Tribute Sheldon Keefe Discussion Part 2

[Clark4Ever]

Saracasm aside

In a results business, he has yet to achieve the result of having a capable backup.

And it's not as if we don't have the assets to deal from a position of strength to resolve that issue.

For example, I find it hard to believe that a guy like Johnsson couldn't fetch a solid young backup.

 

[Gallagbi]

And it's not as if we don't have the assets to deal from a position of strength to resolve that issue.

For example, I find it hard to believe that a guy like Johnsson couldn't fetch a solid young backup.

Logical conclusion is they value a top 6 forward more than a backup.

Hutch is playing much worse than his career numbers, feels like they expect that to change.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Didn't he clear before the season started and with almost twice the cap hit? With only 50 GP at 28, he's still kind of a toss up, no?

If he was a starter sure, but as a backup? 50 games over 2 seasons? That's about what a backup should play in 2 seasons

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

If he was a starter sure, but as a backup? 50 games over 2 seasons? That's about what a backup should play in 2 seasons

But he's 28 and has only played 50 games and apparently 29 other team's pro scouts didn't jump at the opportunity either?

He's neck and neck with Kaskisuo in the AHL and behind Sparks.

 

[egd27]

He can't win in the playoffs without at least 2-3 #1D and 2-3 Selke level forwards.

Ever look at the rosters Scotty Bowman won the Cup with?

 

[jaric1862]

When Johnsson's healthy, I'd like to see Keefe try a Johnsson-Kerfoot-Kapanen third line and then Put Mikeheyev with Matthews and Nylander.

 

[Teeder Keon]

When Johnsson's healthy, I'd like to see Keefe try a Johnsson-Kerfoot-Kapanen third line and then Put Mikeheyev with Matthews and Nylander.

I would as well !

 

[Martin Skoula]

Ever look at the rosters Scotty Bowman won the Cup with?

Can you find me a roster that isn't 08 Detroit that had had 2+ #1D and 2+ Selke contenders under the cap?

 

[egd27]

Logical conclusion is they value a top 6 forward more than a backup.

Hutch is playing much worse than his career numbers, feels like they expect that to change.

Like they expected Sparks to improve last season?

They may value a top 6 forward more than a backup, but they've won games without Tavares, Marner, Hyman and Johnsson this season. They haven't won any with their backup.

My guess is there aren't enough fancy stats for goalies and the GM isn't sure what to do about that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

But he's 28 and has only played 50 games and apparently 29 other team's pro scouts didn't jump at the opportunity either?

He's neck and neck with Kaskisuo in the AHL and behind Sparks.

I think you need to factor when he got waived, a lot of teams either had backups or just signed new ones in July, Montreal for example had just signed Kinkaid they wouldn't claim him, I bet they would now.

Ottawa had Anderson and Nilsson but now Anderson is on IR I bet they'd claim him now.

Toronto believed in Hutch, they don't now they can't.

Timing is a factor if he got waived again there is no chance he clears

 

[egd27]

Can you find me a roster that isn't 08 Detroit that had had 2+ #1D and 2+ Selke contenders under the cap?

That's not an answer.

 

[Martin Skoula]

That's not an answer.

I don't see what a cap-less roster from almost 50 years ago has to do with anything.

No team can give Babcock the kind of roster he needs to win, it's not feasible with the cap unless you already had that core in place before the cap came in.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I think you need to factor when he got waived, a lot of teams either had backups or just signed new ones in July, Montreal for example had just signed Kinkaid they wouldn't claim him, I bet they would now.

Ottawa had Anderson and Nilsson but now Anderson is on IR I bet they'd claim him now.

Toronto believed in Hutch, they don't now they can't.

Timing is a factor if he got waived again there is no chance he clears

That was kind of the point presented to you a few posts ago. He was waived before the season started and at 28 and $1.2 hasn't really made the case why he's better than a bunch of other guys. At 28 his AHL numbers are neck and neck with Kaskisuo and below Sparks.

 

[Gallagbi]

Like they expected Sparks to improve last season?

Wasn't Sparks something like 6-1 with a .910+ save% to start the year? Seems like the opposite.

They may value a top 6 forward more than a backup, but they've won games without Tavares, Marner, Hyman and Johnsson this season. They haven't won any with their backup

Correct, so the logical conclusion is we should trade Tavares for Reimer.

My guess is there aren't enough fancy stats for goalies and the GM isn't sure what to do about that.

Heh, good one. Next time take a shot at his glasses too, that'll really drive home your point

Just to note/expand, I'm all for upgrading the backup and would tackle it. Hutch is a questionable NHLer at best but I'm not paying a top 6 forward to do it

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

That was kind of the point presented to you a few posts ago. He was waived before the season started and at 28 and $1.2 hasn't really made the case why he's better than a bunch of other guys. At 28 his AHL numbers are neck and neck with Kaskisuo and below Sparks.

But his NHL numbers are strong, it doesn't matter to me that his AHL numbers are below Sparks, and Sparks is the reason for that.

Sparks was AHL goalie of the year won the championship, he was gifted the backup job and then sucked so much he was kicked off the team.

All I can tell you is as far as the NHL goes Desmith has been borderline great.

The Pens got lucky in September he wouldn't sneak through again

 

[egd27]

Correct, so the logical conclusion is we should trade Tavares for Reimer.

Yea, that was what I was suggesting

 

[Pookie]

And it's not as if we don't have the assets to deal from a position of strength to resolve that issue.

For example, I find it hard to believe that a guy like Johnsson couldn't fetch a solid young backup.

I concur with your post

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

But his NHL numbers are strong, it doesn't matter to me that his AHL numbers are below Sparks, and Sparks is the reason for that.

Sparks was AHL goalie of the year won the championship, he was gifted the backup job and then sucked so much he was kicked off the team.

All I can tell you is as far as the NHL goes Desmith has been borderline great.

The Pens got lucky in September he wouldn't sneak through again

His numbers would put him in the exact middle....while playing backup role. Better than what we currently have, yes but if he is 28 and still can't stick, what significant evidence do we have to suggest he should have been claimed off waivers before the start of the season?

 

[Judas Tavares]

Keep winning Sheldon it'l just make em angrier. "I ain't supportin no product of wonderboy. #notmygm #notmycoach #notmyteam"

 

[zeke]

That was kind of the point presented to you a few posts ago. He was waived before the season started and at 28 and $1.2 hasn't really made the case why he's better than a bunch of other guys. At 28 his AHL numbers are neck and neck with Kaskisuo and below Sparks.

Desmith has off-ice domestic violence issues, for the record. Likely scared many teams away.

Also the leafs cant fit his caphit in with a healthy roster.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Always easier to put that much emphasis on coaching, rather than blaming a flawed roster. That's typical fan behavior . We will see if Keefe gets badly exposed if his meal ticket in Marner goes down later in the season. I've seen the lack of adjustments first hand in the OHL playoffs when Tony DeAngelo went down and Keefe was totally lost.

Enjoy your day. Go Leafs.

You post shows how easy it is (for some people) to ignore what's unfolding right in front of them when it doesn't fit their narrative.

 

[kb]

Would you come in to work for a boss that berates you and forces you to use equipment/strategy that's a decade outdated for your industry? Would you have any belief that your company is likely to succeed even if your personal work may suffer and you'll get yelled at daily? Or you get transferred in as a senior exec from Colorado and your new boss tells you to "reinvent yourself" as a janitor?

It's one thing if you have a Bowman figure that the team hates but gets results with. You can put aside what you want in a coach when you see that his way wins consistently. Why would you ignore all the garbage that a Bowman/Babcock figure bring if you're not even winning? Why would you think that the issue is your effort when 10 different years of different rosters have failed to get out of the 1st round under his strategy?

As long as Keefe hockey works and brings results, no one is quitting on him the way they quit on Babcock.

It's almost as if having confidence in what you are doing (and confidence in your boss) is a real thing.

 

[kb]

At some point... some players tuned him out. That was their choice in how they reacted. Others reacted differently.

For example,

"I personally, think Babs is a great coach & he helped that team over there get to the next step ..." - Nazem Kadri, Nov 23, 2019

Wow. How's this for full circle. Quoting Kadri for your only support.

 

[kb]

Babcock played our Stars more than Boston played theirs.

Anyways, which was the favoured team going into each of those Boston series?

Did the favoured team win?

When you are done... since past accolades don’t matter...

Which current accolades do you ascribe to Dubas?

The team with home ice advantage won, but at some point in a decade you would think one win wouldn't be too much to ask.

The accolades I have for Dubas is attempting to fix the incredible mess that Lou left in his midnight flight to the Islanders.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Wow. How's this for full circle. Quoting Kadri for your only support.

My ignore list prevents me from seeing who you're talking to but if it's Pookie and he's quoting Kadri for support, that's the most hilarious thing I've ever seen here. Full circle indeed!!!!