Should #68 be retired?

[brewski420]

I voted no. My first impulse and went with it. A number should be retired if that number was only worn playing on that team (basically a one team player which will be a rarity in this day and age) but that is really my opinion and understand other views. I accept there will be exceptions even in my mind but not in Jagr's case for me.

Love him as a player both with the Pens and elsewhere. I was in Pittsburgh for all years he was there.

 

[ColePens]

He's one of the best players to ever play the game, and he was the best player on our team for a significant amount of time. That's enough for me. He did enough here to get his name into the rafters what, 6 times already?

There is a difference from retiring a jersey from an NHL standpoint and a team standpoint. I'll take retiring a guy who meant more for the city, organization, AND his success on the ice over Jagr's accolades over 45% of his career.

We aren't ever going to agree on this. It's not a Jagr thing to me. It's how I look at retiring numbers in general.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

There is a difference from retiring a jersey from an NHL standpoint and a team standpoint. I'll take retiring a guy who meant more for the city, organization, AND his success on the ice over Jagr's accolades over 45% of his career.

We aren't ever going to agree on this. It's not a Jagr thing to me. It's how I look at retiring numbers in general.

This... This... THIS!!!!!!!!

 

[brewski420]

There is a difference from retiring a jersey from an NHL standpoint and a team standpoint. I'll take retiring a guy who meant more for the city, organization, AND his success on the ice over Jagr's accolades over 45% of his career.

We aren't ever going to agree on this. It's not a Jagr thing to me. It's how I look at retiring numbers in general.

I agree with this in addition to my previous post about playing with one team.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If Sid or Geno retired right now, would you want their numbers retired? I sure would. Jagr played here longer than either of them has.

 

[ColePens]

If you need a decent example (not perfect by any means): Miami Heat should retire D Wade's jersey at the end of his career. He's been THE guy in the community, on the court, and for the organization of Miami Heat. Lebron is 100x better, MVP this and that, brought championships to Miami... but that number shouldn't be retired.

 

[ColePens]

If Sid or Geno retired right now, would you want their numbers retired? I sure would. Jagr played here longer than either of them has.

Situationally speaking... not sure.

- Geno retires and goes to KHL to be close to his parents - no.
- Geno gets in a car accident and unfortunately cannot play another game - yes. (Please dear lord do not happen)

If he just randomly retired and called it a day - sorry no. He was a strong player for our team, did a little for the community, and was great for our organization. But that puts him in the Pittsburgh Hall of whatever thing they have. Not a retired jersey.


Sid's community outreach is pretty strong so that would lead me to a yes, especially if it was due to concussions. I feel he'd still play a big part in ownership AND our community. What he does to get kids involved in hockey is amazing.


So i guess ultimately community outreach is sort of a big deal for me in some of these scenarios.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Situationally speaking... not sure.

- Geno retires and goes to KHL to be close to his parents - no.
- Geno gets in a car accident and unfortunately cannot play another game - yes. (Please dear lord do not happen)

If he just randomly retired and called it a day - sorry no. He was a strong player for our team, did a little for the community, and was great for our organization. But that puts him in the Pittsburgh Hall of whatever thing they have. Not a retired jersey.


Sid's community outreach is pretty strong so that would lead me to a yes, especially if it was due to concussions. I feel he'd still play a big part in ownership AND our community. What he does to get kids involved in hockey is amazing.


So i guess ultimately community outreach is sort of a big deal for me in some of these scenarios.

Which is exactly why I said that a player had to mean something to the city (+ the team obviously) to have his number retired.

 

[ColePens]

Which is exactly why I said that a player had to mean something to the city (+ the team obviously) to have his number retired.

Oh 1000000% yep. I will take less stats/awards/etc. I can't quite think of a great example to use, but I'd take a player who was tremendous on the field/ice, meant so much to our organization, AND delivered w/ community outreach, too. Those 3 HAVE to be there.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If you need a decent example (not perfect by any means): Miami Heat should retire D Wade's jersey at the end of his career. He's been THE guy in the community, on the court, and for the organization of Miami Heat. Lebron is 100x better, MVP this and that, brought championships to Miami... but that number shouldn't be retired.

he was only there for what, 3 or 4 years? Not the same thing.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Situationally speaking... not sure.

- Geno retires and goes to KHL to be close to his parents - no.
- Geno gets in a car accident and unfortunately cannot play another game - yes. (Please dear lord do not happen)

If he just randomly retired and called it a day - sorry no. He was a strong player for our team, did a little for the community, and was great for our organization. But that puts him in the Pittsburgh Hall of whatever thing they have. Not a retired jersey.


Sid's community outreach is pretty strong so that would lead me to a yes, especially if it was due to concussions. I feel he'd still play a big part in ownership AND our community. What he does to get kids involved in hockey is amazing.


So i guess ultimately community outreach is sort of a big deal for me in some of these scenarios.

we'll just agree to disagree I guess.

 

[ColePens]

^ Yep. No shame in that, Ogre. This is one that will always have differing opinions. Not just Jagr, but who should get their jersey retired and HOW it should be done. There is no set outline for what should/shouldn't happen.

 

[TNT87]

I don't understand the argument that he was only in Pittsburgh for a certain amount of time during his career. What does that matter when he is second all-time in the offensive categories for the Pens as of right now? He will always be one of the greatest Penguins ever no matter. When trying to decide whether or not his number should be retired that argument will not affect my opinion. Ron Francis didn't play his whole career here but I believe he should have his number retired. If we base it on that then there wouldn't be many numbers retired since it's becoming rare that players stay with one team throughout their career.

I will always remember some of his greatest moments as a Penguin like the game-tying goal in Game 1 in the SCF against the Blackhawks or the goal he scored while on his back swinging the puck out of the air against the Flyers, however, I equally remember him sulking and quiting in the ECF against the Devils. The way he thumbed his nose at Lemieux when there was talk of him coming here still leaves me disgusted.

I know there are still people that want him to come back and I'm definitely not one of them. Not because of the way he acted but because he's old and hasn't done anything in the playoffs for years. Too many fans are nostalgic and want to bring back old Penguin players .

I can see both sides of this topic. It's tough but if he would have came back instead of chasing the money, which he always has done, then my decision would be for the number to be retired. However, I would have to say no because he could care less about the organization and he doesn't know the meaning of the word loyal. Though I have absolutely no problem with people saying that it should be retired. I have more of a stronger opinion of him returning than I do on his number being retired.

 

[clefty]

Cap space? Our GM thought adding Taylor Pyatt and his $1.2 million contract via waivers was a good idea last year. Shero wasn't exactly a guru of great cap management. Weak argument.

What in God's name does a waiver claim of Taylor Pyatt three years later have to do anything???

Weak argument? Jesus, I think the irony hit me so hard there it just gave me cancer.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Clefty, my favorite irony of the many in the whole Jagr debate is people saying "Oh it's not emotional, you're being emotional" and then using as the criteria for retiring number....

...the nostalgic "feeling" they had watching the (ineffectual) Jagr lead Pens.

Whatever. I like Jagr and have conflicting opinions about him. But I like high standards more. I also know full well what a ****** he is having to suffer through his interviews with Česká televize now. You guys think Rossi's bad, you haven't sat through a 2-hour Jagr nut polishing on CT.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd be happy to see Francis and Barrasso retired too. The difference being that neither of them was ever the best player on the Pens, so I'd put them a step behind him here.

Yeah, they also didn't leave on bad terms but also had huge legacies that were equally important to the Cup and the success of the 90's Pens. Francis alone carried the team multiple times when Lemeiux was out, as well as Jagr.

Personally, I only want the absolute creme-de-la-creme retired. You may not get that and want to punch me in the throat. That's cool. I could give a ****. But that's where I stand.

Painting it as just wanting to boo Jagr is dumb and you should know better, since you seem like a relatively smart dude.

 

[DenisSamson3]

Honest question from a neutral observer. If Jagr came back, lets say this year or next year and was helpful for a Stanley cup win, would that change feelings?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah, they also didn't leave on bad terms but also had huge legacies that were equally important to the Cup and the success of the 90's Pens. Francis alone carried the team multiple times when Lemeiux was out, as well as Jagr.

Personally, I only want the absolute creme-de-la-creme retired. You may not get that and want to punch me in the throat. That's cool. I could give a ****. But that's where I stand.

Painting it as just wanting to boo Jagr is dumb and you should know better, since you seem like a relatively smart dude.

I don't want to punch people who think he shouldn't get his jersey retired. That's fine. I disagree with it, but understand it and respect it. The people who boo him; not so much. I get why he got boo'd in 2002. But its 2014.

 

[Lomez]

There is a difference from retiring a jersey from an NHL standpoint and a team standpoint. I'll take retiring a guy who meant more for the city, organization, AND his success on the ice over Jagr's accolades over 45% of his career.

We aren't ever going to agree on this. It's not a Jagr thing to me. It's how I look at retiring numbers in general.

I certainly understand this argument, I just think Jagr rose to heights that trancend the usual good player passing through a town. I admit I was a real Jagr fanboy back in the day, so that clearly influences my view. Gonna disagree I guess.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I certainly understand this argument, I just think Jagr rose to heights that trancend the usual good player passing through a town. I admit I was a real Jagr fanboy back in the day, so that clearly influences my view. Gonna disagree I guess.

Exactly. His time here was an extended stretch of some of the best hockey that has ever been played by anyone.

 

[Beau Knows]

Meh, can't say I really care either way. He clearly hasn't been an active part of the Pens alumni and likely won't be when he retires. He almost certainly will have his number retired but it could be a very long time from now, he would get booed if they did it in the next several years.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Meh, can't say I really care either way. He clearly hasn't been an active part of the Pens alumni and likely won't be when he retires. He almost certainly will have his number retired but it could be a very long time from now, he would get booed if they did it in the next several years.

its embarrassing that you're probably right.

 

[H382]

Trade Martin back to NJ for Jagr. Martin can mentor Severson and Jagr and Pittsburgh can live happily ever after.

 

[mrzeigler]

No.

He only spent half his NHL career here, abd he left on a *really* sour note.

True. But every time I go to the arena, I look up the MVP and scoring title banners, and that sour note doesn't matter so much.

But there's no rush. It will happen when the team is on the skids in 7 or 8 years — when the team can leverage it to fill the arena.

The only way Jagr's number is not retired in Pittsburgh is if the franchise takes the stance of not retiring numbers after Mario. Although for an organization to adopt a policy that only the boss gets so honored would be the epitome of ******.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

It's definitely not feeling dissed, it's the people from Pittsburgh falling in love w/ a player who really didn't mean as much as we all thought. He was tremendous but like people have said - less than 50% of his career was here. Should we retire Coffey, Barrasso, Francis (both 9/10), and the rest of the names associated with those teams?

No - they weren't here. I'm against retiring numbers (ANY TEAM/ANY SPORT) for an individual team unless they played basically their whole career with one team and meant more to the organization, city, etc. That's the only way a jersey gets retired IMO.

Couple examples: Favre (GB), Lemieux, Leetch (NYR), etc. I'm looking for guys who spent their career mainly in one city and did some great stuff for the organization/town/etc. Jagr was an elite player here, but less than 50% was spent here. Come on, now.

Yeah, they also didn't leave on bad terms but also had huge legacies that were equally important to the Cup and the success of the 90's Pens. Francis alone carried the team multiple times when Lemeiux was out, as well as Jagr.

Personally, I only want the absolute creme-de-la-creme retired. You may not get that and want to punch me in the throat. That's cool. I could give a ****. But that's where I stand.

Painting it as just wanting to boo Jagr is dumb and you should know better, since you seem like a relatively smart dude.

These posts describe my opinion on the matter.


And if Sid or Geno were traded tomorrow? No, I wouldn't retire their numbers. The bar should be set astronomically high.