Rumor: Sheltered ice time myth

[groovejuice]

And he had his 70pt season playing with a 50pt winger and a 33pt one.
What you'll notice from his two career years is that he was a lot less used defensively.

I'd also add to this that Plekanec's International history is revealing. His offensive stats in those tournaments are much better than his recent ones here.

He still plays a mature and effective two-way game, but also produces points because he gets great wingers.

For all we know, he could still be our best offensive centre. Regrettably, I don't see a scenario where he'd get the opportunity.

 

[Wats]

I'm not sure people actually understand what people mean by shelter and how the Habs do it...

DD's line monopolizes offensive zone situations so whether it's the road or home, opposition teams are highly unlikely to match their top lines against it. Why? Simple reason they don't want to start their best offensives lines in the D-Zone too much. Now come playoffs, opposition teams will be not only more likely to use their lines more but also the opposition teams are likely deep enough to not worry too much about using a top line (like Bergeron) vs DD.

The only thing the home/away thing changes is the frequency of the opposition coaches making the decision and matching their top D pairing. In terms of quality of lines DD faces, there is no doubt he gets sheltered.

 

[Rapala]

I'd also add to this that Plekanec's International history is revealing. His offensive stats in those tournaments are much better than his recent ones here.

He still plays a mature and effective two-way game, but also produces points because he gets great wingers.

For all we know, he could still be our best offensive centre. Regrettably, I don't see a scenario where he'd get the opportunity.

God forbid an Injury to XX... might

 

[THE HOFF]

I'm not sure people actually understand what people mean by shelter and how the Habs do it...

DD's line monopolizes offensive zone situations so whether it's the road or home, opposition teams are highly unlikely to match their top lines against it. Why? Simple reason they don't want to start their best offensives lines in the D-Zone too much. Now come playoffs, opposition teams will be not only more likely to use their lines more but also the opposition teams are likely deep enough to not worry too much about using a top line (like Bergeron) vs DD.

The only thing the home/away thing changes is the frequency of the opposition coaches making the decision and matching their top D pairing. In terms of quality of lines DD faces, there is no doubt he gets sheltered.

so by your standards all 1rst lines are sheltered. great insight.

 

[Rapala]

I'm not sure people actually understand what people mean by shelter and how the Habs do it...

DD's line monopolizes offensive zone situations so whether it's the road or home, opposition teams are highly unlikely to match their top lines against it. Why? Simple reason they don't want to start their best offensives lines in the D-Zone too much.

The only thing the home/away thing changes is the frequency of the opposition coaches making the decision and matching their top D pairing. In terms of quality of lines DD faces, there is no doubt he gets sheltered.

It really depends on the Coach's philosophy.
Many teams have those guys who just happens to excel at both sides of the game.
Almost the Entire Team Canada for example.
They don't get to hung up on line matching...
Sheltering isn't part if tneir vocabulary.

 

[Kriss E]

sounds like splitting hairs to me, I'd pick Bergeron over ''grilledcheese'' 7 days of the week and 2 times on sunday.

I mean I'm not blind I can see why people wish for more than Desharnais as a 1C. All I can say to those people is that we expected NOTHING from this guy and he proved us all wrong. He is NHL material. I really thought he had strong playoffs, I was amazed at how strong he looked on the boards, outmuscling chara at times I couldn't believe it. He won't look that strong for 82 games mostly because of his frame, but If he's willing to get his hands dirty comes playoff time, he's ahead of a lot of habs/former habs in my book.

Where he fits in the depth chart ? I don't know, I don't care. We went from last to top tier team and I always thought he was a big part in that, as was the rest of the team.

I have no issues with DD, I actually like his game. I have an issue with him being our go-to offensive center.

 

[THE HOFF]

I have no issues with DD, I actually like his game. I have an issue with him being our go-to offensive center.

do we have better ? until maxpac decides he feels like scoring with another center, we're pretty much stuck imho. Unless Bork starts walking on water smashing away eller's visionary passes that are all tap ins, that is. (has anyone seen eller provide a tap in?)

 

[Rapala]

do we have better ? until maxpac decides he feels like scoring with another center, we're pretty much stuck imho. Unless Bork starts walking on water smashing away eller's visionary passes that are all tap ins, that is. (has anyone seen eller provide a tap in?)

Max's new found leadership skills should help wean him off DD.
His affinity for DD it completely understandable as he was a catalyst for him in Ham. when he had to find his game. He did score 39 goals last year but managed to have some serious down time just the same. I expect more from him and his disappearing act in a number of those PO games was disappointing. Max needs to grasp the fact that just because he isn't scoring there are other things he can do well besides sulking.

 

[groovejuice]

do we have better ? until maxpac decides he feels like scoring with another center, we're pretty much stuck imho. Unless Bork starts walking on water smashing away eller's visionary passes that are all tap ins, that is. (has anyone seen eller provide a tap in?)

I believe that Pacioretti's recent remarks about wanting to be a leader totally debunks these frivolous comments about playing with other centres.

He's been successful with DD, likes him, supports him. He won't stop playing with someone else.

He will however, need time to develop chemistry.

Now's the time.

 

[Kriss E]

do we have better ? until maxpac decides he feels like scoring with another center, we're pretty much stuck imho. Unless Bork starts walking on water smashing away eller's visionary passes that are all tap ins, that is. (has anyone seen eller provide a tap in?)

I believe we do have better yes. Plekanec is better, I don't think that's even a question. Not when you look at more than just points.
Eller is young and developing his game, he's not going to develop his offensive game playing on a 3rd line with terrible players or grinders. But he's shown enough potential to earn a chance.
Finally, I see no reason to believe Galchenyuk couldn't put up 50pts if he was used in DD's spot given the fact he's already averaging a .5ppg pace career wise.

So no, I don't think we're in that tight spot with no better options many seem to believe.

 

[THE HOFF]

I believe that Pacioretti's recent remarks about wanting to be a leader totally debunks these frivolous comments about playing with other centres.

He's been successful with DD, likes him, supports him. He won't stop playing with someone else.

He will however, need time to develop chemistry.

Now's the time.

the only reason maxpac isn't the captain already is because he whines when he's not playing with DD. just saying.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

do we have better ? until maxpac decides he feels like scoring with another center, we're pretty much stuck imho. Unless Bork starts walking on water smashing away eller's visionary passes that are all tap ins, that is. (has anyone seen eller provide a tap in?)

Yes we do.

We have:

Plek has shown he could be better in similar circumstances/role

Eller has shown it in the shortened season and in this last playoffs, all he needs his decent linemates.. like Galchenyuk/Gallagher, like the good Bourque/Gionta, like AK/Moen.

Galchenyuk who is more offensively talented than DD. He just need a period for adaptation and he's gonna make the first line a lot better than what we have now.


None of them had the chance to play as a legit top offensive role in the past 2 years and they all have shown signs that they could do a better job in some periods in those 3 years.

While, DD after having a bad shortened season 28pts in 48 games.. started the next season with 1 pt in 19 games.. Coach give him all the opportunities (over 60 games) for him and Pacioretty to find their magic while none of Plekanec, Eller, Galchenyuk even had the chance to play 2 straight games with Pacioretty and the best RW.

Saying we don't have a better center than DD is just denying the truth.

Also.. let's not pretend like DD set the bar that high..

80pts in his last 127 regular season games = .62 ppg = 51pts for 82 games
Add the playoffs game and he drops to: 89pts in 149 games = 0.59 ppg = 48pts for 82 games

That's the number of a center that plays in the best offensive situations, with the best wingers, on the first wave of the PP probably more than half of the time..

 

[groovejuice]

the only reason maxpac isn't the captain already is because he whines when he's not playing with DD. just saying.

I don't really believe he's whining. He's supporting his comrade.

 

[Mario le Magnifique]

MT tried just about everyone on his left except for Patch.
i was screaming for him in the PO's when he was in a drought thinking a different role might be beneficial for him (take his mind off strictly scoring) it never happened.

It's hard to know for sure what may happen this year but i think the Vanek factor will be felt early on.
The dude was one sick playmaker if anything but one lazy *^#+<<#%**}%^.
We may be back to having only one line working on any given night... sigh
The saving grace may actually come from the backend.
I for one will not miss JG ringing it around the boards...

On this topic, yet another DD this and that thread, so tired of this idiot fanbase.

About this post, dont forget the addition of PAP, whos playmaking ability will be very welcomed to Plekanec's side. Those two can potentially find chemistry and Montreal will be icing two very potent scoring lines.

On DD topic I agree with the OP, but this is just troll baiting to come here and try to prove the idiots wrong. All of them dont have any credibility whatsoever anyways. We can all agree that DD isnt a superstar no1 center but he isnt as sheltered as his haters are trying to portray him, and he isnt as bad defensively as they are trying to portray him. Sure, the coach uses his players to win, so obviously hes putting Plek in defensive situations, followed by Eller, and when an offensive oportunity arrises he puts DD, because like I said, hate the guy or not hes a very competent passer and has chemistry with out best goalscorer. For sure though, we need an upgrade at center to be a Stanley cup contender.

I think what could be tried ar camp
Pac - Plekanec - PAP - your go to all situations line
DD - Gally - Gallagher - heavy sheltered line
Sekac - Eller - Bourque - your second two way line

Im pretty sure this could work, PAP has proven in the past he can feed good shooters and is a much more complete and possession player than DD, that line could potentially be very dominant both sides of the ice. That said, shipping DD for nothing is out of question. Were better with him than without.

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

On this topic, yet another DD this and that thread, so tired of this idiot fanbase.

About this post, dont forget the addition of PAP, whos playmaking ability will be very welcomed to Plekanec's side. Those two can potentially find chemistry and Montreal will be icing two very potent scoring lines.

On DD topic I agree with the OP, but this is just troll baiting to come here and try to prove the idiots wrong. All of them dont have any credibility whatsoever anyways. We can all agree that DD isnt a superstar no1 center but he isnt as sheltered as his haters are trying to portray him, and he isnt as bad defensively as they are trying to portray him. Sure, the coach uses his players to win, so obviously hes putting Plek in defensive situations, followed by Eller, and when an offensive oportunity arrises he puts DD, because like I said, hate the guy or not hes a very competent passer and has chemistry with out best goalscorer. For sure though, we need an upgrade at center to be a Stanley cup contender.

So anyone disagreeing with you are all morons and idiots?

Also, I'm pretty sure the "DD line was sheltered and Plekanec was our number one center because he faced tough opposition" was actually made by DD supporters to make us believe DD wasn't our first center.

 

[Rapala]

so by your standards all 1rst lines are sheltered. great insight.

Can anyone give me a definative answer to the question When did the term Shelter or Sheltered first enter hockey terminology?
For a 5 point bonus Why?

 

[Rapala]

On this topic, yet another DD this and that thread, so tired of this idiot fanbase.

About this post, dont forget the addition of PAP, whos playmaking ability will be very welcomed to Plekanec's side. Those two can potentially find chemistry and Montreal will be icing two very potent scoring lines.

On DD topic I agree with the OP, but this is just troll baiting to come here and try to prove the idiots wrong. All of them dont have any credibility whatsoever anyways. We can all agree that DD isnt a superstar no1 center but he isnt as sheltered as his haters are trying to portray him, and he isnt as bad defensively as they are trying to portray him. Sure, the coach uses his players to win, so obviously hes putting Plek in defensive situations, followed by Eller, and when an offensive oportunity arrises he puts DD, because like I said, hate the guy or not hes a very competent passer and has chemistry with out best goalscorer. For sure though, we need an upgrade at center to be a Stanley cup contender.

I think what could be tried ar camp
Pac - Plekanec - PAP - your go to all situations line
DD - Gally - Gallagher - heavy sheltered line
Sekac - Eller - Bourque - your second two way line

Im pretty sure this could work, PAP has proven in the past he can feed good shooters and is a much more complete and possession player than DD, that line could potentially be very dominant both sides of the ice. That said, shipping DD for nothing is out of question. Were better with him than without.

Yeah I forgot about PAP but he was sooo gifted to us i fear something may be amiss.
I hope he enjoys the circus that is MTL. Regarding DD he does seem to get dragged into just about every thread at some point regardless of what the initial topic happened to be. Every player discussion I've seen dealing with forwards will have his name included at some point

I still find there are some very excellent posts with salient points.
HF is like the Klondike the nuggets are few and far between.

 

[Alexdaman]

Hey look another Desharnais thread... Lets make a compilation of all the DD threads and we'll have ourselves a bible.

 

[MXD]

This thread started as relevant and became redundant by page 2. Strongly suggest locking.

 

[MXD]

So anyone disagreeing with you are all morons and idiots?

Also, I'm pretty sure the "DD line was sheltered and Plekanec was our number one center because he faced tough opposition" was actually made by DD supporters to make us believe DD wasn't our first center.

Tomas Plekanec is the Habs first center because he's the Habs best center.

 

[waffledave]

Stop jumping through hoops to try and spin things one way or other way.

At the end of the day, even the staunchest DD supporters admit that he isn't good enough to be our ideal #1 C.

At the end of the day, that's all the matters.

The fact that some are trying to spin this into a "local player love" or "local player hate" thing is so ****ing sad, I mean god damn it's 2014, can you not just shut the **** up with this garbage and move on? This victimization woe is me crap is so played out, nobody gives a **** if you're franco or anglo anymore, this isn't the 70's.

All that matters here is the question whether DD is enough to fill our #1 C spot. I think we need someone better, though we don't have that right now. Bergevin needs to go get someone. That's it.

 

[Blind Gardien]

This thread started as relevant and became redundant by page 2. Strongly suggest locking.

Concur.
/thread