Rumor: Sheltered ice time myth

[ECWHSWI]

So that we may finish high in the standings and do well in the playoffs. You forget about that. The players are used properly.

DD only makes 3.5M. So yeah our center getting the most O-zone starts isn't a star player... His cap hit reflects that. But we're still spending close to the cap. That means that our strength is elsewhere. On the wing with Pacioretty, or another center in Plekanec. On D with Subban and Markov and in net with Price.They have higher cap hits and are better players. DD is a support player in a crucial role. Ideally you'd want a star player in that spot. But we don't have that player at the moment.

Eventually Galchenyuk will replace DD. Perhaps even this season. Would be great if people could stop crying about the present situation so much because there's not much MB can do about it but wait until Galchenyuk grows into a better player. AG will have the whole camp to show what he can do at center.

DD is hardly bringing the team down. He's actually contributing to our success considering how low a cap hit he has. But instead of seeing him as an asset people cry non-stop about his presence on the team and how terrible he is. It's almost childlike how some of you get on his case non-stop. Try to move on.



When DD gets traded or leaves via free agency, I wonder which poor local player will the HF blood hounds turn their attention to.

and you wonder why people arent happy with the whole thing ?

 

[JLP]

...On the Habs the most Non-sheltered minute are Desharnais' line.

If you look at it that way...

Desharnais is sheltered because he gets the best wingers and the most O-zone starts and top PP time, no PK time. Not complicated.

 

[Rapala]

and you wonder why people arent happy with the whole thing ?

Can someone take it a step further and explain what kind of support player DD is supposed to be?
I disagree wholeheartedly. DD is/was our best option in a purely offensive role.
It just happens to be a position that has limitations we can't accept if we are to continue progressing as a team. Once again nothing Davey did or didn't do he just isn't part of the solution in many peoples minds. The call for change up the middle will not go away until we have a bonafide 1A+.

 

[habsfanatics*]

I agree for the most part with the OP. When you're attached to a 40 goal scorer you're really not being sheltered. Sure, you get the o-zone starts, because deploying them that way makes sense. The other side is also true, DD didn't get tough assignments on the defensive end, but how much of the high % of offensive zone starts is offset by the opponents playing their Pleks in the d-zone? I mean, most teams have a group they lean on more in the d-zone, meaning our guys getting the o-zone starts are facing other teams d-zone specialist/defensive catalysts. I'm not so sure one outweighs the other by that much.

 

[Kriss E]

Can someone take it a step further and explain what kind of support player DD is supposed to be?
I disagree wholeheartedly. DD is/was our best option in a purely offensive role.
It just happens to be a position that has limitations we can't accept if we are to continue progressing as a team. Once again nothing Davey did or didn't do he just isn't part of the solution in many peoples minds. The call for change up the middle will not go away until we have a bonafide 1A+.

That's simply not true. DD is there by default, not because he's our best option.
Plekanec would be the best option, every time he was giving in a more offensive role, he scored over 60pts, a feat DD has never achieved.
We screwed up last year by not building a strong defensive 4th line. We had to drop Plekanec's off.zone starts to below 40%! That's insane. That's 3rd-4th line numbers.
Out of the 374 forwards to have played over 40 games, Plekanec ranked 345th.
That's absolutely ridiculous.

We didn't use Plekanec this way because he isn't good offensively anymore, it's because we had to compensate from having two lines that weren't really good defensively.

Put him in a more offensive role and he would outproduce DD.
Eller also was able to produce some good numbers when he was given more opportunities.

There's no reason to believe DD is our best option in a pure offensive role. We know for a fact Plekanec has done better, Eller we haven't tried so it's tough to say but he's show potential. Only way we tap into that potential is to actually try him.
Galy could be a better option as well, impossible to know at this point.

 

[Whitesnake]

the real issue, and i'd assume it's the same for other posters, is that the sheltering is given to a 50 pts player...

does Crosby get more Ozone starts ? probably, but hey! on an injury free season he'll get you 100+ pts... does Stamkos get favourable matchups ? probably too, but the guy can score 50...

on the Habs, we HAVE to give favourable mathup to our #1C so he may get 50 pts...

Thing is Plekanec, nor Eller are still Stamkos or Crosby material. Pleks had 1 69-point and 1 70-point season so far. His 69 point season he had it when his winger had a 84 point season. We are a more defensive team oriented and frankly, sheltered or not, so far, I don't see any of our C's get 75 points until Galchy is ready.

 

[Sorinth]

Yet, depending of how much we like or not a player, we will be seen as being sheltered for a certain player, will be seen as a wise usage for another. Incredible that at one point, we keep criticizing the coach for not having the right matchups, but when he does, he's "sheltering"??? Of course, the best would be to send whoever, but then that whoever is so great, that you don't shelter them....you just let other teams take care of your player. But we don't have a Bergeron. Nor a Stamkos or whoever. As great as he is, Plekanec does a fine job....but he's not top 20 in C of this league. But he's the best we've got defensively.

When sheltering comes at the expense of rest of the team then isn't the criticism deserved? In 2012-2013 Desharnais's zone starts were even higher, yet there was less complaints about sheltering compared to last season because in 2012-2013 the other lines weren't still near 50% zone starts.

But in the end I responded to a post saying that Desharnais playing against Filppula makes him less sheltered or at best equal to playig against Stamkos. We can debate whether Therrien made the right decision sheltering DD, but to say DD faced the toughest minutes is insane to me.

I can tell you this....the day that Therrien stops "sheltering" DD and starts using him more in the defensive zone, making Pacioretty produce less.....or making himself look bad defensively.....Therrien will go from "sheltering DD" to "being stupid for using DD in such manner". Frankly, there's no situation for Therrien to win here. And like I said before, putting him on the wings, I guess we could try, would not work and would be bashed.....Only thing people who keeps shouting "sheltering" wants is to see DD gone. And they totally don't care what we get in return. Personnally, while some don't think his usage is a wise decision as far as personnel management, I also believe that trading him, without knowing Galchy's situation, Pleks evolution or lack thereof and Eller improvement, is also not wise personnel management.

You're wrong if Therrien shelters Desharnais less and his production suffers they won't say Therrien is stupid, they'll say Desharnais sucks

Trading Desharnais before having complete certainty in Plekanec/Eller/Galchenyuk maybe a risk, but I don't think it's a very big one, and it doesn't mean it's not the right decision. I have no problem with trying Desharnais at wing, in fact I think he'd probably be equally effective there which would be quite useful for us.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

and you wonder why people arent happy with the whole thing ?

And for how many years has this been the case ? When is the last time we've had a star first line center ? Why the outcry now ? Especially now that the light is possibly at the end of the tunnel with Galchenyuk, just have to be patient. Not like anything can be done right now.

 

[Whitesnake]

But in the end I responded to a post saying that Desharnais playing against Filppula makes him less sheltered or at best equal to playig against Stamkos. We can debate whether Therrien made the right decision sheltering DD, but to say DD faced the toughest minutes is insane to me.

I don't think that was ever in question. What is though is to resume "tough minutes" ONLY in zone starts. That's where I don't agree. Nobody ever responds to "but how is he able to not be terrible on away rinks"??? Even if he still gets o-zone starts...shouldn't he face better competition as his line was the only offensive line of the team?

You're wrong if Therrien shelters Desharnais less and his production suffers they won't say Therrien is stupid, they'll say Desharnais sucks

Good point.

 

[Kriss E]

Thing is Plekanec, nor Eller are still Stamkos or Crosby material. Pleks had 1 69-point and 1 70-point season so far. His 69 point season he had it when his winger had a 84 point season. We are a more defensive team oriented and frankly, sheltered or not, so far, I don't see any of our C's get 75 points until Galchy is ready.

And he had his 70pt season playing with a 50pt winger and a 33pt one.
What you'll notice from his two career years is that he was a lot less used defensively.

 

[Rapala]

There's no reason to believe DD is our best option in a pure offensive role. We know for a fact Plekanec has done better, Eller we haven't tried so it's tough to say but he's show potential. Only way we tap into that potential is to actually try him.
Galy could be a better option as well, impossible to know at this point.

Best perceived option...

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Tomas Plekanec is a better player than David Krejci...

You can't possibly be serious.

 

[Kriss E]

Best perceived option...

Sure, I can agree with that. As you know, perception=/=reality, that's why it's important to test other options.
It's like playing a card game and not looking at our entire hand.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

That's simply not true. DD is there by default, not because he's our best option.
Plekanec would be the best option, every time he was giving in a more offensive role, he scored over 60pts, a feat DD has never achieved.
We screwed up last year by not building a strong defensive 4th line. We had to drop Plekanec's off.zone starts to below 40%! That's insane. That's 3rd-4th line numbers.
Out of the 374 forwards to have played over 40 games, Plekanec ranked 345th.
That's absolutely ridiculous.

We didn't use Plekanec this way because he isn't good offensively anymore, it's because we had to compensate from having two lines that weren't really good defensively.

Put him in a more offensive role and he would outproduce DD.
Eller also was able to produce some good numbers when he was given more opportunities.

There's no reason to believe DD is our best option in a pure offensive role. We know for a fact Plekanec has done better, Eller we haven't tried so it's tough to say but he's show potential. Only way we tap into that potential is to actually try him.
Galy could be a better option as well, impossible to know at this point.

Since 2012 when DD became a full time player on the team he has outperformed Plekanec offensively. He is our top center offensively. I don't see why people hate that. Anybody who wants us to play Pleks more offensively and DD less are just out to lunch. Plekanec is a declining, albeit still effective player, and honestly should have been traded in the off season as I suspect after next season when he is a year older and what I suspect will be about the same or slightly worse offensively his value will be much lower.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

And he had his 70pt season playing with a 50pt winger and a 33pt one.
What you'll notice from his two career years is that he was a lot less used defensively.

That was also 4 seasons ago, he has declined considerably since then.

 

[Rapala]

And for how many years has this been the case ? When is the last time we've had a star first line center ? Why the outcry now ? Especially now that the light is possibly at the end of the tunnel with Galchenyuk, just have to be patient. Not like anything can be done right now.

This has been the case like forever.
Saku was our last real shot at it but he digressed after his first serious injury his Rookie year.
Plecky showed promise until his "I played like a little girl" comment. Wasn't that against the Canes the year they won or against tbe Flyers in the ECF? Either way he became touted for his Dplay not long after. The thing about it is the closer Habs Fans sense they are to Glory the greater the hue and cry will become if they think it will put them over the top...

 

[Mr Mom]

He has been sheltered and coddled beyond belief.
Simply, DD makes our team worse.
One of the only things that I don't like about how management runs things is that
They put the name on the back AHEAD of the LOGO on the front !!!

 

[Rapala]

He has been sheltered and coddled beyond belief.
Simply, DD makes our team worse.
One of the only things that I don't like about how management runs things is that
They put the name on the back AHEAD of the LOGO on the front !!!

Wow you feel very strongly about this issue.
I think management have highlighted the need but don't expect any ground shaking developments any time soon.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

That was also 4 seasons ago, he has declined considerably since then.

Based on what? His decline on production? Well maybe that's because his linemates weren't as good as Kovalev and Kostitsyn back then?

Plek can still score 20 goals but for assists, sometime its hard to get them when you play with a declining Gionta.. or players like Darche, Bournival, Bourque, Prust, Moen in the past 3 years.

Not saying he's as good but I'm pretty sure if Plekanec was used in DD's role, he could still hit ~20g/40a/60pts rather easily.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Wow you feel very strongly about this issue.
I think management have highlighted the need but don't expect any ground shaking developments any time soon.

Just look at his name, he's clearly got some sort of vendetta against Desharnais.

 

[Kriss E]

Since 2012 when DD became a full time player on the team he has outperformed Plekanec offensively. He is our top center offensively. I don't see why people hate that. Anybody who wants us to play Pleks more offensively and DD less are just out to lunch. Plekanec is a declining, albeit still effective player, and honestly should have been traded in the off season as I suspect after next season when he is a year older and what I suspect will be about the same or slightly worse offensively his value will be much lower.

Because it isn't true.
You haven't paid much attention to usage between DD and Plek if you think that the former is ahead offensively.
I'd bet my life savings that if Plekanec was used the way DD has been over the past 3 years he would have outproduced him, and by quite a bit too.

And you're wrong for next year. Again, if you paid attention to usage, you wouldn't say that.
Plekanec was 345th out of 375 players for off.zone starts last year. He's in the company of 3rd and 4th liners. This is while also getting the toughest competition and just decent wingers.
What killed Plekanec last year was us not being able to rely on a decent 4th line to take on more defensive duties. Because of that, Plekanec was given even more defensive responsibilities compared to the previous year (where he outproduced DD, and would likely have done it again this past year had he been used the same way).
So with Maholtra coming in, who's not only a very good defensive player but also a faceoff specialist, I think it's fair to assume he's going to remove a nice load of defensive responsibilities from Plek's shoulders.

I'd put money on Plekanec going back to his 50+ ways next year, especially if his wingers are competent offensively.

There's actually no reason to believe DD is better offensively than Plekanec when you start to analyze the situations both players were placed in.
If all you do is look at points, then ya, sure, you'll be mislead as you have.

 

[Mr Mom]

I have watched the Habs for 35 years.......
The most disappointing Hab I have ever watched is dd.
Why? Because he shouldn't even be on the ice.
No other NHL team would have dressed him.
Sure, we have had worse players since 1980.....
But, we're ANY of them a ####### FIRST LINE CENTER !!!!!
Of course not....
He makes every aspect of our game worse... powerplay, Patches, our defensive game, our size etc..etc
Sorry people, I truly believe that their is one reason why he is on the team.....
And the team and the fans SUFFER for it.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

I have watched the Habs for 35 years.......
The most disappointing Hab I have ever watched is dd.
Why? Because he shouldn't even be on the ice.
No other NHL team would have dressed him.
Sure, we have had worse players since 1980.....
But, we're ANY of them a ####### FIRST LINE CENTER !!!!!
Of course not....
He makes every aspect of our game worse... powerplay, Patches, our defensive game, our size etc..etc
Sorry people, I truly believe that their is one reason why he is on the team.....
And the team and the fans SUFFER for it.

Come on man.. stop trolling.

 

[THE HOFF]

Just a little FYI, Bergeron is Boston's 2nd center behind Krejci.

sounds like splitting hairs to me, I'd pick Bergeron over ''grilledcheese'' 7 days of the week and 2 times on sunday.

I mean I'm not blind I can see why people wish for more than Desharnais as a 1C. All I can say to those people is that we expected NOTHING from this guy and he proved us all wrong. He is NHL material. I really thought he had strong playoffs, I was amazed at how strong he looked on the boards, outmuscling chara at times I couldn't believe it. He won't look that strong for 82 games mostly because of his frame, but If he's willing to get his hands dirty comes playoff time, he's ahead of a lot of habs/former habs in my book.

Where he fits in the depth chart ? I don't know, I don't care. We went from last to top tier team and I always thought he was a big part in that, as was the rest of the team.

 

[Rapala]

Based on what? His decline on production? Well maybe that's because his linemates weren't as good as Kovalev and Kostitsyn back then?

Plek can still score 20 goals but for assists, sometime its hard to get them when you play with a declining Gionta.. or players like Darche, Bournival, Bourque, Prust, Moen in the past 3 years.

Not saying he's as good but I'm pretty sure if Plekanec was used in DD's role, he could still hit ~20g/40a/60pts rather easily.

MT tried just about everyone on his left except for Patch.
i was screaming for him in the PO's when he was in a drought thinking a different role might be beneficial for him (take his mind off strictly scoring) it never happened.

It's hard to know for sure what may happen this year but i think the Vanek factor will be felt early on.
The dude was one sick playmaker if anything but one lazy *^#+<<#%**}%^.
We may be back to having only one line working on any given night... sigh
The saving grace may actually come from the backend.
I for one will not miss JG ringing it around the boards...