
Hitchcock

That list doesn't even include guys with more experience and better records like cassidy, sullivan, deboer, carlyle, peters. Plus I'm leaving out guys who don't have jobs quenneville, tippett, yeo therrien, hart, vigneault, bylsma, ruff, sutter

You could arguably put him in the same category as newer guys like montgomery, berube, brindamour, tocchet, housley, but even then some of those guys are having better success. You can chalk it up to goaltending, and there's fine, but no way you can say he's better than these guys, maybe on par or up for debate.

 

[CHGoalie27]

Anyone who says boog is a top 10 coach I just can't take seriously. I agree it can be difficult to assess him given goaltending, but he hasn't done anything in his 2 seasons to prove he's more than just average. I can EASILY list 10 guys that are better.

Boudreau
Trotz
Babcock
Maurice
Gallant
Cooper
Julien
Torts
Laviolette
Hitchcock

That list doesn't even include guys with more experience and better records like cassidy, sullivan, deboer, carlyle, peters. Plus I'm leaving out guys who don't have jobs quenneville, tippett, yeo therrien, hart, vigneault, bylsma, ruff, sutter

You could arguably put him in the same category as newer guys like montgomery, berube, brindamour, tocchet, housley, but even then some of those guys are having better success. You can chalk it up to goaltending, and there's fine, but no way you can say he's better than these guys, maybe on par or up for debate.

You didn't even list the best one of all that happens to be out of work at the moment...

 

[Gentle Man]

Lest we forget, one of the biggest reasons Coach Q got fired in the first place is because Crawford got injured and has been injured the last 2 seasons.

Even the best of them get victimized when you dont get the appropriate goaltending to keep your team afloat or solidify your team in the first place.

 

[pantherbot]

You didn't even list the best one of all that happens to be out of work at the moment...

I dunno if I missed somebody but man.... There are a LOT of coaches that I can say with confidence are more qualified than boughner, goalie or no goalie. Drives me crazy to keep seeing people supporting this guy when there are better options. Do we want to win or not?

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

Lest we forget, one of the biggest reasons Coach Q got fired in the first place is because Crawford got injured and has been injured the last 2 seasons.

Even the best of them get victimized when you dont get the appropriate goaltending to keep your team afloat or solidify your team in the first place.

No comprendo, no habla inglés.

 

[pantherbot]

Lest we forget, one of the biggest reasons Coach Q got fired in the first place is because Crawford got injured and has been injured the last 2 seasons.

Even the best of them get victimized when you dont get the appropriate goaltending to keep your team afloat or solidify your team in the first place.

I get that, I'm not disputing that. All I'm saying is that if we want to win now, you go get the best damn coach you can.

We COULD go with monty next year. He has the POTENTIAL to be a great starter. But how many of us want a more proven commodity in net? Everyone with maybe the exception of ch.

Why should we be thinking about the coach any differently? He has proven nothing.

 

[CHGoalie27]

I dunno if I missed somebody but man.... There are a LOT of coaches that I can say with confidence are more qualified than boughner, goalie or no goalie. Drives me crazy to keep seeing people supporting this guy when there are better options. Do we want to win or not?

Joel Quenneville (NFS LOL) and there arent very many betternor available options. Q is all I see us replacing Boughner with for any kind of positive advance.

 

[pantherbot]

Re-reading that list of coaches just makes me more annoyed. There owners talk about wanting to win and spending the money to do it. So go back up there f***ing money truck and get us a proven coach.

 

[pantherbot]

Joel Quenneville (NFS LOL)

Oh he's there, I did go back to edit in the list of missing coaches....ugh

 

[Gentle Man]

I get that, I'm not disputing that. All I'm saying is that if we want to win now, you go get the best damn coach you can.

We COULD go with monty next year. He has the POTENTIAL to be a great starter. But how many of us want a more proven commodity in net? Everyone with maybe the exception of ch.

Why should we be thinking about the coach any differently? He has proven nothing.

Because when we got good goaltending, the team WAS playoff caliber. It took an aberration of a year for the team not to qualify. Sure they didnt make it, but 96 ordinarily gets you in. Hell, that is the second most point total we have had since Gallant was coach.

102, then 96, then 92 etc.

Do we really want to put these guys through another coach and learn another system. It would be their 4th system in what...3 years?

Gallant--->Rowe->Boughner--> New coach? Continuity matters as much as coaching and I just dont believe this year is exclusively on Boughner.

Even Julien got fired because Boston's goaltending at the time was at a swoon. Daryll Sutter was also a victim. Even the best coaches look like shit without good goaltending.

 

[jvr32]

Can’t accurately judge boog with the goaltending we’ve had. Well above .500 as coach with a massively inexperienced roster and league worst goaltending for year two. If I had to put a number I’d say middle of pack. Will know
More next year when the roster is
More balanced

Maybe you should learn.

 

[Gentle Man]

If anything, I believe what you try to do is convince Q to replace Capuano. And you convince him hard. Then if the team goes awry, Q steps in. Hell, pay him more than Boughner.

 

[jvr32]

Mike Babcock might be out of work by the end of the season. However I don't rate him that highly. Seems to be a poor man manager and out of touch with modern times. And he would be asking for a lot of money so it would be a bad value for money.

 

[pantherbot]

Because when we got good goaltending, the team WAS playoff caliber. It took an aberration of a year for the team not to qualify. Sure they didnt make it, but 96 ordinarily gets you in. Hell, that is the second most point total we have had since Gallant was coach.

102, then 96, then 92 etc.

Do we really want to put these guys through another coach and learn another system. It would be their 4th system in what...3 years?

Gallant--->Rowe->Boughner--> New coach? Continuity matters as much as coaching and I just dont believe this year is exclusively on Boughner.

Even Julien got fired because Boston's goaltending at the time was at a swoon. Daryll Sutter was also a victim. Even the best coaches look like **** without good goaltending.

I'm not disputing that there can be issues with coaching changes, but I think it's overblown. Either your team is coachable or they suck.

Look at the recent hires.

Oilers bring in hitchcock, but they still suck because that is a poorly constructed team.

Calgary brings in peters and they are rocking. Same with Isles and trotz. Brindamour is doing just fine. Gallant did pretty good with a completely new team last year. Montgomery in dallas is still up in the air, but hey they're doing better than us at least.

Bring in a good coach, and if this team is as good as it looks on paper, we won't have any problems.

 

[I am not exposed]

Anyone who says boog is a top 10 coach I just can't take seriously. I agree it can be difficult to assess him given goaltending, but he hasn't done anything in his 2 seasons to prove he's more than just average. I can EASILY list 10 guys that are better.

Boudreau
Trotz
Babcock
Maurice
Gallant
Cooper
Julien
Torts
Laviolette
Hitchcock

That list doesn't even include guys with more experience and better records like cassidy, sullivan, deboer, carlyle, peters. Plus I'm leaving out guys who don't have jobs quenneville, tippett, yeo therrien, hart, vigneault, bylsma, ruff, sutter

You could arguably put him in the same category as newer guys like montgomery, berube, brindamour, tocchet, housley, but even then some of those guys are having better success. You can chalk it up to goaltending, and there's fine, but no way you can say he's better than these guys, maybe on par or up for debate.

No one has actually said that.

harv3317 was the closest.

vendetta's post sums up what I think.

And those 10 guys you listed. Are you sure? I don't think Vancouver fans would agree with you about Torts. Babcock is getting a lot of stick at the moment. I personally do think he is a top 10 coach, but he is overrated. Wasn't that long ago that Tampa fans wanted Cooper gone. A lot of Jets fans weren't keen on Maurice. Doesn't feel like that long ago he was on the hot seat!

Actually what this list proves is that a lot of coaches have bad years, and the fanbase goes ballistic against them. But then suddenly the teams fortunes change, and suddenly they are good! It was hilarious reading the narrative about Trotz before he finally won a Stanley Cup last year. Good regular season coach, but choker in the playoffs. Suddenly he wins the Stanley Cup and not a peep from those same people. I remember Gallant getting quite a bit of stick around here (not by me btw).

As vendetta and a couple of others have mentioned, it is hard to judge Boughner fairly. Let's see what happens next year. I guarantee even with mediocre goaltending, we'll be in a playoff picture. Hell, if we had mediocre goaltending this season, we would easily be in a playoff place. And before anyone starts, no, I don't think goaltending is the only issue. But it has been the biggest factor in our disappointing season.

 

[pantherbot]

And for anyone wanting to bring up our coaching carousel as a problem, well if course it's a problem when you fire gallant for a guy like rowe. Or when you have gems like dineen or horachek!

Bring in a good proven coach. Give him a good roster. I guarantee the coaching carousel stops.

 

[Gentle Man]

I'm not disputing that there can be issues with coaching changes, but I think it's overblown. Either your team is coachable or they suck.

Look at the recent hires.

Oilers bring in hitchcock, but they still suck because that is a poorly constructed team.

Calgary brings in peters and they are rocking. Same with Isles and trotz. Brindamour is doing just fine. Gallant did pretty good with a completely new team last year. Montgomery in dallas is still up in the air, but hey they're doing better than us at least.

Bring in a good coach, and if this team is as good as it looks on paper, we won't have any problems.

Oilers also had a playoff year under McLellan where they got above average goaltending. And they still look like crap now, but take a look at their save percentage. They are below .900.

That poorly constructed team made it to the second round when they were getting .914 (Lucic not withstanding, that contract is horrid).

Gallant did fantastic last year and we all agree that was a bad firing. But you would be silly if you didnt think MAF and company had no big part in making that happen. MAF was surreal in the playoffs. I need to see what the Islanders are like next year. Lehner went from being almost out of the league to bringing a team to #1 in goals against. That is a record breaking climb and we need to see where it takes them.

You cant judge Boughner strictly on this year. You just cant. The save percentage gap from last year to this year is tremendous and yet, we are likely to finish about 6 points off last year's total.

Next year should be the judgement year for him.

 

[pantherbot]

No one has actually said that.

harv3317 was the closest.

vendetta's post sums up what I think.

And those 10 guys you listed. Are you sure? I don't think Vancouver fans would agree with you about Torts. Babcock is getting a lot of stick at the moment. I personally do think he is a top 10 coach, but he is overrated. Wasn't that long ago that Tampa fans wanted Cooper gone. A lot of Jets fans weren't keen on Maurice. Doesn't feel like that long ago he was on the hot seat!

Actually what this list proves is that a lot of coaches have bad years, and the fanbase goes ballistic against them. But then suddenly the teams fortunes change, and suddenly they are good! It was hilarious reading the narrative about Trotz before he finally won a Stanley Cup last year. Good regular season coach, but choker in the playoffs. Suddenly he wins the Stanley Cup and not a peep from those same people. I remember Gallant getting quite a bit of stick around here (not by me btw).

As vendetta and a couple of others have mentioned, it is hard to judge Boughner fairly. Let's see what happens next year. I guarantee even with mediocre goaltending, we'll be in a playoff picture. Hell, if we had mediocre goaltending this season, we would easily be in a playoff place. And before anyone starts, no, I don't think goaltending is the only issue. But it has been the biggest factor in our disappointing season.

My point is not too say that boog sucks. I agree that we can't really fairly judge him with bad goaltending. But that's the point. He is still an unknown after bring here for 2 years going into what is probably our most important season ever.

Nobody wants a question mark in net, I don't know why we're ok with one behind the bench. Makes no sense to me.

If after 2 years, all the best we can say about boog is maybe he is an average coach... I just don't see the point in finding out if that's true or not. Especially when there are proven coaches available.

 

[pantherbot]

Oilers also had a playoff year under McLellan where they got above average goaltending. And they still look like crap now, but take a look at their save percentage. They are below .900.

That poorly constructed team made it to the second round when they were getting .914 (Lucic not withstanding, that contract is horrid).

Gallant did fantastic last year and we all agree that was a bad firing. But you would be silly if you didnt think MAF and company had no big part in making that happen. MAF was surreal in the playoffs. I need to see what the Islanders are like next year. Lehner went from being almost out of the league to bringing a team to #1 in goals against. That is a record breaking climb and we need to see where it takes them.

You cant judge Boughner strictly on this year. You just cant. The save percentage gap from last year to this year is tremendous and yet, we are likely to finish about 6 points off last year's total.

Next year should be the judgement year for him.

Again, I'm not judging him. There's nothing to judge, he hasn't done anything. I'm not interested in spending possibly the most important season of this franchise finding out what we have with boog

 

[pantherbot]

Is boughner a good coach? A bad coach? Just average? The best answer right now is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's what we're going into next season with. That's just not good enough.

 

[Gentle Man]

Again, I'm not judging him. There's nothing to judge, he hasn't done anything. I'm not interested in spending possibly the most important season of this franchise finding out what we have with boog

Calling for a coaching change is judging him though. How isnt it? You replace him with Q and you are essentially saying he isnt as good as Q.....which is fair. That is likely an opinion held by a lot of people. A LOT.

All I am saying is that even a coach like Q can look ordinary and WILL have looked oridinary if he had the goaltending we got this year. And if you change coaches before next year, you are hoping on a lightning strike similar to what the Penguins got under Sullivan and Sutter with LA. And those worked because the philosophy fit with the team. Sullivan wanted their top end players to carry out the D zone as opposed to the D-men doing the work.

Sutter went for shutdown hockey and he got it. That defense core was stout. Voynov, Mitchell, Doughty, etc.

I do agree that Boughner's philosphy isnt an exact fit for this roster though. Our best players thrive on puck possession and no so much fast paced transition.

Honestly, I think our team would be a good fit for Q if Soupy was still here. He likes to rely on a horse on the blue line (Duncan Keith) and go from there.

 

[vendetta]

Is boughner a good coach? A bad coach? Just average? The best answer right now is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's what we're going into next season with. That's just not good enough.

And firing him and putting another coach is an even bigger ? Even a proven guy like q will be a ? How do our players respond to yet another coaching change? How do our top guys play under him? How bout our young d? Does his philosophy even fit with our roster?