Player Discussion Shea Weber

[26Mats]

Can't wait for Shea to come back and help solidify our defense. What a huge add for our team.

Unfortunately, there's no guarantee he makes it back from this injury, or that he's still an elite dman. Furthermore, there's no guarantee he'll be an elite dman in 2 seasons at 35.

I pray he comes back in top form. Sure it would be great to have the dcore solidified in this year when we probably have no chance to win the cup. But it would be even better if, being in top form, we can trade him for a high return of futures, as we did with the Pacioretty trade.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

And even if a team was hit with the penalty, they'd contest it and the decision would get reversed.

Hi Kovalchuk!

Kovalchuk is a special case. He retired before any dramatic penalty would occur. The cap recapture hit was minimal and NJD still paid a penalty on their 1st round pick.

 

[Miller Time]

Me personally? I have no hockey talent and wouldn't ever be offered that kind of money. I think it was a selfish thing for him to do when he was a couple of years from free agency anyway. There's a hell of alot of talented players that don't get paid alot during their RFA years. I probably would take the money but I'd feel guilty about it.

Selfish.... Right.
Wait for free agency... Right.

You clearly don't understand what kind of risk is involved for these athletes, nor how much profit the owners & league make.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I think I know how an offer sheet works thanks anyway. By signing the offer sheet he kind of did hold a gun to Poille's head. It was either pay him or he'd go to Philly. I understand why Philly made the offer sheet what I don't understand is why would the captain of an NHL team would sign said offer sheet. It was a completely selfish move on his part.


Let's not pretend that he wasn't getting paid well. He was getting paid 7.5 mil before he signed the offer sheet.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Sakic signed an offer sheet didn't he? Guess he's selfish.

Let me guess though, if habs didn't give Subban a last minute 9 million dollar offer and dragged it on for another year before Subban accepted his worth it would be habs fault right?

Nashville and Weber were trying to get a long term extension for 2 years man. They went through arbitration, they saw Suter leave and still took their time or lowballed Weber. By the time Weber signed that offer sheet Nashville had shown they'd rather bring him to arbitration, rather let their stars go for free and rather continue to lowball him.

Be honest with yourself. Nashville either by financial restrictions or otherwise continued to lowball Weber.

In 2011 they struggled to give their franchise D, captain, etc... 7.5 million dollars over a single year. In 2017 they gave Johansen 8X8. Ryan Johansen...

Like...c'mon. I get cap went up and all that but Nashville was really playing hardball back then.

 

[Pickles]

Why do you think it's selfish for a player to see his worth? Especially when his worth was immediately validated by another team.

The year before he signed the offer sheet he was getting what he was worth. When he signed the offer sheet he was basically saying screw you to his teammates and the team that drafted him. In another year he would have been a free agent the following year anyway.

Let me present an hypothetical. Lets say a player on the Canadiens signed an offer sheet. Fans would be livid, myself included. Why is it ok that Weber did it?

 

[groovejuice]

He didn't force them though, IIRC he didn't have a fun to Poile's head. Let me explain to you how an offer sheet works:

Team A offered him what they believe he was worth, team B offered him what they believe he was worth. He signed with team A, team B matched it.

And before you say the Flyers mortgaged their future in picks on purpose to **** over Nashville (who they have no rivalry with btw), here is their defense from 2012: Timmonen (37 year old), Carle, Meszaros, Coburn, Pronger (38 year old), Bourdon, Lilja, Grossman, Gustaffson

In retrospect, do you think Weber was worthy of that contract? Personally, I'm not sure it's cut and dried.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Kovalchuk is a special case. He retired before any dramatic penalty would occur. The cap recapture hit was minimal and NJD still paid a penalty on their 1st round pick.

They never lost their pick. They were supposed to but the NHL reversed that.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

The year before he signed the offer sheet he was getting what he was worth. When he signed the offer sheet he was basically saying screw you to his teammates and the team that drafted him. In another year he would have been a free agent the following year anyway.

Let me present an hypothetical. Lets say a player on the Canadiens signed an offer sheet. Fans would be livid, myself included. Why is it ok that Weber did it?

If our best player signed an offer sheet, I'd be more livid at our GM for letting it get to that point.

 

[Pickles]

You don't know what you're talking about.

Sakic signed an offer sheet didn't he? Guess he's selfish.

Let me guess though, if habs didn't give Subban a last minute 9 million dollar offer and dragged it on for another year before Subban accepted his worth it would be habs fault right?

Nashville and Weber were trying to get a long term extension for 2 years man. They went through arbitration, they saw Suter leave and still took their time or lowballed Weber. By the time Weber signed that offer sheet Nashville had shown they'd rather bring him to arbitration, rather let their stars go for free and rather continue to lowball him.

Be honest with yourself. Nashville either by financial restrictions or otherwise continued to lowball Weber.

In 2011 they struggled to give their franchise D, captain, etc... 7.5 million dollars over a single year. In 2017 they gave Johansen 8X8. Ryan Johansen...

Like...c'mon. I get cap went up and all that but Nashville was really playing hardball back then.

Don't you understand that the salary cap is there to protect small market teams like Nashville? Same as restricted free agency. Maybe Nashville couldn't afford to pay him those years that they were struggling. Sure he was underpaid those first few years but then his salary rose from 4.5 mil to 7.5 mil. Maybe they thought he was worth that much.

 

[groovejuice]

They never lost their pick. They were supposed to but the NHL reversed that.

I believe it was revised to Jersey getting the final 1st round pick. Huge capitulation from Bettman.

 

[Sorinth]

Me personally? I have no hockey talent and wouldn't ever be offered that kind of money. I think it was a selfish thing for him to do when he was a couple of years from free agency anyway. There's a hell of alot of talented players that don't get paid alot during their RFA years. I probably would take the money but I'd feel guilty about it.

Have you ever changed jobs? Because by your arguments that would be selfish of you even if it was for a better fit, better career opportunities, better location, more money, etc...

 

[Pickles]

Have you ever changed jobs? Because by your arguments that would be selfish of you even if it was for a better fit, better career opportunities, better location, more money, etc...

Is it really the same though? I don't think it is. Sounds like an excuse for a selfish act to me.

 

[Sorinth]

Is it really the same though? I don't think it is. Sounds like an excuse for a selfish act to me.

How is it different? Why do you think Shea Weber owed something to Nashville but you didn't owe anything to your first employer?

 

[Pickles]

How is it different? Why do you think Shea Weber owed something to Nashville but you didn't owe anything to your first employer?

Some players are more loyal to their team than others. For such a character guy and a leader you'd think he would. If he wasn't happy in Nashville he could have went UFA the following year. Shea Weber is all about the money that much is a proven fact.

 

[Le Tricolore]

I believe it was revised to Jersey getting the final 1st round pick. Huge capitulation from Bettman.

Yep! From Wiki:

Consequently, the NHL penalized the Devils for trying to circumvent the NHL salary cap with Kovalchuk's original contract. As a result, the Devils surrendered $3 million, a third-round draft choice in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft and one future first round draft choice within the next four seasons. The Devils decided to use their first-round draft pick in the 2011 and 2012 NHL Entry Drafts, and were to surrender their first-round pick in 2014. On March 6, 2014, however, the NHL announced they would forgive part of the $3 million fine and grant the Devils the 30th pick in the first round of the 2014 NHL Entry Draft.[22]