Player Discussion Shea Weber

[Le Tricolore]

Cap recapture's a red herring, nobody's going to get hit by it for any contract.

Players are better off going onto LTIR after they're done playing like Hossa and Zetterberg have rather than retire and forgo the few million they're still owed on their contract.

And even if a team was hit with the penalty, they'd contest it and the decision would get reversed.

Hi Kovalchuk!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Yup. And the team who tried To screw the system was PHI, not NSH. Nashville werent even spending To the cap anyways. Add To that the fact they paid more than 60% of Weber salary for only 30% of the lenght .. they also paid the majority of the bonuses...

If a team got screwed in the Weber contract its the Preds..

Flyers were clearly not afraid of those contracts.. Richards, Carter, and then Weber

 

[yianik]

I could see Weber not being interested in playing when he is 37 and due to make a million a year for 3 more seasons. I could also see him being fine with going on LTIR and pocketing those few millions instead of retiring.

So the questio I have is how easy is it to put a player on LTIR ? I mean doesnt the guy actually have to have a health problem keeping him from playing ?

In terms of contesting the cap recapture penalty isnt that a done deal ? I mean if the Preds didnt like it should they not have contested it before now?

I ask because the Habs could say that part of the reason they traded for Weber is the possible recapture to the Preds. That it has value to Montreal. And in fact, if it is easy to put him on LTIR then I am sure the Preds would be willing to pay up to avoid losing $24M of cap space over 3 or 4 years.

 

[Pickles]

Ray Bourque never won anything until his last year. Was he also overrated?

No because Bourque won multiple Norris trophies Weber hasn't even done that.

What would you do if you get offered $110M?

Not it it meant screwing my team no I wouldn't. It shows how little integrity he has that he couldn't wait till he was a UFA to get paid. He screwed Nashville plain and simple.

 

[BLONG7]

No because Bourque won multiple Norris trophies Weber hasn't even done that.


Not it it meant screwing my team no I wouldn't. It shows how little integrity he has that he couldn't wait till he was a UFA to get paid. He screwed Nashville plain and simple.

You would have turned down 110 M dollars when offered? Sorry, no way I or anyone else would believe that...your agent and your family would also disagree...lol

 

[Pickles]

You would have turned down 110 M dollars when offered? Sorry, no way I or anyone else would believe that...your agent and your family would also disagree...lol

Me personally? I have no hockey talent and wouldn't ever be offered that kind of money. I think it was a selfish thing for him to do when he was a couple of years from free agency anyway. There's a hell of alot of talented players that don't get paid alot during their RFA years. I probably would take the money but I'd feel guilty about it.

 

[Peanut]

And even if a team was hit with the penalty, they'd contest it and the decision would get reversed.

Hi Kovalchuk!

LIES the NHL will punish Nashville for signing Weber to that deal! Oh wait it was Webersheet/Philly and it was allowed in a previous CBA..... Well look how NJ was punished for there 1st round pick they lost it, oh wait they didn't lose it.

Well Nashville is still screwed despite they probably aren't it makes me feel better about the Weber trade

 

[Habs Icing]

No because Bourque won multiple Norris trophies Weber hasn't even done that.


Not it it meant screwing my team no I wouldn't. It shows how little integrity he has that he couldn't wait till he was a UFA to get paid. He screwed Nashville plain and simple.

C'mon that's BS. What's the dif between a RFA and UFA. He's allowed to sign as a RFA. Nashville didn't have to sign him and could have accepted the truck load of draft picks. I don't begrudge a lucrative contract for anyone who puts their body on the line. And you would do the same thing. You're just looking for a reason to dump on him.

 

[Pickles]

C'mon that's BS. What's the dif between a RFA and UFA. He's allowed to sign as a RFA. Nashville didn't have to sign him and could have accepted the truck load of draft picks. I don't begrudge a lucrative contract for anyone who puts their body on the line. And you would do the same thing. You're just looking for a reason to dump on him.

The difference is that RFA period is the short amount of time where a team has control over player salaries. It's kind of important and crucial in the cap era.

So let me get this straight you wanted Nashville to give up their franchise defenseman the same year they lost Ryan Suter to free agency for draft picks? Totally unrealistic to think Nashville would do that. Weber forced their hand and they had little choice.

I have no issue with players getting what they deserve but to force a teams hand by signing an offer sheet just rubs me the wrong way.

 

[ottawa]

The difference is that RFA period is the short amount of time where a team has control over player salaries. It's kind of important and crucial in the cap era.

So let me get this straight you wanted Nashville to give up their franchise defenseman the same year they lost Ryan Suter to free agency for draft picks? Totally unrealistic to think Nashville would do that. Weber forced their hand and they had little choice.

I have no issue with players getting what they deserve but to force a teams hand by signing an offer sheet just rubs me the wrong way.

He didn't force them though, IIRC he didn't have a fun to Poile's head. Let me explain to you how an offer sheet works:

Team A offered him what they believe he was worth, team B offered him what they believe he was worth. He signed with team A, team B matched it.

And before you say the Flyers mortgaged their future in picks on purpose to f*** over Nashville (who they have no rivalry with btw), here is their defense from 2012: Timmonen (37 year old), Carle, Meszaros, Coburn, Pronger (38 year old), Bourdon, Lilja, Grossman, Gustaffson

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

I really don't care about the retirement-time cap hit.

The question is if he's gonna be bad (ie not worth it OR not an NHLer like J Bouw) at ~35 or not. He's already slow and coming off injuries and it seems no one wants to face the possibility of him slowing down past the point of no return this year, or next year, or the one after that.

I guess there isn't much to discuss, no one has the answers or knows how it's gonna go down.

 

[26Mats]

I really don't care about the retirement-time cap hit.

The question is if he's gonna be bad (ie not worth it OR not an NHLer like J Bouw) at ~35 or not. He's already slow and coming off injuries and it seems no one wants to face the possibility of him slowing down past the point of no return this year, or next year, or the one after that.

I guess there isn't much to discuss, no one has the answers or knows how it's gonna go down.

This is a huge concern and the reason I would trade him as soon as his trade value is high. The perfect scenario is he's actually able to come back in November, is back to his old self, no ill effects of his injury, no big decline due to age, and a contending team really wants to add him at the deadline. We've gotta to trade him in that scenario. It's only a matter of time before he starts to decline rapidly.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is a huge concern and the reason I would trade him as soon as his trade value is high. The perfect scenario is he's actually able to come back in November, is back to his old self, no ill effects of his injury, no big decline due to age, and a contending team really wants to add him at the deadline. We've gotta to trade him in that scenario. It's only a matter of time before he starts to decline rapidly.

Weber is not going to decline rapidly. How many players do you know that decline rapidly from age 30-35? Gomez? Those who decline rapidly are the types with elite level skating and they lose some of this. That's what happened to Gomez. Once he lost his ability to create separation with his skating and speed, he became what we saw. This has never been Weber's game and if a guy like Hainsey can do what he is doing at age 36/37, I'm pretty sure Weber can maintain his level of play.

I get the surgery concerns but I think the opposite. If he has no setbacks in his recovery and the surgery's were successful, I think he comes back stronger than ever cause the rest would do him good. He has played a lot of hockey over the years.

I agree about trading him for a solid return but only if we are getting serious assets back. I do not support liquidating him. However, he was just named captain and he's sticking around for a while IMO. More likely another 4 or 5 years. Age 33-36/37.

There has been zero evidence of decline in his age 30+ years too! It's reasonable to expect modest decline and up and down years but rapid decline? I don't think so

 

[26Mats]

Weber is not going to decline rapidly. How many players do you know that decline rapidly from age 30-35? Gomez? Those who decline rapidly are the types with elite level skating and they lose some of this. That's what happened to Gomez. Once he lost his ability to create separation with his skating and speed, he became what we saw. This has never been Weber's game and if a guy like Hainsey can do what he is doing at age 36/37, I'm pretty sure Weber can maintain his level of play.

I get the surgery concerns but I think the opposite. If he has no setbacks in his recovery and the surgery's were successful, I think he comes back stronger than ever cause the rest would do him good. He has played a lot of hockey over the years.

I agree about trading him for a solid return but only if we are getting serious assets back. I do not support liquidating him. However, he was just named captain and he's sticking around for a while IMO. More likely another 4 or 5 years. Age 33-36/37.

There has been zero evidence of decline in his age 30+ years too! It's reasonable to expect modest decline and up and down years but rapid decline? I don't think so

Look at the defencemen in order of points by defencemen. There were no dmen in the top 40 in points who were over 35. Only Kronwall and Duncan Keith were in the top 80, and they were somewhere in the mid 60s. The game is changing rapidly. Using the Gomez example is using an example from another era and making sweeping conclusions based on one example. Bobby Ryan was never a fast skater, and his skating limitations are an issue in the new NHL, even in his prime. And all reports out of Toronto are that Hainsey is not cutting it.

As I said, you trade Weber if/when/as soon as he gets back to his high value, that's not liquidating. There is a very high probability he may not be able to play at a high level for very long. I don't see any reason to take that chance.

That being said, MB will most probably keep him, as you said. But it's because he's an idiot when it comes to building a winning team in this new NHL. And when I say winning I mean cup contending, not the team that made the playoffs and got bounced in the 1st round by the Rangers 2 years ago after averaging scoring 1 goal per game - and that MB glowingly talked about as being a successful season that brought the fans a lot of excitement.

 

[Censored Toad]

Shea Webber...... wait who is that??? Does he play for mtl?

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Shea Webber...... wait who is that??? Does he play for mtl?

You're thinking of the small swiss guy, he played here a while back. Good times.

 

[Perrah]

I'm not concerned about Weber's contract at all. There's been plenty of loopholes exploited in getting out of other crazy contracts (Hossa's comes to mind) and even guys like David Clarkson, who many thought to be insane and immovable, have been traded. Plus we have another lockout incoming in the year 20-21 which typically includes a buyout window.

And all of this is dependent on if he really regresses as much as people want to think he will, which hasn't officially started happening yet.

Clarkson was only traded because of Horton signing in Columbus. Columbus traded Horton to get an insurable LTIR contract in return, as Hortons contract wasnt insurable. Columbus saved about 20 million in real cash by making that deal.

 

[Saundies]

Clarkson was only traded because of Horton signing in Columbus. Columbus traded Horton to get an insurable LTIR contract in return, as Hortons contract wasnt insurable. Columbus saved about 20 million in real cash by making that deal.

He was still traded. It doesn't really matter WHY he was traded, my point is that many thought the Leafs were going to be saddled with that albatross contract for its entire duration and they were able to get out of it due to another teams misfortune. Just because you have a bad contract on your team doesn't mean you're 100% stuck with it until it expires. There are always ways to get out of it somehow.

 

[Mrb1p]

I really don't care about the retirement-time cap hit.

The question is if he's gonna be bad (ie not worth it OR not an NHLer like J Bouw) at ~35 or not. He's already slow and coming off injuries and it seems no one wants to face the possibility of him slowing down past the point of no return this year, or next year, or the one after that.

I guess there isn't much to discuss, no one has the answers or knows how it's gonna go down.

He was never fast.

 

[waffledave]

Nashville won't pay a penny of that recapture penalty no matter what happens.

 

[Deebs]

Can't wait for Shea to come back and help solidify our defense. What a huge add for our team.

 

[Kriss E]

He didn't force them though, IIRC he didn't have a fun to Poile's head. Let me explain to you how an offer sheet works:

Team A offered him what they believe he was worth, team B offered him what they believe he was worth. He signed with team A, team B matched it.

And before you say the Flyers mortgaged their future in picks on purpose to **** over Nashville (who they have no rivalry with btw), here is their defense from 2012: Timmonen (37 year old), Carle, Meszaros, Coburn, Pronger (38 year old), Bourdon, Lilja, Grossman, Gustaffson

I don't care about offer sheet, but come on, let's not be naive and hide behind semantics.

Weber signed a huge offer from Philly because he wanted out and never thought NSH would match. He really forced them into a corner. If you want me, pay me this insane cash. If not, I'm going to Philly.
There is no way a team would sign a player to a deal they think their team would match, it's completely pointless for them to do that.

 

[MC94]

No because Bourque won multiple Norris trophies Weber hasn't even done that.


Not it it meant screwing my team no I wouldn't. It shows how little integrity he has that he couldn't wait till he was a UFA to get paid. He screwed Nashville plain and simple.

Money talks lol you can pretend you would say no to millions of dollars all you want, just means your full of it

 

[Pickles]

He didn't force them though, IIRC he didn't have a fun to Poile's head. Let me explain to you how an offer sheet works:

Team A offered him what they believe he was worth, team B offered him what they believe he was worth. He signed with team A, team B matched it.

And before you say the Flyers mortgaged their future in picks on purpose to **** over Nashville (who they have no rivalry with btw), here is their defense from 2012: Timmonen (37 year old), Carle, Meszaros, Coburn, Pronger (38 year old), Bourdon, Lilja, Grossman, Gustaffson

I think I know how an offer sheet works thanks anyway. By signing the offer sheet he kind of did hold a gun to Poille's head. It was either pay him or he'd go to Philly. I understand why Philly made the offer sheet what I don't understand is why would the captain of an NHL team would sign said offer sheet. It was a completely selfish move on his part.

Money talks lol you can pretend you would say no to millions of dollars all you want, just means your full of it

Let's not pretend that he wasn't getting paid well. He was getting paid 7.5 mil before he signed the offer sheet.

 

[ottawa]

I don't care about offer sheet, but come on, let's not be naive and hide behind semantics.

Weber signed a huge offer from Philly because he wanted out and never thought NSH would match. He really forced them into a corner. If you want me, pay me this insane cash. If not, I'm going to Philly.
There is no way a team would sign a player to a deal they think their team would match, it's completely pointless for them to do that.

You should really look into the history of offer sheets and see how many get matched. I can't link it but it's on wiki

Here's a hint: almost all of them

I think I know how an offer sheet works thanks anyway. By signing the offer sheet he kind of did hold a gun to Poille's head. It was either pay him or he'd go to Philly. I understand why Philly made the offer sheet what I don't understand is why would the captain of an NHL team would sign said offer sheet. It was a completely selfish move on his part.


Let's not pretend that he wasn't getting paid well. He was getting paid 7.5 mil before he signed the offer sheet.

Why do you think it's selfish for a player to see his worth? Especially when his worth was immediately validated by another team.