Tribute Sheldon Keefe Discussion Part 2

[DavePoulin4PM]

Get your ears/eyes checked, the chant was FIRE THE COACH.



Pretty myopic to think it has to be one or the other.

This team has a long way to go still but we seem to be on the right track. I thought we were a top contender before the season started, I didn't realize just how much of a hindrance Babcock was. Hopefully now we have a shot to realize our potential and for me, the goal isn't winning a round, it's winning 4. If there's one thing we could really use (even more than a good backup IMO) it's someone with a ton of grit/sandpaper and I be willing to pay a lot to get the right guy. I'm not sure if Dubas feels the same way though so that's still a concern. Maybe I'm wrong, would love for Dubas to surprise me.

The way this team is built they cannot afford to lose Marner or Freddy. No one in the organization can come close to replicating what they provide, and the Leafs are so top heavy with the cap it makes it that much tougher if they go down. Good players are required in order to win.. it's a talent league and talent wins. Coaching always gets overrated by fans. I think it should be pretty obvious to most that having Marner back is the main reason for the improved play. The data backs that as well. If Freddy goes down for 10 games and the Leafs go 1-9 that doesn't all of a sudden make Keefe a bad coach.

Keefe has done a nice job so far, he has held players accountable and has managed the bench/game well for the most part. It doesn't look like he is in over his head.. which was my main concern. Hopefully he can keep up the good work and doesn't get exposed once teams tighten the screws later in the season.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Coaching always gets overrated by fans. I think it should be pretty obvious to most that having Marner back is the main reason for the improved play. The data backs that as well.

Nah, I think it's mostly the coach. I'm pretty sure the data backs that as well.

 

[DavePoulin4PM]

Nah, I think it's mostly the coach. I'm pretty sure the data backs that as well.

Always easier to put that much emphasis on coaching, rather than blaming a flawed roster. That's typical fan behavior . We will see if Keefe gets badly exposed if his meal ticket in Marner goes down later in the season. I've seen the lack of adjustments first hand in the OHL playoffs when Tony DeAngelo went down and Keefe was totally lost.

Enjoy your day. Go Leafs.

 

[horner]

The way this team is built they cannot afford to lose Marner or Freddy. No one in the organization can come close to replicating what they provide, and the Leafs are so top heavy with the cap it makes it that much tougher if they go down. Good players are required in order to win.. it's a talent league and talent wins. Coaching always gets overrated by fans. I think it should be pretty obvious to most that having Marner back is the main reason for the improved play. The data backs that as well. If Freddy goes down for 10 games and the Leafs go 1-9 that doesn't all of a sudden make Keefe a bad coach.

Keefe has done a nice job so far, he has held players accountable and has managed the bench/game well for the most part. It doesn't look like he is in over his head.. which was my main concern. Hopefully he can keep up the good work and doesn't get exposed once teams tighten the screws later in the season.

I would say having the first line together has really helped .
They take on the top line of the other team.
It allows the second line to do there thing.
Marner and Hyman killing penalties as well

The only thing the have to do to be a solid team is pick the intensity in the 3rd period.
That is the time you wished we had a couple of defensive dman and a couple of forwards.

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

I like how they played against buffalo and Edmonton. But I hated how they played against Vancouver and Calgary.

Overall, I think consistency is something that's still lacking. They play well 1 or 2 periods then slack off.

I am hopeful that they play with intensity like they did with buffalo but it's too early to jump on the Keefe bandwagon yet.

 

[Clark4Ever]

It think the main issue right now is that the players need to simplify their game in their own zone when defending a lead. Too often, they are trying to force passes in the defensive and neutral zones leading to unforced turnovers.

Possession is important, but with the lead, the players have to focus on making the safe play to get the puck out if there are no outlets.

 

[mrbagina]

Always easier to put that much emphasis on coaching, rather than blaming a flawed roster. That's typical fan behavior . We will see if Keefe gets badly exposed if his meal ticket in Marner goes down later in the season. I've seen the lack of adjustments first hand in the OHL playoffs when Tony DeAngelo went down and Keefe was totally lost.

Enjoy your day. Go Leafs.

Holy Debbie downer batman. Pretty much every post has a negative spin on it. I like a good discussion and dissecting the leafs but yikes, you are one negative Nancy. I always know when its you even before looking at who posted. No need for a reply as I have recently learned of the ignore button.
Good day sir!

 

[Walshy7]

Holy Debbie downer batman. Pretty much every post has a negative spin on it. I like a good discussion and dissecting the leafs but yikes, you are one negative Nancy. I always know when its you even before looking at who posted. No need for a reply as I have recently learned of the ignore button.
Good day sir!

I must have already used the great ignore button. Who was this you were talking to?

 

[tom leafers]

All Situations

Babs: .478pts% (#25), 47.7gf% (#23), 9.4sh% (#16), 89.7sv% (#23)
Keefe: .667pts% (#6), 57.5gf% (#3), 10.3sh% (#8), 91.8sv% (#8)


5v5 adjusted

Babs: 46.7gf% (#23), 47.9xgf% (#23), 52.3cf% (#7), .988pdo (#23)
Keefe: 57.7gf% (#6), 56.0xgf% (#3), 54.5cf% (#4), 1.009pdo (#12)

Power Play

Babs: 6.24gf/60 (#19), 6.86xgf/60 (#7), 12.3sh% (#19)
Keefe: 10.02gf/60 (#5), 8.90xgf/60 (#1), 17.1sh% (#5)

Penalty Kill

Babs: 9.23ga/60 (#26), 6.99xga/60 (#25), 85.0sv% (#22)
Keefe: 4.73ga/60 (#6), 3.69xga/60 (#1), 85.7sv% (#18)

My god, the change is wild.

how much of this do you think can be attributed to the players just giving up on Babs?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Since he took over Leafs a good team in PP, PK, GF, GA, SF, SA.

What more do you need?

All we need is a back up and 2nd in the division is ours to lose.

The problem is Dubas REFUSES to do that

 

[zeke]

My god, the change is wild.

how much of this do you think can be attributed to the players just giving up on Babs?

I would say they definitely lost belief and hope under babs, at least.

 

[IPS]

I must have already used the great ignore button. Who was this you were talking to?

DavePoulin4PM. He posts the same shit over and over again but just words it differently.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The problem is Dubas REFUSES to do that

Yeah he just flat out refuses to get a back-up

 

[Teeder Keon]

Yeah he just flat out refuses to get a back-up

Ha ha
Yep
He actually declines every offer to get a back up , in fact he’s turned his mute button on and asked his assistants to screen his calls pertaining to possible backup conversations ...

 

[Teeder Keon]

DavePoulin4PM. He posts the same **** over and over again but just words it differently.

 

[Teeder Keon]

I would say they definitely lost belief and hope under babs, at least.

I don’t like agreeing with you this much brotha

 

[Teeder Keon]

Holy Debbie downer batman. Pretty much every post has a negative spin on it. I like a good discussion and dissecting the leafs but yikes, you are one negative Nancy. I always know when its you even before looking at who posted. No need for a reply as I have recently learned of the ignore button.
Good day sir!

It think the main issue right now is that the players need to simplify their game in their own zone when defending a lead. Too often, they are trying to force passes in the defensive and neutral zones leading to unforced turnovers.

Possession is important, but with the lead, the players have to focus on making the safe play to get the puck out if there are no outlets.

Agreed
That little pass from the corner to in front of the net area by the inside circles is killing us as well as the extra pass at our blue line

 

[Pookie]

Ha ha
Yep
He actually declines every offer to get a back up , in fact he’s turned his mute button on and asked his assistants to scream his calls pertaining to possible backup conversations ...

Saracasm aside

In a results business, he has yet to achieve the result of having a capable backup.

 

[67Leafs67]

Keefe with 8 wins in 12 games. Babcock had 9 in 23. One more win, and Keefe matches Babcock's record in ten less games.

Since Keefe took over, Toronto has spent more time with the lead than any other team in the NHL (401 minutes), and the most per game (33:25), ahead of Colorado (32:24), and a distant third, Nashville (26:29). That means Toronto is spending about 56% of the game with a lead, which is pretty impressive. Shows that we are playing to win, not playing not to lose.

 

[stickty111]

DavePoulin4PM. He posts the same **** over and over again but just words it differently.

He could be preparing for McDavid asking for a trade soon, so he is just mad the Oilers are a disaster?
The guy is not negative. He is a Oilers troll who the mods for whatever allow to post garbage stuff in this thread.

 

[67Leafs67]

My god, the change is wild.

how much of this do you think can be attributed to the players just giving up on Babs?

I wouldn't be surprised if it is quite a bit. I know that Babcock had changes his system compared to previous years, which was probably a part of it as well, but it isn't like Babcock hadn't been able to get good numbers out of these guys from 2016-2019. The fact that the change was so sudden and dramatic as well, seems to suggest to me that a lot of it had to do with morale, and a lack of buying into the system.

 

[Pookie]

My god, the change is wild.

how much of this do you think can be attributed to the players just giving up on Babs?

Hopefully, not a lot.

If the logic is that they gave up on a coach and quit then our season and future hinges on them liking Keefe.

If Keefe ever fails to buy them ice cream or upsets them in any way, they will quit again we’ll be hooped.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Saracasm aside

In a results business, he has yet to achieve the result of having a capable backup.

I agree with that
That’s his job , I’m sure it’s a priority ..
But it is his job ...
It’s on him

 

[Martin Skoula]

Hopefully, not a lot.

If the logic is that they gave up on a coach and quit then our season and future hinges on them liking Keefe.

If Keefe ever fails to buy them ice cream or upsets them in any way, they will quit again we’ll be hooped.

Would you come in to work for a boss that berates you and forces you to use equipment/strategy that's a decade outdated for your industry? Would you have any belief that your company is likely to succeed even if your personal work may suffer and you'll get yelled at daily? Or you get transferred in as a senior exec from Colorado and your new boss tells you to "reinvent yourself" as a janitor?

It's one thing if you have a Bowman figure that the team hates but gets results with. You can put aside what you want in a coach when you see that his way wins consistently. Why would you ignore all the garbage that a Bowman/Babcock figure bring if you're not even winning? Why would you think that the issue is your effort when 10 different years of different rosters have failed to get out of the 1st round under his strategy?

As long as Keefe hockey works and brings results, no one is quitting on him the way they quit on Babcock.

 

[Pookie]

Would you come in to work for a boss that berates you and forces you to use equipment/strategy that's a decade outdated for your industry? Would you have any belief that your company is likely to succeed even if your personal work may suffer and you'll get yelled at daily? Or you get transferred in as a senior exec from Colorado and your new boss tells you to "reinvent yourself" as a janitor?

It's one thing if you have a Bowman figure that the team hates but gets results with. You can put aside what you want in a coach when you see that his way wins consistently. Why would you ignore all the garbage that a Bowman/Babcock figure bring if you're not even winning? Why would you think that the issue is your effort when 10 different years of different rosters have failed to get out of the 1st round under his strategy?

As long as Keefe hockey works and brings results, no one is quitting on him the way they quit on Babcock.

They believed in him enough to go from worst to a playoff spot.

They believed him enough for a 100 point season and record number of road wins.

They believed in him enough to set a single season points record.

Kadri believed in him enough to nix a trade and credit him with helping turn his life around.

He was most likely a miserable jerk at times through all of that.

At some point they decided to play. And some point they decided to quit.

Our choices are all ours.