Sheldon Keefe Discussion

[Twowingcantfly]

I have no sympathy for Babcock. He had some of the best young players in the league and decided it was a good idea to limit their minutes.

Dubas got him a big top pairing defensive D and Babcock bitched that he was the wrong hand.

Dubas got him vet leadership and he decides he doesn’t want that guy.

The GMs can only do so much with the players that are available. And Dubas’ teams have better D and just as much grit as Lou so let’s not pretend like there was a drastic change in the teams makeup. Unless you think Matt Martin and Leo Komarov, who were given minimal minutes, we significant contributions to “grit”.

As for your other comments, this team was significantly better defensively with Keefe than Babs...

A GM(a young one at that) would run it by his vet coach to see if a big ticket signing would fit in to his plans. JT signing soured Babcock. JT is an amazing player, but did not fit in to Babcock's plans.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

I don't remember Patrick Marleau playing on the Leafs penalty kill and Mike Babcock had no problem playing him every night or asking what his role would be.

That is my point Marleau, Matthews, Tavares cannot kill penalties, so why am I signing another player that can't kill them either

 

[ACC1224]

A GM(a young one at that) would run it by his vet coach to see if a big ticket signing would fit in to his plans. JT signing soured Babcock. JT is an amazing player, but did not fit in to Babcock's plans.

JT was a Babcock type player, 100%.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

JT was a Babcock type player, 100%.

You will never see JT stand in front a keeper either end of the ice. You will never see him rotate out to the point on a power play. So often our D men are criticized for their bad play when a forward take the wrong man. 60% of the time that forward is JT. Yup he is a Babcock type player 100%

 

[LeafsNation75]

JT was a Babcock type player, 100%.

Even before Tavares signed in Toronto he was coached by Babcock at the 2014 Olympics and 2016 World Cup of Hockey.

 

[Dreakmur]

JT was a Babcock type player, 100%.

Babcock wasn’t mad because of the player. He was mad that Dubas didn’t ask him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You will never see JT stand in front a keeper either end of the ice. You will never see him rotate out to the point on a power play.

He doesn't rotate out to the point on the powerplay BECAUSE he's usually standing in front of the keeper, being one of the best net front presences in the league...

Babcock wasn’t mad because of the player. He was mad that Dubas didn’t ask him.

Babcock was literally part of the meetings.

 

[SlpLessInMuskoka18]

Keefer has this team looking prime! Can't wait to crush the Habs

 

[Dreakmur]

Babcock was literally part of the meetings.

whoops, I thought we were still on the Muzzin train

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I have no sympathy for Babcock. He had some of the best young players in the league and decided it was a good idea to limit their minutes.

Dubas got him a big top pairing defensive D and Babcock bitched that he was the wrong hand.

Dubas got him vet leadership and he decides he doesn’t want that guy.

The GMs can only do so much with the players that are available. And Dubas’ teams have better D and just as much grit as Lou so let’s not pretend like there was a drastic change in the teams makeup. Unless you think Matt Martin and Leo Komarov, who were given minimal minutes, we significant contributions to “grit”.

As for your other comments, this team was significantly better defensively with Keefe than Babs...

Dubas gave him arguably the worst backup goalie the Leafs had in the past 20 years, in fact I don't think it's arguable, I am refering specifically to Hutchinson but Sparks is on that list too.

You can't give your coach 1 goalie, Andersen is not, Brodeur, nobody is you can't have a guy play 70+ games you need 2 goalies now.

Dubas's refusal to address the backup for nearly a year and a cost this team probably about 30 points total from September 2018-Febuary 2020.

You talk about the Muzzin trade that's a great trade but it wasn't enough and I said it at the time. When Martin Marincin is ONE injury from playing that's not enough.

Dubas did not provide Mike Babcock with the proper depth.

It looks like He's done that for Keefe, or at least tried to we will see if it works, for Dubas's sake it better because I'm not sure how many more times this team can lose in round 1 before we start looking at management

 

[The Podium]

You will never see JT stand in front a keeper either end of the ice. You will never see him rotate out to the point on a power play. So often our D men are criticized for their bad play when a forward take the wrong man. 60% of the time that forward is JT. Yup he is a Babcock type player 100%

JT is literally our front of the net man on the PP. He also is the grinder on his line and plays down low almost exclusively in the offensive zone. You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

Even before Tavares signed in Toronto he was coached by Babcock at the 2014 Olympics and 2016 World Cup of Hockey.

Exactly the reason Babs didn't want him. He saw first hand what was missing in his game

 

[The Podium]

Dubas gave him arguably the worst backup goalie the Leafs had in the past 20 years, in fact I don't think it's arguable, I am refering specifically to Hutchinson but Sparks is on that list too.

You can't give your coach 1 goalie, Andersen is not, Brodeur, nobody is you can't have a guy play 70+ games you need 2 goalies now.

Dubas's refusal to address the backup for nearly a year and a cost this team probably about 30 points total from September 2018-Febuary 2020.

You talk about the Muzzin trade that's a great trade but it wasn't enough and I said it at the time. When Martin Marincin is ONE injury from playing that's not enough.

Dubas did not provide Mike Babcock with the proper depth.

It looks like He's done that for Keefe, or at least tried to we will see if it works, for Dubas's sake it better because I'm not sure how many more times this team can lose in round 1 before we start looking at management

The whole backup debacle was a mess, but I don’t blame Dubas for the timeline. I’d rather Dubas have waited as he did for the perfect target than gamble on another one who may or may not have worked out.

Did it cost us points? Absolutely, but Babs didn’t help at all by purposefully giving hutch the hardest matchups possible.

Now I’m sure even if Hutch was given easier games his numbers wouldn’t look all that much better, but this is just another example of stubborn Babs not making the necessary adjustments.

As for the depth, Rome wasn’t built in a day. The depth wasn’t here before Dubas either and has been an on going problem with this team for decades. Dubas had been busy the previous 2 offseason with contract negotiations, housekeeping, etc. and couldn’t commit too much cap to depth as it would put this team in a position vulnerable to offersheets. It’s no surprise that the first offseason that he didn’t have to negotiate a big contract is the offseason he addressed depth, or at least attempted too.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

JT is literally our front of the net man on the PP. He also is the grinder on his line and plays down low almost exclusively in the offensive zone. You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

My point is he does not keep the screen(thinks he'll get hit by the puck). Easy save each time. You will see Mitch or any other Leaf block a shot. But never the Captain.

 

[The Podium]

My point is he does not keep the screen(thinks he'll get hit by the puck). Easy save each time. You will see Mitch or any other Leaf block a shot. But never the Captain.

Blocked shots since Tavares got here
Marner 80
Tavares 84

 

[meefer]

Blocked shots since Tavares got here
Marner 80
Tavares 84

Was just going to go there. Sometimes a little research helps.

 

[meefer]

2017/8 D by games (top 8). Lou after 3 years.

Gardiner
Hainsey
Rielly
Zaitsev
Polak
Borgman
Carrick
Dermott

2018/9 D by games. Kyle after 1 year

Rielly
Hainsey
Zaitsev
Dermott
Gardiner
Ozhiganov
Muzzin
Marincin

2019/20 D by games. Kyle after 2 years

Barrie
Holl
Dermott
Ceci
Muzzin
Rielly
Sandin
Marincin
(edit, forgot Barrie, dropped Liljegren)

2020/21 D by Anticipation. Kyle after 3 years

Rielly
Muzzin
Brodie
Dermott
Holl
Lehtonen
Bogosian
Sandin

Draw your own conclusions, but this to me looks suspiciously like consecutive yearly improvements of our D corp. I wonder if Keefe agrees?

 

[hotpaws]

JT is literally our front of the net man on the PP. He also is the grinder on his line and plays down low almost exclusively in the offensive zone. You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

yup , JT plays like a winger that's why he's always bleed g/a

also he doesn't typically stand in front of the net screening the goalie , he usually vulture around down low looking for a tip or rebound

 

[meefer]

yup , JT plays like a winger that's why he's always bleed g/a

also he doesn't typically stand in front of the net screening the goalie , he usually vulture around down low looking for a tip or rebound

And yet over the past two years he sits 22nd overall in scoring. I'll have another vulture please

 

[hotpaws]

And yet over the past two years he sits 22nd overall in scoring. I'll have another vulture please

and top 7 in salary , do you want another one of those as well ?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

My point is he does not keep the screen(thinks he'll get hit by the puck). Easy save each time. You will see Mitch or any other Leaf block a shot. But never the Captain.

you want to see Tavares start to block his teammates shots while acting as the net front presence?

 

[meefer]

and top 7 in salary , do you want another one of those as well ?

Friend, you introduced two aspects to which I addressed 1. I avoided the comment "that's why he's always bleed g/a" as I was unsure what 'he's (is) always bleed' means. Were you attempting to comment on his goals and assists, or goals against? So I took on 'vulture', assuming you meant 'easy pickings', which I thought an interesting way to describe a guy who is 22nd in overall scoring. I didn't realize we were shifting goal posts to salary concerns. As such a contract would be impossible to assume, why would I want it? It's rather a silly question.

 

[stickty111]

A GM(a young one at that) would run it by his vet coach to see if a big ticket signing would fit in to his plans. JT signing soured Babcock. JT is an amazing player, but did not fit in to Babcock's plans.

That is my point Marleau, Matthews, Tavares cannot kill penalties, so why am I signing another player that can't kill them either

You will never see JT stand in front a keeper either end of the ice. You will never see him rotate out to the point on a power play. So often our D men are criticized for their bad play when a forward take the wrong man. 60% of the time that forward is JT. Yup he is a Babcock type player 100%

Exactly the reason Babs didn't want him. He saw first hand what was missing in his game

These posts are so misinformed yikes.

 

[hotpaws]

Friend, you introduced two aspects to which I addressed 1. I avoided the comment "that's why he's always bleed g/a" as I was unsure what 'he's (is) always bleed' means. Were you attempting to comment on his goals and assists, or goals against? So I took on 'vulture', assuming you meant 'easy pickings', which I thought an interesting way to describe a guy who is 22nd in overall scoring. I didn't realize we were shifting goal posts to salary concerns. As such a contract would be impossible to assume, why would I want it? It's rather a silly question.

bleed goals means he's always been on for a large number of goals against

how did i shift the goal posts ? you brought up where he ranked among he's peers in terms of production so i added where he ranked among his peers in terms of salary

JT is great down low around the net , the rest of his game is barely avg to sub par , it's actually f***ing painful watching him try to bring the puck up the ice in traffic

 

[LeafsNation75]

JT is literally our front of the net man on the PP. He also is the grinder on his line and plays down low almost exclusively in the offensive zone. You literally have no idea what you are talking about.

Last season this was on the power play and here was Tavares in overtime standing in front of the net tipping in the game winning goal.