Player Discussion Shea Weber - Dear Dad Edition

[WeThreeKings]

How is it overrated?....describe to me where he lacked leadership skills and how it affected his teammates negatively.

Leadership is overrated because you can be the greatest leader in the world but if you walk into a battle with a bunch of guys carrying a boomerang and the other side has a bunch of guys carrying machine guns, you aren't gonna win.

 

[jaffy27]

Leadership is overrated because you can be the greatest leader in the world but if you walk into a battle with a bunch of guys carrying a boomerang and the other side has a bunch of guys carrying machine guns, you aren't gonna win.

So it’s not a question of Weber’s leadership is overrated, it’s a question of lack of skill and experience on the team.......

 

[WeThreeKings]

So it’s not a question of Weber’s leadership is overrated, it’s a question of lack of skill and experience on the team.......

I think his leadership is overrated as somehow without him and a cancer in PK Subban, his team went to the cup finals immediately.

And it's certainly overrated in the sense the media has people believing that his mere presence makes other people do things that is out of character for them but there's no evidence to ever support that.

Leadership itself is an overrated concept. Weber has an overrated sense of leadership. And yes, there's an issue with the talent level on the team.

 

[Kriss E]

How is it overrated?....describe to me where he lacked leadership skills and how it affected his teammates negatively.

I didn't say he lacked leadership. I said it's overrated.
So many strong ''leaders'' end up not winning a thing..some never even go to the finals. And the opposite is also so true.
So just how important is this strong leadership? You can argue that so many talented players also don't make it to the cup, true, but talent is measurable at least. We know the impact of talent. Leadership?...well, no idea..It's something people throw out there. For years the Caps were laughed at and criticized for not having good or enough leadership...but now the same group with the Ovi, Kuz, Backstrom, Karlsson, won the cup...so...hm...ya, I guess they ''developped''?..
Alfie was always blasted for not being a good enough captain and incapable of leading his team to the cup....until he did. Oh..snap.

I think it's overrated. Talent trumps all, by a far margin. Once you have enough of that, then you can use a bit of that leadership. Until then, meh. Pointless.

What has Weber's leadership brought us since he's joined the team? Well nothing. Womp womp...
Again, not a knock on him, leadership in general is just overrated.

 

[Archijerej]

Any idea what's wrong with him? When he came back he had more jump in his legs than I've ever seen since he's a Hab. Hard to imagine someone going from there to being Hal Gill in half a season due to age. He's so bad the last 10 games that I actually feel sorry for him. #1 reason why we stopped being competitive IMO.

 

[Tighthead]

So it’s not a question of Weber’s leadership is overrated, it’s a question of lack of skill and experience on the team.......

Leadership as a whole is overrated regardless of the player, and it is completely intangible and immeasurable.

I’m a believer that what the media points to as evidence of leadership is often misguided. That is by no means Weber or Habs specific.

Shane Doan was by all accounts a great leader, it didn’t mean a thing. I’m sure there are several other examples on bad teams.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Any idea what's wrong with him? When he came back he had more jump in his legs than I've ever seen since he's a Hab. Hard to imagine someone going from there to being Hal Gill in half a season due to age. He's so bad the last 10 games that I actually feel sorry for him. #1 reason why we stopped being competitive IMO.

He missed a lot of time. He was never a fast skater. He had surgeries etc. Then as soon as he was back then just dumped all those minutes on him.

Age and conditioning.

 

[Tighthead]

Any idea what's wrong with him? When he came back he had more jump in his legs than I've ever seen since he's a Hab. Hard to imagine someone going from there to being Hal Gill in half a season due to age. He's so bad the last 10 games that I actually feel sorry for him. #1 reason why we stopped being competitive IMO.

I would guess groin or low back.

If he needs surgery I would prefer they shut him down now.

 

[LaP]

BTW anybody expecting the NHL to penalize the Preds for a contract given by the Flyers is living in la la land. Absolutely no way it will happen.

Either the NHL will change the rule in the next CBA to exclude contracts signed after matching an offer sheet or there will be some shenanigans and Weber will not retire but finish his career on the LTIR while his injury will be being an old guy.

 

[Wats]

Glad Hawks didn't score on the 2 on 0. That fall/giveway at blueline would have been on a lot of misplays highlights.

 

[LaTenderness]

Glad Hawks didn't score on the 2 on 0. That fall/giveway at blueline would have been on a lot of misplays highlights.

Oh ya the boo birds were rumbling, he looks absolutely awful most of the time

 

[CauZuki]

BTW anybody expecting the NHL to penalize the Preds for a contract given by the Flyers is living in la la land. Absolutely no way it will happen.

Either the NHL will change the rule in the next CBA to exclude contracts signed after matching an offer sheet or there will be some shenanigans and Weber will not retire but finish his career on the LTIR while his injury will be being an old guy.

The worst part is that this is one of the only positives some chose to bring up when discussing how Weber will be 34 to start next season...

This story isn't going to end well for the Habs...

 

[Andy]

I don't blame Weber, I blame all the people that put these unreasonable expectations on him.

"He can stare you into player better". I've never heard more BS in my life.

Weber is a great defenseman in the traditional sense of the word. He isn't the type of d-man that tilts the ice in all three zones.

He's fantastic (used to be elite) without the puck and is probably the best trigger d-man in the nhl - if properly set up.

He won't take control of the game by leading the offense or by possessing the puck like a mad man. That's not where his skill set lies.

The problem is everyone wants Weber to be that three zone d-man who can carry, possess, set up and shoot. He's not that.

He's still great in his own way, but not great enough to be a one-man show.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I don't blame Weber, I blame all the people that put these unreasonable expectations on him.

"He can stare you into player better". I've never heard more BS in my life.

Weber is a great defenseman in the traditional sense of the word. He isn't the type of d-man that tilts the ice in all three zones.

Every save Carey Price has made since Weber has returned is directly related to Weber's stare. Every goal against is Subbans fault.

 

[jaffy27]

I didn't say he lacked leadership. I said it's overrated.
So many strong ''leaders'' end up not winning a thing..some never even go to the finals. And the opposite is also so true.
So just how important is this strong leadership? You can argue that so many talented players also don't make it to the cup, true, but talent is measurable at least. We know the impact of talent. Leadership?...well, no idea..It's something people throw out there. For years the Caps were laughed at and criticized for not having good or enough leadership...but now the same group with the Ovi, Kuz, Backstrom, Karlsson, won the cup...so...hm...ya, I guess they ''developped''?..
Alfie was always blasted for not being a good enough captain and incapable of leading his team to the cup....until he did. Oh..snap.

I think it's overrated. Talent trumps all, by a far margin. Once you have enough of that, then you can use a bit of that leadership. Until then, meh. Pointless.

What has Weber's leadership brought us since he's joined the team? Well nothing. Womp womp...
Again, not a knock on him, leadership in general is just overrated.

My view is you need a balance of both, you can’t just win with one alor win with the other.

Soft Kovalev was just a talented player.....a pissed off Kovalev that was determined was a beast......it’s all good man, we just differ in philosophy

 

[Andy]

Every save Carey Price has made since Weber has returned is directly related to Weber's stare. Every goal against is Subbans fault.

Who even said the "stare" thing? How dumb was that.

 

[LaP]

I don't blame Weber, I blame all the people that put these unreasonable expectations on him.

"He can stare you into player better". I've never heard more BS in my life.

Weber is a great defenseman in the traditional sense of the word. He isn't the type of d-man that tilts the ice in all three zones.

He's great without the puck and is probably the best trigger man in the nhl - if properly set up.

A strong number 1 dman needs to be able to do it these days though. He's slowly becoming more a strong number 2 than a strong number 1. And it's going to be a problem for us because instead of having to find a number 2 we will need to find a number 1 which is not easy to do.

 

[jaffy27]

Every save Carey Price has made since Weber has returned is directly related to Weber's stare. Every goal against is Subbans fault.

At least you can acknowledge that since Weber’s return, Price has posted much better numbers.....but really, the ridicule only weakens your points.l, there’s really no need......nobody here thinks Weber’s stare puts us into Stanley Cup contention

 

[LaP]

Who even said the "stare" thing? How dumb was that.

A lot of people did when he starred down at Beaulieu.

 

[Wats]

Maybe Gardiner can be good partner for him. Skates well and has pretty good offensive skill. Wants to carry the puck and have the puck on his stick. Let's Weber lay low and not need to worry about needing to touch the puck outside of onetiming it or knocking it away. Hopefully Weber's strength can make up for Gardiner's weaknesses and together they can make a good pairing.

Gardiner - Weber
Mete - Petry
Kulak/Reilly - Juulsen

 

[CauZuki]

At least you can acknowledge that since Weber’s return, Price has posted much better numbers.....but really, the ridicule only weakens your points.l, there’s really no need......nobody here thinks Weber’s stare puts us into Stanley Cup contention

So what you are saying is that replacing a non-NHL D with Weber makes the team allow less goals? Shocking...
This doesn't speak to Weber being dominant or elite or a game changer , he is simply better than our other options (which isn't saying much).

I'm not a Shea hater but the likelyhood that he improves with age is nearly zero.

 

[Kriss E]

My view is you need a balance of both, you can’t just win with one alor win with the other.

Soft Kovalev was just a talented player.....a pissed off Kovalev that was determined was a beast......it’s all good man, we just differ in philosophy

Kovalev remains Kovalev though.
I think you need some leadership skills to win..surely...but that word gets thrown around more than talent. I've heard leadership, character and attitude thrown out by this Habs org all the time. Did you ever hear them say they lacked talent?...

 

[Sorinth]

I don't blame Weber, I blame all the people that put these unreasonable expectations on him.

"He can stare you into player better". I've never heard more BS in my life.

Weber is a great defenseman in the traditional sense of the word. He isn't the type of d-man that tilts the ice in all three zones.

He's fantastic (used to be elite) without the puck and is probably the best trigger d-man in the nhl - if properly set up.

He won't take control of the game by leading the offense or by possessing the puck like a mad man. That's not where his skill set lies.

The problem is everyone wants Weber to be that three zone d-man who can carry, possess, set up and shoot. He's not that.

He's still great in his own way, but not great enough to be a one-man show.

Keep in mind that the reason everyone wants that three zone d-man is because those types of guys are being recognized as being better/more important then the more traditional d-men.

So there's the very legitimate concern that if you are building a D corp around the traditional views of what defenceman should be that you will get beaten easily by teams who are using more modern approaches.

I'm not sure you can realistically build a great defensive group in today's NHL if Weber is your clear cut #1 guy.

 

[jaffy27]

Kovalev remains Kovalev though.
I think you need some leadership skills to win..surely...but that word gets thrown around more than talent. I've heard leadership, character and attitude thrown out by this Habs org all the time. Did you ever hear them say they lacked talent?...

I’m with you on this one......at the same time, I don’t think they want to devalue their own assets by claiming to everyone they lack talent......leadership is important, but talent is more important.

I believe where they can use the talent card is at the draft.....”we want to draft talented players, we love this player because of his skill set, the league is built for speed and talent”.......

They are slowly getting there, a very big improvement over last year.

Look at the Leafs, all the talent in the world and it looks like they will lose out in the first round for a 3rd straight year.....we need to keep things in perspective.

That LHD needs to be fixed along with special teams.....I’m counting the habs out now so it’s back to cheering for losses.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Who even said the "stare" thing? How dumb was that.

"...So he doesn’t have to say much, all he’s got to (do) is look at you and you snap into shape. He makes you a better coach..."

"...He makes your franchise better when he walks in the door. Bar none."

Babcock, when he was traded from NSH to the Habs.

Canada’s Babcock gushes over Canadiens’ Shea Weber