Proposal: Shattenkirk to NYR

[Dbrownss]

Shattenkirk has already expressed that he likes the Rangers and indicates he wants to play there eventually.

Just sign him when he's a UFA. Spend no assets getting him. Done.

What if....he's traded and signs with one of the 4 teams he said he'd sign with.... boom, there went that plan

That's ultimately why a team will trade for him. Arizona did it with Goligoski, granted no where near the asset cost but the point still remains. If you risk a targeted player hitting FA..you may not get them

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kreider was tied for the 111th most points for a forward this season. Last season he was tied for 94th. That puts him as a #4 forward, which is a really good second line forward. Kreider's very close to first line point production. A small improvement, and he's there. He also is the fastest player in the NHL, one of the few actual power forwards in the league who bring speed, physicality and skill, not just two of those three, and he's the rare player who plays better in the playoffs than the regular season.

Shattenkirk is a good player, but the Rangers would be completely stupid to trade Kreider+ for Shattenkirk.

You should have to add to Shattenkirk for us to make that trade. Kreider for Shattenkirk is probably fair value for both teams, but it doesn't make sense for the Rangers to trade Kreider. For us to trade a player that it doesn't make sense for us to trade, it should need to be an overpayment.

 

[JT Kreider]

What if....he's traded and signs with one of the 4 teams he said he'd sign with.... boom, there went that plan

That's ultimately why a team will trade for him. Arizona did it with Goligoski, granted no where near the asset cost but the point still remains. If you risk a targeted player hitting FA..you may not get them

That's fine with me. Shattenkirk signs elsewhere, and we continue down this path that will lead to us becoming one of the worst teams in the league. The sooner that happens the sooner the much needed rebuild begins and we get those franchise changing talents that are only drafted in the top 3 that we haven't had the chance to draft in over a decade.

The last thing we really need is Shattenkirk, let alone giving up a good young player (when we have so few) to get him.

Not sure of the interest in Shattenkirk from Rangers fans, unless you actually believe we're still legit contenders (I know none of us actually think that) for the next 5 years. Which would be Shatty's true prime before he probably starts to decline a bit.

And I don't have a crystal ball, but with the way the roster is currently constructed even with Shattenkirk we'll still be a non-playoff team very shortly. Unless Kreider, Miller, Buch and Skjei blow up big time and most importantly, Lundqvist finds the fountain of youth and is able to maintain his elite play.

Rangers and Blues probably aren't a good fit, except for a Stepan/McDonagh trade for Fabbri or Parayko.

And Blues fans frightfully so don't want to move either of them, so, no deal to be made.

 

[Dbrownss]

That's fine with me. Shattenkirk signs elsewhere, and we continue down this path that will lead to us becoming one of the worst teams in the league. The sooner that happens the sooner the much needed rebuild begins and we get those franchise changing talents that are only drafted in the top 3 that we haven't had the chance to draft in over a decade.

The last thing we really need is Shattenkirk, let alone giving up a good young player (when we have so few) to get him.

Not sure of the interest in Shattenkirk from Rangers fans, unless you actually believe we're still legit contenders (I know none of us actually think that) for the next 5 years. Which would be Shatty's true prime before he probably starts to decline a bit.

And I don't have a crystal ball, but with the way the roster is currently constructed even with Shattenkirk we'll still be a non-playoff team very shortly. Unless Kreider, Miller, Buch and Skjei blow up big time and most importantly, Lundqvist finds the fountain of youth and is able to maintain his elite play.

Rangers and Blues probably aren't a good fit, except for a Stepan/McDonagh trade for Fabbri or Parayko.

And Blues fans frightfully so don't want to move either of them, so, no deal to be made.

I actually agree with this. If being on a future contending team was Shattenkirk's goal. I don't completely understand the turn off from Edmonton. That's getting off topic though.

I do agree the rangers shouldn't bother with Kirk

 

[Gardner McKay]

Well if Larsson hauled in Hall, would asking for Fabbri be that far out of the question?

If Larsson brought in Hall and McDonagh> Larsson we would need a **** ton more than just Fabbri or Parayko for McDonagh.

As far as Kreider for Shattenkirk, I am not crazy on giving up a top 6 forward RFA for a defenseman that is 1 year away from UFA and until we find a way to move Dan Girardi, we likely wouldn't be able to re-sign said player.

Just doesn't make sense for us right now.

 

[SteenMachine]

I mean the GM already said, at least once if not multiple times he won't trade for Shattenkirk so I don't see the point in arguing semantics on relative value or trying to assume anyone is worth an "elite" return given the pieces mentioned.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Basically. But that just means this is another year down the tubes.

And then the following year with our core another year older and even further declined, what exactly is Shattenkirk going to help solve?

Shatty, while a hell of a player, to NYR makes no sense.

Adding Shattenkirk is not going to make us contenders

 

[Ranksu]

Adding Shattenkirk is not going to make us contenders

You are right.

 

[bernmeister]

Again, I'm not Doug Armstrong, and I don't speak for Blues fans everywhere--but if I'm the Blues' GM, any trade for Shattenkirk has to address a team need. There would be lots of disagreement over how to prioritize those needs, but the way I see it, the Blues most desperately need:

-A #1A/#1B center
-A tough power forward to replace the physical presence of Backes/Brouwer
-Cap friendly contracts

As I said earlier, I absolutely believe Shattenkirk would gladly sign a new contract to play and stay in New York.

McDonagh is an enticing player--any team would want him--but the Blues' would have a hard time fitting him into their cap structure. If we could get out from Bouwmeester's contract, that would be a different story. As currently constructed, the Blues wouldn't want McDonagh as part of any trade. [edit: Blues are looking to move salary from defense and put it into upgrades on offense; long term, trading for McDonogh doesn't help them do that.]

Brassard would be a great addition to the Blues, but again, his salary would be problematic, and I don't think the NYR would move him anyway.

The only pieces I see that the Blues would want from NYR are Kreider, Stepan and Miller. Kreider straight up would be my preference, but it seems that most on here think I'm undervaluing Shattenkirk in that deal.

Someone else suggested a package around Shattenkirk and Schwartz for Stepan and Kreider. Schwartz is by far the best player mentioned, so that conversation would be pretty short, unless you were adding Miller--which tips the scales too far in the other direction. And I can't see NYR giving up that much youth--those players all project as core parts of the Rangers' future, and that's too many moving parts.

I suppose it's too ambitious to dream up a solid hockey trade for both teams, but that's what I'm looking for. Help me out.

We are not moving our young core unless it is super extraordinary

your offers are not, and arguably are not best for nyr

you need Stepan, competitive bid w/rest of league and make a winning offer
YOU adjust your Blues cap to make that happen.

 

[Dk61388]

Shattenkirk for Kreider and Klein or girardi with 2 million retained

 

[Spektre]

If Larsson brought in Hall and McDonagh> Larsson we would need a **** ton more than just Fabbri or Parayko for McDonagh.

As far as Kreider for Shattenkirk, I am not crazy on giving up a top 6 forward RFA for a defenseman that is 1 year away from UFA and until we find a way to move Dan Girardi, we likely wouldn't be able to re-sign said player.

Just doesn't make sense for us right now.

The Hall trade isn't some balance beam to value all future trades around. Edmonton is in a much different roster position than the Blues. I won't go into the specifics on how I think Edmonton got fleeced. The Blues are not trading Fabbri or Parayko. The Blues future hinges a lot on those two players. I don't see anyone in the Rangers organization I'd trade 1 for 1 with Fabbri or Parayko including McDonagh.

 

[Rangers ftw]

Kreider was tied for the 111th most points for a forward this season. Last season he was tied for 94th. That puts him as a #4 forward, which is a really good second line forward. Kreider's very close to first line point production. A small improvement, and he's there. He also is the fastest player in the NHL, one of the few actual power forwards in the league who bring speed, physicality and skill, not just two of those three, and he's the rare player who plays better in the playoffs than the regular season.

Shattenkirk is a good player, but the Rangers would be completely stupid to trade Kreider+ for Shattenkirk.

You should have to add to Shattenkirk for us to make that trade. Kreider for Shattenkirk is probably fair value for both teams, but it doesn't make sense for the Rangers to trade Kreider. For us to trade a player that it doesn't make sense for us to trade, it should need to be an overpayment.

Except he doesn't. And no, running goalies doesn't count

 

[JT Kreider]

The Hall trade isn't some balance beam to value all future trades around. Edmonton is in a much different roster position than the Blues. I won't go into the specifics on how I think Edmonton got fleeced. The Blues are not trading Fabbri or Parayko. The Blues future hinges a lot on those two players. I don't see anyone in the Rangers organization I'd trade 1 for 1 with Fabbri or Parayko including McDonagh.

That last statement is kinda ludicrous. I understand the importance of Fabbri with Backes and Brouwer gone, and even if the Blues defense is already good, McDonagh is that much better than anything you have on the left side.

The Blues with McDonagh instead of Parayko are a much much better team and closer to a contender than they are at this exact point in time. And for the remainder of McDonagh's contract.

Parayko can easily hit a wall next season as many younger defenders do.

McDonagh for Parayko is a trade we lose in the present, and probably for the next 3-5 years.

Bouwmeester, Lindbolm, Edmundson is nothing special. Edmundson in fact I probably take over Bouwmeester right now, he was pretty good this season.

You guys gotta keep up in that Central. Most teams got considerably better, while losing Backes and Brouwer is a pretty big blow. And it seems like Steen is always getting hurt at the worst times and can't be relied on for a full 82.

 

[Spektre]

That last statement is kinda ludicrous. I understand the importance of Fabbri with Backes and Brouwer gone, and even if the Blues defense is already good, McDonagh is that much better than anything you have on the left side.

The Blues with McDonagh instead of Parayko are a much much better team and closer to a contender than they are at this exact point in time. And for the remainder of McDonagh's contract.

Parayko can easily hit a wall next season as many younger defenders do.

McDonagh for Parayko is a trade we lose in the present, and probably for the next 3-5 years.

Bouwmeester, Lindbolm, Edmundson is nothing special. Edmundson in fact I probably take over Bouwmeester right now, he was pretty good this season.

You're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't argue with you over the fact that McDonagh would be the best LHD on the Blues roster. Giving up Fabbri or Parayko for him though wouldn't be good asset management.

Most Blues fans see Parayko as having close to Pronger potential. I created a poll on the Blues board some time ago on whether they would rather have Parayko or Matthews. Parayko won the poll. Ten years from now that may wind up being the wrong choice but that is how high people are on Parayko.

Having McDonagh on the left side of Pietrangelo would be a luxury and not necessarily a need. Pie can carry the top pairing and Parayko will be able to carry the 2nd.

The Blues biggest depth is defense by far. It's not just at the NHL level.
The minors are stockpiled and there could be a couple making the push to the NHL next year. Edmundson had a good rookie year but he struggled in the playoffs. I doubt he can eat up 1st pairing minutes like J-Bow can. J-Bow is most likely left exposed for the new Vegas team.

The Blues obvious need is center and specifically a true #1. Trading Fabbri or Parayko for an upgrade at LHD just isn't rational even if the value is "fair".

 

[JT Kreider]

You're entitled to your opinion. I wouldn't argue with you over the fact that McDonagh would be the best LHD on the Blues roster. Giving up Fabbri or Parayko for him though wouldn't be good asset management.

Most Blues fans see Parayko as having close to Pronger potential. I created a poll on the Blues board some time ago on whether they would rather have Parayko or Matthews. Parayko won the poll. Ten years from now that may wind up being the wrong choice but that is how high people are on Parayko.

Having McDonagh on the left side of Pietrangelo would be a luxury and not necessarily a need. Pie can carry the top pairing and Parayko will be able to carry the 2nd.

The Blues biggest depth is defense by far. It's not just at the NHL level.
The minors are stockpiled and there could be a couple making the push to the NHL next year. Edmundson had a good rookie year but he struggled in the playoffs. I doubt he can eat up 1st pairing minutes like J-Bow can. J-Bow is most likely left exposed for the new Vegas team.

The Blues obvious need is center and specifically a true #1. Trading Fabbri or Parayko for an upgrade at LHD just isn't rational even if the value is "fair".

You say the Blues obvious need is a true #1. Where do you plan on getting that? Highly unlikely any team who plans on still contending any time soon trades one. And it would probably cost you both Fabbri and Parayko if you're thinking a Subban, Doughty, the "true" #1 defenseman. And probably a high pick.

Edit: nvm read it wrong you said #1c not d.

 

[Spektre]

You say the Blues obvious need is a true #1. Where do you plan on getting that? Highly unlikely any team who plans on still contending any time soon trades one. And it would probably cost you both Fabbri and Parayko if you're thinking a Subban, Doughty, the "true" #1 defenseman. And probably a high pick.

I have no idea where the Blues will get a #1 center. One idea would be to trade Parayko for a Draisatl type deal. Another idea is that Fabbri becomes the #1C. Yet another would be for the Blues to tank next year in the hopes of landing Patrick. That last option would be my preferred as it would probably spell the end of Armstrong as well.

 

[JT Kreider]

I have no idea where the Blues will get a #1 center. One idea would be to trade Parayko for a Draisatl type deal. Another idea is that Fabbri becomes the #1C. Yet another would be for the Blues to tank next year in the hopes of landing Patrick. That last option would be my preferred as it would probably spell the end of Armstrong as well.

Drai for Parayko would've been a perfect trade before Hall. And I bet Oil fans would be a lot more pleased with it as well. All the talk about wanting to get tougher. Well there's your Shea Weber Jr., you keep Hall. And I'm not all that impressed with Larsson, based on what I've seen the past few years.

At this point in time he is at best a great #3, decent #2 if need be on an actually good team. I don't think throwing him into the fire with all those expectations is going to work out so well this season.

I actually thought one of his better seasons was his rookie year, no coincidence insulated by veterans and an actually really good team.

 

[kurt]

Based on the Larsson deal, it would take a Malkin/Ovechkin/Crosby/Kane type player to land Shattenkirk.

(just teasing, lol @ the Oilers)

 

[TGWL]

Krieder is not Jesus, contrary to what you think. He's good, but very streaky and easily tradeable. If Kreider was traded for Shattenkirk I would drive him to LaGuardia myself.

You didn't read the story about how Kreider came before Jesus? And how the Atlantic Ocean was created from him jumping out of the Pacific Ocean?

 

[Lundy HOF]

You didn't read the story about how Kreider came before Jesus? And how the Atlantic Ocean was created from him jumping out of the Pacific Ocean?

Don't troll - that's pure unmitigated insanity. You trade your most physically gifted player, who while streaky, may one day figure it out for a Dman who is one year from UFA. The Rangers haven been bad in the asset management category what that one would be one for the ages.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Rangers fans overrate Kreider like Blues fans overrated Perron.

 

[TGWL]

Don't troll - that's pure unmitigated insanity. You trade your most physically gifted player, who while streaky, may one day figure it out for a Dman who is one year from UFA. The Rangers haven been bad in the asset management category what that one would be one for the ages.

I wouldn't make the trade either. Money and the fact that he might not even stay with us is huge.

Kreider is one of the most physical, non-physical players I have ever seen. Sure he may "one day", figure it out, but if we weren't already paying Girardi and Staal a huge amount, and Shatt was willing to sign with us, I'd definitely make the trade, and that's mainly because I don't see having Kreider as that much of a difference maker.

Kreider has done nothing to warrant being on an untouchable list. He came in and had a great playoff run with us, then all of a sudden there was this hype that he was going to be a 30+ goal scoring star. He's not that. Was never going to be that. Somewhere in the middle would be great for him and for the Rangers. Great Speed, Hard Shot, and his hands are probably better than most people give him credit for, but the brain isn't there. I don't know if it's confidence or just bad hockey sense.

 

[JT Kreider]

Rangers fans overrate Kreider like Blues fans overrated Perron.

Is saying that it doesn't make sense to trade one of our few good young players for a defenseman who really makes no difference for us? He's a great player, but the Rangers with or without Shattenkirk are a bubble playoff team, but certainly not a contender.

The Rangers with or without Shattenkirk will be the worst team in the Metro within 3 years.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

I've gotta say I just love all the "adding ______ won't make us contenders!" that is thrown around with such certainty.

I wonder how many Pens fans said "adding ______ won't make us contenders!"

Fill in the blank with any of the following:

Hagelin
Bonino
Cullen
Lovejoy
Cole
Daley


Hell, many were convinced Kessel was the wrong move for that team.

And yet, all of those moves ultimately contributed to the Penguins going on a run from January to June that culminated in a Stanley Cup.

It just proves that none of us, including the 30 GMs have any idea how a few additions / subtractions will affect the chemistry and makeup of a team.

Chemistry is intangible.

I think with a goalie like Lundqvist and any half decent core (which we do have), we're only ever a few key moves away from contention.

We're certainly closer to contention than to the 1st overall pick, at least IMO.

 

[SteenMachine]

You guys crack me up "This team is nowhere good enough to contend, maybe even make the playoffs." "We can't afford to give up anyone from our core they're too important!" For what? What are you doing with them that's so significant if improving the team is meaningless due to an overpaid and underperforming core? I don't care if you want Shattenkirk it just seems like a mixed message to defend the players you have as really important but the next few seasons are all a waste of time.