OT: Shooting at Parliament

[FireMelnyk]

Does anyone know if the war monument guards always carry those 'fake/prop' guns or whether they are only used during ceremonies etc?

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Are you referring to the shooter? Zehaf-Bibeau?

The same guy who tried to rob a McDonalds with a stick so that he could go to prison because he thought it would get him clean from his crack addiction? The same guy that many in the system thought had a severe mental disorder?

I hope you'll pardon me if I think of the events on Parliament as less of an "Islamist threat", and more of a sad, mentally and socially unstable individual who fell through the cracks.

Can't it be both? Seems reasonable to think that religion played a part in his actions. The guy is quoted as yelling "For Iraq" and he supposedly had a religious awakening just like the Boston Bomber did. I dont think the guy commits these actions if he doesnt believe that God will reward him in the after life. He did pass a psychiatric assessment and was found fit in 2011 which is also worth noting. A psychiatric is not a one does process.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Harper has been absolutely terrible. Can't wait for Justin Trudeau.

 

[FireMelnyk]

Harper has been absolutely terrible. Can't wait for Justin Trudeau.

Doubt he'll be much better, we'll just have more costly scandals and less war. I just hope for more minority governments since it's harder to completely mess things up with one.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Harper has been absolutely terrible. Can't wait for Justin Trudeau.

Theyre all terrible. Just have to choose the lesser evil.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Doubt he'll be much better, we'll just have more costly scandals and less war. I just hope for more minority governments since it's harder to completely mess things up with one.

That's my hope.

 

[BonkTastic]

Can't it be both? Seems reasonable to think that religion played a part in his actions.

Sure. Religion played a part in pushing a disturbed man over the edge, I think that much is obvious.

At the end of the day though, our problem is with the actions of a disturbed man, not a problem with religion. This was not an act of terrorism planned by a terrorist organization.
We're already hearing about back history of this guy, and a very concrete picture of mental illness is developing. You can't pin that on religion.

As far as I'm concerned, a mentally ill individual shot and killed Cpl. Cirillo. Everything else is just context.

 

[ottawa]

Look if Harper ever did try to pass a bill that would take away our freedoms or invade our privacy. I would be the first to protest it and him. We need more bipartisanship in this country especially after this.
Lets not lose focus on what took place. Extreme Islamic fundamentalist are a serious threat that must not be taken lightly.

Lol what?

Let's leave discrimination out of this...there have not been many occasions of of recent shootings where we can say the root cause of this was the shooters mental instability, yet ignorance and fear mongering insists on linking this to Islamic terrorism. We should be grateful it was not that, this time and hopefully the last time the great people of our nation are threatened. Spreading fear about terrorism will do more harm than good, people need to educate themselves more on this shooting before spreading propaganda, otherwise you're just undoing what the media and state officials are doing to assure our people it is not terrorism, and you are instead helping groups like ISIS by getting their names out there.

Edit: I know I have a bad rep on these boards from previous history and I've been trying to come on these boards with a lighter heart these days...but I will say this, I apologize if I sounded condescending (and I probably did) in my paragraph above, but let me also say one more thing...as an ex-muslim I have absolutely no problem in bashing Islam (sorry mods, you can remove that bit if you want), but as a rational man I am willing to do research in order to see both sides of the story before drawing an objective conclusion and discussing it publicly, so for me personally, saying anything against Islam in this particular situation is ignorant and unfair to Muslims. This is my opinion though, some of you may continue to link this to Islam and I'm okay with that, but I just wanted to give my thoughts on the topic of religion.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Sure. Religion played a part in pushing a disturbed man over the edge, I think that much is obvious.

At the end of the day though, our problem is with the actions of a disturbed man, not a problem with religion. This was not an act of terrorism planned by a terrorist organization.
We're already hearing about back history of this guy, and a very concrete picture of mental illness is developing. You can't pin that on religion.

As far as I'm concerned, a mentally ill individual shot and killed Cpl. Cirillo. Everything else is just context.

Idk, the way i see it is the guy acted because of his radicalism. He was most likely mentally ill as you said. Seems to me he was just a weak minded man who was easily susceptible to being convinced to kill for religion. In my mind the mentally ill in some cases just prove to be easier to be radicalized.

 

[BonkTastic]

as an ex-muslim I have absolutely no problem in bashing Islam, but as a rational man I am willing two see both sides of the story before drawing an objective conclusion and discussing it publicly.

Hey, quick question: as a (very, very obviously) non-Muslim dude currently living in the world's largest Muslim country (Indonesia), have you ever had any issues with apostasy in Canada?

I'm wondering what the culture is like in Canada. Indonesia's not great for apostates, but it's a much more liberal brand of Islam over here than it is in the middle east. Do you ever get **** from the Islamic community in Canada, or is it a live-and-let-live thing?


If it's too personal a question, I totally understand. I certainly won't begrudge you for not answering.

 

[DJB]

Harper has been absolutely terrible. Can't wait for Justin Trudeau.

Sorry but Trudeau is a joke, nothing but riding Daddy's coatails. And if it wasn't for papa Trudeau, a lot of immigration to Canada never would have taken place.

 

[DJB]

Does anyone know if the war monument guards always carry those 'fake/prop' guns or whether they are only used during ceremonies etc?

Always have them.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Lol what?

Let's leave discrimination out of this...there have not been many occasions of of recent shootings where we can say the root cause of this was the shooters mental instability, yet ignorance and fear mongering insists on linking this to Islamic terrorism. We should be grateful it was not that, this time and hopefully the last time the great people of our nation are threatened. Spreading fear about terrorism will do more harm than good, people need to educate themselves more on this shooting before spreading propaganda, otherwise you're just undoing what the media and state officials are doing to assure our people it is not terrorism, and you are instead helping groups like ISIS by getting their names out there.

Edit: I know I have a bad rep on these boards from previous history and I've been trying to come on these boards with a lighter heart these days...but I will say this, I apologize if I sounded condescending (and I probably did) in my paragraph above, but let me also say one more thing...as an ex-muslim I have absolutely no problem in bashing Islam (sorry mods, you can remove that bit if you want), but as a rational man I am willing to do research in order to see both sides of the story before drawing an objective conclusion and discussing it publicly, so for me personally, saying anything against Islam in this particular situation is ignorant and unfair to Muslims. This is my opinion though, some of you may continue to link this to Islam and I'm okay with that, but I just wanted to give my thoughts on the topic of religion.

American media has already been quick to say this was an act of Islamic terrorism. I'm still waiting to find a concrete response from a government official but i have had yet to see one. There are many things that one can say point in the direction of this being Islamic terrorism. Without going through them all, Bibeau's email has recently been found on a hardrive for a computer owned by a man who has been formally charged with conspiracy to commit terrorist acts or something. His father moved back to Libya to fight against Gaddafi. The man is reported to of had a religious awakening before he committed this act. Just found a quote saying RCMP commoner Bob Paulson said that Bibeau had extremist views

 

[ottawa]

Hey, quick question: as a (very, very obviously) non-Muslim dude currently living in the world's largest Muslim country (Indonesia), have you ever had any issues with apostasy in Canada?

I'm wondering what the culture is like in Canada. Indonesia's not great for apostates, but it's a much more liberal brand of Islam over here than it is in the middle east. Do you ever get **** from the Islamic community in Canada, or is it a live-and-let-live thing?


If it's too personal a question, I totally understand. I certainly won't begrudge you for not answering.

I don't mind talking about this stuff so don't worry about offending me (you didn't).

My parents and family are okay with it, I've told my family I don't believe in religion and my sisters didn't care at all, my parents were disappointed but they didn't make anything out of it or even argue about it because they love their son more than religion. I think a lot of that has to do with being culturalized, they came from Pakistan I think about 28 years ago (4 years before I was born) so I'm glad they learned our great Canadian culture...parents kill their own kids in Pakistan if they renounce their religion, messed up. I highly doubt my parents would do that but that should give you an idea of how religious that country is. So I'm assuming that's how Indonesia is?

So to answer your question, my parents have accepted the Canadian culture of religious openness and don't care about my atheism. But I'll be honest with you, I do lie about being a Muslim to people from their mosque (even though I almost never go), because I wouldn't want them to judge my parents (i.e. "oh look, their the parents with the atheist kid") since mosques tend to be tight knit people where people talk to each other on the reg. If they found out about me, they wouldn't do anything to me...if I lived in a muslim country it mint have been different lol.

 

[ottawa]

American media has already been quick to say this was an act of Islamic terrorism. I'm still waiting to find a concrete response from a government official but i have had yet to see one. There are many things that one can say point in the direction of this being Islamic terrorism. Without going through them all, Bibeau's email has recently been found on a hardrive for a computer owned by a man who has been formally charged with conspiracy to commit terrorist acts or something. His father moved back to Libya to fight against Gaddafi. The man is reported to of had a religious awakening before he committed this act. Just found a quote saying RCMP commoner Bob Paulson said that Bibeau had extremist views

I think using that against the shooter to link him to terrorism is kind of controversial. The group fighting Gaddafi was the Libyan Freedom Fighters and they're could be a strong argument made for them being in positive light rather than negative.

And I don't deny the implications Islam had in his actions, I just question whether his cases of mental instability should be given precedence when discussing the cause of the results since his mental problems had an impact on his life before religion did. As you said, he allegedly had a religious awakening before he committed his attacks, so in other words his religiousness came recently, so perhaps mental instability played a larger role in this than Islam.

Edit: also I just want to note, and this is not directed at you, but a 'religious awakening' doesn't imply terrorism, I have many friends that had 'religious awakenings', Muslims and Christians, but none of them committed terrorist attacks.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Not a Beatles fan at all, but John Lennon had it right. The World would be an amazing place without religion or politics.

Sadly, all we can do is Imagine. It'll never be reality.



Edit:

To add, it really feels like a big awakening for me over the last few days. I'm on vacation from work this week, so I have plenty of time to waste. Ever since this event started, I've been glued to the TV and various message boards. I'm just.....mesmerized at the difference in outlooks about what happened when looking at various US sites like CNN, Fox et all, compared to in here and CBC and local Facebook pages.

I feel so humbled and amazed at the wonderful humanitarian quality of my fellow Canadians and gentle spirit. For so many people to stand up right away and defend the go-to first targets (Muslims, religion, extremism), to have so much warmth and empathy across the board and, even though it happened in our backyard, the strength of will to still refuse to throw away our freedoms for police-state style security.....I'm just overwhelmed right now.

I don't know what it is with this country, if there's something special in the water or air or what....but, damn it guys, we are so damned lucky to be living here. So lucky to have a nation full of such amazing people. So much heart.

I said a day or two ago that we're no Mayberry or Brigadoon.....I might be wrong about that. There is definitely something special and unique about this country. I am so proud and humbled to be Canadian and to live amongst so many amazing people.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

I think using that against the shooter to link him to terrorism is kind of controversial. The group fighting Gaddafi was the Libyan Freedom Fighters and they're could be a strong argument made for them being in positive light rather than negative.

And I don't deny the implications Islam had in his actions, I just question whether his cases of mental instability should be given precedence when discussing the cause of the results since his mental problems had an impact on his life before religion did. As you said, he allegedly had a religious awakening before he committed his attacks, so in other words his religiousness came recently, so perhaps mental instability played a larger role in this than Islam.

Edit: also I just want to note, and this is not directed at you, but a 'religious awakening' doesn't imply terrorism, I have many friends that had 'religious awakenings', Muslims and Christians, but none of them committed terrorist attacks.

I know religious awakening doesnt mean terrorism. I was just making the case that this man recently became devout and likely had influences from perverted forms of Islam. I thought his father moving back to Libya was worth noting. Not for its relation to terror though.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Not a Beatles fan at all, but John Lennon had it right. The World would be an amazing place without religion or politics.

Sadly, all we can do is Imagine. It'll never be reality.

Maybe.. I sometimes find myself wondering where the world would be without religion. In general i think its more of a positive thing. Its people who pervert it.

 

[BonkTastic]

I don't mind talking about this stuff so don't worry about offending me (you didn't).

My parents and family are okay with it, I've told my family I don't believe in religion and my sisters didn't care at all, my parents were disappointed but they didn't make anything out of it or even argue about it because they love their son more than religion. I think a lot of that has to do with being culturalized, they came from Pakistan I think about 28 years ago (4 years before I was born) so I'm glad they learned our great Canadian culture...parents kill their own kids in Pakistan if they renounce their religion, messed up. I highly doubt my parents would do that but that should give you an idea of how religious that country is. So I'm assuming that's how Indonesia is?

So to answer your question, my parents have accepted the Canadian culture of religious openness and don't care about my atheism. But I'll be honest with you, I do lie about being a Muslim to people from their mosque (even though I almost never go), because I wouldn't want them to judge my parents (i.e. "oh look, their the parents with the atheist kid") since mosques tend to be tight knit people where people talk to each other on the reg. If they found out about me, they wouldn't do anything to me...if I lived in a muslim country it mint have been different lol.

Nice to hear your parents are OK with it.

Here in Indo, it's not as bad as Pakistan, I don't think. Depends where you are. Indonesian Islam is pretty liberal compared to the rest of the world. Where I am, in Jakarta, it's definitely frowned upon, but it's not the end of the world for a lot of families. Once you get into the rural areas though, it's a much bigger deal.

 

[ottawa]

Nice to hear your parents are OK with it.

Here in Indo, it's not as bad as Pakistan, I don't think. Depends where you are. Indonesian Islam is pretty liberal compared to the rest of the world. Where I am, in Jakarta, it's definitely frowned upon, but it's not the end of the world for a lot of families. Once you get into the rural areas though, it's a much bigger deal.

It's not as extreme in every parts there too, but my particular sect is a special case because it was the last one in Islam and it is slightly modernized (in the sense it got rid of/changed a few customs). I don't want to get into details because most people here don't care and also due to it being OT and I wouldn't want either one of us getting an infraction. But long story short; people from my family's sect tend to get killed because it isn't recognized as a real sect despite there being millions in pakistan alone, and millions more outside. And the people doing the killing get off rather easily due to a law basically encouraging to commit murder.

Glad I was born here lol.

 

[bacon25]

Not a Beatles fan at all, but John Lennon had it right. The World would be an amazing place without religion or politics.]

As well intentioned and seemingly great as it sounds, I still don't understand why this quote is used, the fact is, this quote is completely pointless. Yes it would be great if we could all sit around the campfire singing kumbaya, but truth is that won't happen even if you could get rid of the two. Without politics and religion the world most likely would be in the same state if not worst. Humanity has organized itself into a pretty decent society, religion and politics helped do that. A more secular history would have the same problems we face today- war, suicide, racism, etc... would still exist. Lennon's ideas should be taken in context, which was the counterculture movement of the 60's when the government was forcing college students to go to Vietnam. /rant


http://listverse.com/2012/05/12/top-10-unpleasant-facts-about-john-lennon/

http://carm.org/religion-cause-war

 

[Upgrayedd]

Yikes that security footage released is going to be a nightmare for officials to deal with, clearly mistakes were made.

 

[littleD]

The guard inside Centre Block who was shot. Can someone find his name?

 

[Sens Rule]

Sorry but Trudeau is a joke, nothing but riding Daddy's coatails. And if it wasn't for papa Trudeau, a lot of immigration to Canada never would have taken place.

If only there was less immigration then these two attacks by CANADIANS BORN HERE might never have happened.

Too bad we didn't elect the Klan in the 1970's instead of the Trudeau Liberals. Eh?

 

[TribalPhoenix]

Wanted to ask - what is it like around Parliament Hill/War Memorial right now? Are people allowed there?

Was toying with the idea of driving there this weekend, but no point if it's going to be inaccessible.