Should Boughner stay or go?

[vendetta]

do you just watch stats? or do you actually watch teams play

serious question

I watch a shit ton of hockey. Most people don’t watch as much as I do. So i bring up stats to give people an idea of what else is happening around league. These stats are from clear rules as to how they got there so there is no bias. I watch more teams than others due to relationships/ entertainment value. But one thing is for damn sure. The good teams get bailed out consistently when they breakdown and get outplayed. They look like they have no clue what’s going on or how to play hockey for stretches but their goalie holds them in until they get going and get some
Momentum back. I’ve never seen goaltending as bad as we’ve gotten this year and that’s both watching and playing. I think it is impossible to judge almost every aspect of the team with goaltending like this

 

[vendetta]

do you just watch stats? or do you actually watch teams play

serious question

And as far as Carolina goes mrazek is usually the one stealing them wins. He consistently makes highlight reel saves on grade a chances until Carolina can capitalize on their chances. I watch Carolina a lot. Islanders not so much. But their goaltending has been unreal as well.

 

[pantherbot]

Do you think islanders or
Carolina are well coached? Because they have given up more high danger scoring chances against 5 on5 than we have.

again...you completely miss the point.

Carolina and islanders have had phenomenal goaltending this season. For whatever reason lehner and the canes duo have revived their careers and are playing the best ever. So a smart coach, which is what trotz and I'm guessing brindamour is (I don't watch much canes), would let the team play looser and rely on the goaltending. That's playing to your strengths. A dumb coach, which maybe boughner is or he's just not capable, would continue to rely on their goalies even though they aren't good.

That's what I'm trying to get at. Boughner consistently tries to put square pegs in round holes. Maybe that's on management not matching the coach to the personnel or vice versa, but the point is, boughner has not adapted well to changing situations.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

I watch a **** ton of hockey. Most people don’t watch as much as I do. So i bring up stats to give people an idea of what else is happening around league. These stats are from clear rules as to how they got there so there is no bias. I watch more teams than others due to relationships/ entertainment value. But one thing is for damn sure. The good teams get bailed out consistently when they breakdown and get outplayed. They look like they have no clue what’s going on or how to play hockey for stretches but their goalie holds them in until they get going and get some
Momentum back. I’ve never seen goaltending as bad as we’ve gotten this year and that’s both watching and playing. I think it is impossible to judge almost every aspect of the team with goaltending like this

And as far as Carolina goes mrazek is usually the one stealing them wins. He consistently makes highlight reel saves on grade a chances until Carolina can capitalize on their chances. I watch Carolina a lot. Islanders not so much. But their goaltending has been unreal as well.

Yes goaltending has been bad, you know it I know it everyone knows it.

But I'm confused why you think bad goaltending = Boog is a good coach. Because I haven't seen much if anything at all that he is nothing but another talking head. And I've never heard any player talk about him like they talked about GG.

 

[vendetta]

again...you completely miss the point.

Carolina and islanders have had phenomenal goaltending this season. For whatever reason lehner and the canes duo have revived their careers and are playing the best ever. So a smart coach, which is what trotz and I'm guessing brindamour is (I don't watch much canes), would let the team play looser and rely on the goaltending. That's playing to your strengths. A dumb coach, which maybe boughner is or he's just not capable, would continue to rely on their goalies even though they aren't good.

That's what I'm trying to get at. Boughner consistently tries to put square pegs in round holes. Maybe that's on management not matching the coach to the personnel or vice versa, but the point is, boughner has not adapted well to changing situations.

Your point is invalid because again there is no defense that can cover up our goaltending. The pucks go in anyways. I would argue run and gun is our only chance because even on low danger chances the puck is going in. Which isn’t on defense
Or systems at all. How good of defense do u expect a team to play to make
Up for this goaltending? Outside of
Leading the league in scoring it won’t happen. We try to sit back on our leads and defend but the goalies give up a softy and blow the lead. And this isn’t even taking into account the tentativenss that goes into the players playing scared.

 

[vendetta]

Yes goaltending has been bad, you know it I know it everyone knows it.

But I'm confused why you think bad goaltending = Boog is a good coach. Because I haven't seen much if anything at all that he is nothing but another talking head. And I've never heard any player talk about him like they talked about GG.

Boog is no gallant. And I don’t even know if he is good. I know our players are putting up career highs and the effort is there night after night. I know ekblad has turned a massive corner. I k ow our special teams are elite for the first time ever. And I know when he shuffles lines and pushes buttons it tends to work. I also k ow our core and defense are still extremely young like it
Or not. So my point is firing boog this early without proper Assesment and a lot of things trending in the correct direction wouldn’t be the best without a clear upgrade brought in. And who knows what that looks like with coaching.

 

[pantherbot]

Your point is invalid because again there is no defense that can cover up our goaltending. The pucks go in anyways. I would argue run and gun is our only chance because even on low danger chances the puck is going in. Which isn’t on defense
Or systems at all. How good of defense do u expect a team to play to make
Up for this goaltending? Outside of
Leading the league in scoring it won’t happen. We try to sit back on our leads and defend but the goalies give up a softy and blow the lead. And this isn’t even taking into account the tentativenss that goes into the players playing scared.

Boog is no gallant. And I don’t even know if he is good. I know our players are putting up career highs and the effort is there night after night. I know ekblad has turned a massive corner. I k ow our special teams are elite for the first time ever. And I know when he shuffles lines and pushes buttons it tends to work. I also k ow our core and defense are still extremely young like it
Or not. So my point is firing boog this early without proper Assesment and a lot of things trending in the correct direction wouldn’t be the best without a clear upgrade brought in. And who knows what that looks like with coaching.

except that we aren't a run and gun team. we're TERRIBLE at 5v5 play and only score so much from our power play which is the one bright spot this season. so your point is completely moot. I'd be ok if we were actually some high octane offense, but we're not.

The career highs for players are coming in a season of exceptionally high offense across the league, many players are setting career highs, that's just the trend across the nhl. the effort is definitely NOT there night after night, we must be watching completely different teams. ekblad is better, but matheson is way worse, you can't give credit for one and ignore the other. our special teams are good, is boughner responsible for that? maybe he should just be an assistant special teams coach then. the line shuffles work as much as they don't, this is not a plus for him.

I think we're actually in agreement in that unless there is a clear upgrade, we should just keep boughner. as he learns, he may evolve to be an average coach - not a hinderance, but not elevating the team. but for now there's been nothing to suggest he's a good coach.

 

[Drugs Delaney]

The People have spoken! The only ones that care anyway.

Boughner Must Go!

 

[drktmplr12]

I seriously hope not... I mine as well by my Vegas jersey now then. 3 years with the talent we have and he has done very sub par. Id rather him get fired and hire the assistant head coach.

I am starting to think more and more our roster is not the problem at all but management of the roster. Seems like bujgstand and McCann have settled in quite quickly and done well.

McCann is getting a good look. Bjugstad looks the same.

 

[drktmplr12]

I think boog routinely is out coached and it's proven by the eye test with as many 3rd period leads are blown. I don't understand what other explanation there would be..

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Boog is no gallant. And I don’t even know if he is good. I know our players are putting up career highs and the effort is there night after night. I know ekblad has turned a massive corner. I k ow our special teams are elite for the first time ever. And I know when he shuffles lines and pushes buttons it tends to work. I also k ow our core and defense are still extremely young like it
Or not. So my point is firing boog this early without proper Assesment and a lot of things trending in the correct direction wouldn’t be the best without a clear upgrade brought in. And who knows what that looks like with coaching.

The guys who are doing well would do well without Boog

Don't think you can give credit about special teams to him

 

[vendetta]

I think boog routinely is out coached and it's proven by the eye test with as many 3rd period leads are blown. I don't understand what other explanation there would be..

Worst goaltending in the league might have something to do with blown leads. Ya think?

 

[vendetta]

The guys who are doing well would do well without Boog

Don't think you can give credit about special teams to him

So he gets no credit for the positives but gets all the blame for the bad even tho the absolute worst thing going is goaltending and that’s not debatable. Just shows all the bias and rational behind it

 

[Anakinsky]

So he gets no credit for the positives but gets all the blame for the bad even tho the absolute worst thing going is goaltending and that’s not debatable. Just shows all the bias and rational behind it

I actually like boog, but defending him as a solid coach is comical... I usually agree with you on most points but id say boog is just as bad of a coach as our goaltending overall this year..

How do you describe the past 2 games ? It was stated that we have not practiced over this period and have been having fun. ( Admit not the most valid evidence but can't be ignored that we have been playing fantastic and vibing well without any practice or what seems like serious coaching.. )

Boog as been our coach for 3 years and we have not done well at all.... Would you argue that over the past 3 years the talent on our squad is not top 3 in our division. Did we almost make the post season and put up solid points, yes, but almost does not mean ****.

Do we have the ability to pick up a coach ? who knows. I am almost inclined to let the assistant head coach take over and see what he can do in the interm. Why ? because why not. Boog seems to just want to model the team after bits of succesful teams which has failed miserably.

Does our goaltending suck.... YES. We can always make excuses for if we saved one goal if we scored one more or if this/that.

Regarding special teams, I think this has more to do with the assistant coach, which is why I think we should give him a shot. ( no evidence just a hunch )

I just do not think we can deny the fact that we are an awful 5v5 squad, and top of the league PP squad and think the same person could be solely responsible for this. Doesn't add up in my eyes.

I am not blaming the coach 100%, however he is a large part of the issue at hand. I would replace him with someone solid, then dismember our team again.... thinking that will fix it.



Your takes ? @vendetta @drktmplr12 @Kellyr

 

[Anakinsky]

I think boog routinely is out coached and it's proven by the eye test with as many 3rd period leads are blown. I don't understand what other explanation there would be..

agree

 

[vendetta]

I actually like boog, but defending him as a solid coach is comical... I usually agree with you on most points but id say boog is just as bad of a coach as our goaltending overall this year..

How do you describe the past 2 games ? It was stated that we have not practiced over this period and have been having fun. ( Admit not the most valid evidence but can't be ignored that we have been playing fantastic and vibing well without any practice or what seems like serious coaching.. )

Boog as been our coach for 3 years and we have not done well at all.... Would you argue that over the past 3 years the talent on our squad is not top 3 in our division. Did we almost make the post season and put up solid points, yes, but almost does not mean ****.

Do we have the ability to pick up a coach ? who knows. I am almost inclined to let the assistant head coach take over and see what he can do in the interm. Why ? because why not. Boog seems to just want to model the team after bits of succesful teams which has failed miserably.

Does our goaltending suck.... YES. We can always make excuses for if we saved one goal if we scored one more or if this/that.

Regarding special teams, I think this has more to do with the assistant coach, which is why I think we should give him a shot. ( no evidence just a hunch )

I just do not think we can deny the fact that we are an awful 5v5 squad, and top of the league PP squad and think the same person could be solely responsible for this. Doesn't add up in my eyes.

I am not blaming the coach 100%, however he is a large part of the issue at hand. I would replace him with someone solid, then dismember our team again.... thinking that will fix it.



Your takes ? @vendetta @drktmplr12 @Kellyr

As far as not practicing. During the season there especially as hectic as ours there’s barely time for practice. They go thru long stretches where they play every other day and won’t get in normal practices. This is normal. Also he’s been our coach for 2 years not 3. And u are also saying make the change just for the sake of making change if u are saying give the assistant a chance (cause why not). That is rarely a good idea. There’s a lot
Of factors into this season. Barkov adjustment of taking over the team I think took a while. He was aweful 5 on5 at the start and is now back to dominant the last month. Maybe it took him time
To adjust to all the extras that come with it. I just wanna give boog another year for stability sakes with nhl level goaltending and another year of experience and see what he can do.

 

[Ghoste]

If a guy like Q really wanted to be here, I think you have to try and make it work. But I doubt he does.

No matter the excuses, we haven't made the playoffs in Bob's two years here. The bad starts to the season have sunk us both times. I believe if we get off to a slow start next season, Vinny will force Tallon to fire Bob. I don't see Vinny letting another season go to waste -- especially with the expected moves we'll be making in the summer -- without repercussions.

-ghoste

 

[KW]

If a guy like Q really wanted to be here, I think you have to try and make it work. But I doubt he does.

No matter the excuses, we haven't made the playoffs in Bob's two years here. The bad starts to the season have sunk us both times. I believe if we get off to a slow start next season, Vinny will force Tallon to fire Bob. I don't see Vinny letting another season go to waste -- especially with the expected moves we'll be making in the summer -- without repercussions.

-ghoste

I think key player opinion should count here too. If Boog doesn’t have enthusiastic support from Bar/Hub/Ek/Yan/Luo/Tro/Dad/Hoff/Mat then why wait until start of the season?

This team is helped by fixing the G position. This team doesn’t become playoffs good without fixing the HC position.

(This is undeniably true and anyone who disagrees should learn hockey. LOL.)

 

[pb1300]

Im not going to blame Boughner to the start of the season. We had two games in in the first six days of the season, and we lost our starting goaltender in the first period of our opening game. A season consists of a lot of up and downs and adversities, but it is a coaches job to control his teams emotions, to put them in the right situations to succeed, make adjustments when need be, hold players accountable, bring out the best in them, etc. I just dont see all that from Boughner. While we have seen improvement at times, we are still seeing flaws now, that were there at the beginning of the season.

I agree with what is being said here, that our goalies do not help there cause, but our season falls on Boughner's shoulders as well. Im not ready to make a move on him yet, unless Q wants the job, but I have no problem with Tallon replacing Capuano. The problem I see with that is, if anyone noticed the behind the scenes the other day with the team photo day, the D core seem to like him, and how a Capuano replacement might be an unpopular move. Maybe an upgrade in net and on the blueline could change a lot, but if it were up to me, both Bob and Capuano would be on a SHORT leash next season.

 

[drktmplr12]

Worst goaltending in the league might have something to do with blown leads. Ya think?

i'm starting to learn that its zero sum with you. i said nothing about goaltending and wasn't responding or debating any claims you are making. only trying to add to the conversation.

for the record, most here view goaltending as part of the problem. they also attribute it in part to boog's coaching. sorry everyone doesn't agree with you 100%.

 

[Haj]

Boog is no gallant. And I don’t even know if he is good. I know our players are putting up career highs and the effort is there night after night. I know ekblad has turned a massive corner. I k ow our special teams are elite for the first time ever. And I know when he shuffles lines and pushes buttons it tends to work. I also k ow our core and defense are still extremely young like it
Or not. So my point is firing boog this early without proper Assesment and a lot of things trending in the correct direction wouldn’t be the best without a clear upgrade brought in. And who knows what that looks like with coaching.

As much as I disagree with what you are asserting, I respect the fact that you are making an actual argument that I haven't seen any Boughner supporters make this year.

 

[Anakinsky]

As far as not practicing. During the season there especially as hectic as ours there’s barely time for practice. They go thru long stretches where they play every other day and won’t get in normal practices. This is normal. Also he’s been our coach for 2 years not 3. And u are also saying make the change just for the sake of making change if u are saying give the assistant a chance (cause why not). That is rarely a good idea. There’s a lot
Of factors into this season. Barkov adjustment of taking over the team I think took a while. He was aweful 5 on5 at the start and is now back to dominant the last month. Maybe it took him time
To adjust to all the extras that come with it. I just wanna give boog another year for stability sakes with nhl level goaltending and another year of experience and see what he can do.

I thought this was year 3 of 4 on his contract.
I guess since we don't have much to play with, it just does not seem like the team rally's behind him well.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

So he gets no credit for the positives but gets all the blame for the bad even tho the absolute worst thing going is goaltending and that’s not debatable. Just shows all the bias and rational behind it

If the positives aren't because of him how do you give him credit? McFarland should be in charge of the PP.

I'll give Boog the line changing, he seems to be fairly active trying new things. But that's about it.

 

[Crossbar]

I just want to know what Coach Q is going to do for us, yell at the players and flash his rings? He couldn't save the sinking ship in the Windy City, but he's going to bring our guys to the playoffs? I'm not bashing his knowledge of the game, I even used to have an avatar of him long ago when he got canned in St. Louis, hoping that Cohen would hire him before Jacques Martin (who I wanted even more) was canned in Ottawa. What everyone seems to be complaining about is structure and that screams X's and O's coach like Trotz....not Q/Torts type. Everyone complaining wants the defense fixed, then maybe Alain Vigneault would be a better choice?

I still think Boog is doing the best with the roster he's been given, so I agree with Vendetta about all the career highs (minus Tro this season, but he had highs last season) guys are having. My only complaint of Boog is giving Math too many minutes (especially 5-on-3 PK) and if Boog had a big say with why we didn't bring in a 4th, 5th, 6th, etc goalie sooner like Philly did.

 

[iam76]

I would take q over boog.. but not really interested in anyone else