Proposal: Shattenkirk to NYR

[Guyute]

It's no guarantee that Shattenkirk will sign with the Rangers as a UFA.

It's no guarantee he hits UFA if he gets traded to Boston or some place closer to home.

However, if he does make it to UFA it's almost a sure thing he signs with NYR

 

[bleedblue1223]

It's no guarantee he hits UFA if he gets traded to Boston or some place closer to home.

However, if he does make it to UFA it's almost a sure thing he signs with NYR

Just like it was for Stamkos signing in Toronto? This narrative on HF is such complete crap.

 

[gorangers0525]

Rangers could get a prime Bobby Orr next year and not be contenders, if they were smart they'd wait until free agency to make any offers.

 

[Captain Timo]

No clue why the Rangers would go after Shattenkirk.. Their window has closed, time to rebuild through the draft. Shattenkirk is good but he isn't the answer, or anything close to it.

 

[TGWL]

No clue why Rangers would trade for a guy who they can just sign in a year. He wants to play for us! I mean, he spends his off-season training here... Oh, wait, wrong guy. Clearly that worked for Boston. Kinda' tired of seeing that.

I do agree that 1 year is not worth it though. There needs to be something in the works for me to consider trading a good player, for a player 1 year away from being a UFA.

 

[AimBot]

I think this is the most realistic trade for both sides:

Shattenkirk (1 yr, 4.25m)
Berglund (1 yr, 3.7m)
1st round pick (conditional based on Shattenkirk signing long term. If he signs, no pick is traded. If he doesn't sign, pick is traded)

for

Brassard (3 yrs, 5m)
Klein (2 yrs, 2.9m)

The salary is almost exactly the same, but NY can let Berglund walk at the end of the year and resign Shattenkirk.

 

[Section32]

Streaky players don't just stop being streaky, that's the problem. Every fanbase overrates the players that have very high physical gifts.

Players that have become high impact players on their NHL teams are not prospects.

Sadly my point was lost on you.

Rangers don't over-rate Kreider. If he keeps playing like this the next 150 games and you still see threads like this than yes it would be overrated.

What we are saying, is that he has a very high chance of becoming more consistent, and in in that, being a true power forward.

He of all players on their club has that caveat.

Ask me about anyone else and I will give an honest answer.

He is too young to just say "this is who he is..." His physical tools are there and as we all know, true power forwards take longer to develop.

You seem to be glossing over my posts and then responding.

 

[67Blues]

I think this is the most realistic trade for both sides:

Shattenkirk (1 yr, 4.25m)
Berglund (1 yr, 3.7m)
1st round pick (conditional based on Shattenkirk signing long term. If he signs, no pick is traded. If he doesn't sign, pick is traded)

for

Brassard (3 yrs, 5m)
Klein (2 yrs, 2.9m)

The salary is almost exactly the same, but NY can let Berglund walk at the end of the year and resign Shattenkirk.

No interest in Klein. We are trying to open up spots on the defense for our kids to step up. Brassard doesn't move the needle for me at all for both Shatty and Berglund. The first is too risky as our first next year could be higher than normal as it appears this coming year is a bit of a retool for the team.

 

[JT Kreider]

I think this is the most realistic trade for both sides:

Shattenkirk (1 yr, 4.25m)
Berglund (1 yr, 3.7m)
1st round pick (conditional based on Shattenkirk signing long term. If he signs, no pick is traded. If he doesn't sign, pick is traded)

for

Brassard (3 yrs, 5m)
Klein (2 yrs, 2.9m)

The salary is almost exactly the same, but NY can let Berglund walk at the end of the year and resign Shattenkirk.

The 1st is nice, but I'd rather just trade Brassard for all young pieces. Seems like a sideways move, and then on top of having to pay Shattenkirk a long term $6 million+ deal. We'd have to make other moves on top of this to make sense. Like trading Nash to Nash for a package with Jarnkrok.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sadly my point was lost on you.

Rangers don't over-rate Kreider. If he keeps playing like this the next 150 games and you still see threads like this than yes it would be overrated.

What we are saying, is that he has a very high chance of becoming more consistent, and in in that, being a true power forward.

He of all players on their club has that caveat.

Ask me about anyone else and I will give an honest answer.

He is too young to just say "this is who he is..." His physical tools are there and as we all know, true power forwards take longer to develop.

You seem to be glossing over my posts and then responding.

Between his age (25) and NHL games (248), he's getting very close to that plateau point where any significant improvement should not be expected. Production typically peaks around this time, stays consistent for a few years and then begins to dip.

That's the average argument, but what about the actual player side. Kreider has certain things that he lacks in that limits his ability to improve. His hockey sense and the tendency to not act like a power forward. Those aren't things that can just be improved upon with hard work.

Kreider is overrated because Rangers fans think the chances of Kreider becoming that "monster" are higher than they actually are IMO. He's a good secondary/supplementary piece, but I seriously doubt he becomes more than that.

 

[westc2]

Okay for the future you need to ask.

Will this trade help the Blues chances of winning the Cup in 2017? Losing Shattenkirk and adding Kreider + will definitely not. The only way the Blues trade Shattenkirk this offseason is if it returns a definite top line center or left-winger. Anything else wouldn't have as much of an impact on the team as keeping Shattenkirk would.

So Shattenkirk would be traded to a team that see's themselves as a playoff team and has an abundance of star forwards but is weak on defense.

 

[JT Kreider]

Between his age (25) and NHL games (248), he's getting very close to that plateau point where any significant improvement should not be expected. Production typically peaks around this time, stays consistent for a few years and then begins to dip.

That's the average argument, but what about the actual player side. Kreider has certain things that he lacks in that limits his ability to improve. His hockey sense and the tendency to not act like a power forward. Those aren't things that can just be improved upon with hard work.

Kreider is overrated because Rangers fans think the chances of Kreider becoming that "monster" are higher than they actually are IMO. He's a good secondary/supplementary piece, but I seriously doubt he becomes more than that.

True. But we shouldn't just give up on him at 25, especially when we have so few young players.

Kreider is like 5th or 6th on the list of players who should be traded (excluding Girardi), and is like 14th on the list of problems with this team.

You guys are all high and mighty on Fabbri because of one impressive playoff performance.

Kreider has had 3 of those already. People rag on us for Nash's crap playoff showings, but then don't give Kreider his due.

Nearly every big playoff win we've had since 2012, Kreider has been at front and center.

 

[bleedblue1223]

True. But we shouldn't just give up on him at 25, especially when we have so few young players.

Kreider is like 5th or 6th on the list of players who should be traded (excluding Girardi), and is like 14th on the list of problems with this team.

You guys are all high and mighty on Fabbri because of one impressive playoff performance.

Kreider has had 3 of those already. People rag on us for Nash's crap playoff showings, but then don't give Kreider his due.

Nearly every big playoff win we've had since 2012, Kreider has been at front and center.

We are high and mighty on Fabbri because he was our best forward from the all-star break to the end of the playoffs.

I'm not saying you should give Kreider up or that he is worthless, just that you guys overrate him. He's like a Perron, a great secondary piece. That just means he needs a reasonable cap hit, and that his trade value isn't anything special, but those types of players play big roles in advancing in the playoffs. Still doesn't mean that he can be a main piece in a deal for a high-end player. His value isn't all that different from a Nyquist or Tatar.

 

[TGWL]

True. But we shouldn't just give up on him at 25, especially when we have so few young players.

Kreider is like 5th or 6th on the list of players who should be traded (excluding Girardi), and is like 14th on the list of problems with this team.

You guys are all high and mighty on Fabbri because of one impressive playoff performance.

Kreider has had 3 of those already. People rag on us for Nash's crap playoff showings, but then don't give Kreider his due.

Nearly every big playoff win we've had since 2012, Kreider has been at front and center.

I don't see trading him as giving up on him. Right now a lot of GM's probably think the same way, "If this kid puts it together, he's going to be something special." To me it's more about pulling the trigger and trading for a piece/pieces we need going forward.

Kreider having 5-10 more goals doesn't change the type of player he is. There's been plenty of opportunities for Kreider to bury some more goals, so it's not unrealistic to say he could be a 30 goal scorer. It's everything else about his game that needs to become consistent.

 

[JT Kreider]

We are high and mighty on Fabbri because he was our best forward from the all-star break to the end of the playoffs.

I'm not saying you should give Kreider up or that he is worthless, just that you guys overrate him. He's like a Perron, a great secondary piece. That just means he needs a reasonable cap hit, and that his trade value isn't anything special, but those types of players play big roles in advancing in the playoffs. Still doesn't mean that he can be a main piece in a deal for a high-end player. His value isn't all that different from a Nyquist or Tatar.

Yeah, but mostly everyone who posts here overrates their good young players on this site. And tries to undermine the opposing teams players that they are proposing trades for, as if that has any bearing on the actual trade negotiations between the GM's.

Either way though, I'm still fine with what Kreider is. On what management envisions this team to be, Kreider is fine as a 20-23 goal-scoring top 6 forward who comes up big in the postseason. The problem is the rest of the roster is flawed.

Stepan isn't a #1c that you need to win the Cup. Nash can't be relied upon to score a big goal when it matters. Staal and Girardi are pathetic as top 4 defenseman. McDonagh is always getting hurt as the worst possible times. We don't have anyone such as a Sheary, Rust, Kuhnackl, etc. that can immediately step into the lineup and contribute the way we need them to. Lundqvist is probably starting to decline a bit. Or good young goalies such as Holtby, Bishop and Schneider have gotten better and definitely surpassed him.

And our coach puts all these players in a gargantuan position to fail.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, but mostly everyone who posts here overrates their good young players on this site. And tries to undermine the opposing teams players that they are proposing trades for, as if that has any bearing on the actual trade negotiations between the GM's.

That's why I started it with something that Blues fans did that I always shook my head at, Blues fans did the same thing with Perron and his hands/puck skills. Physical tools get very overrated on here.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I'd rather it be Stepan than Kreider. He is more of a need and probably a better player.

He is definitely a better player.

I love Shattenkirk but I have very little interest in moving top 6 forwards for a player AV is going to play on our 3rd pair. Fire the clown behind the bench first, and we'll talk.

Eh, I think Shattenkirk would get used better than Yandle did for two reasons: 1-He's right handed and 2-he's stronger "defensively" than Yandle is. I loved Yandle, but Shattenkirk is better than him.

I think if AV was given a prime Kevin Shattenkirk and played him on the 3rd pair behind Girardi and Klein I like to think he's be fired. With Yandle, while I disagreed with his usage, I could see AV's reasoning. With Shattenkirk he'd instantly be our best RH defenseman by far and should be deployed accordingly getting roughly the same minutes as McDonagh.

 

[Majorityof1]

No interest in Klein. We are trying to open up spots on the defense for our kids to step up. Brassard doesn't move the needle for me at all for both Shatty and Berglund. The first is too risky as our first next year could be higher than normal as it appears this coming year is a bit of a retool for the team.

If Schmaltz isn't ready (and I'm inclined to think he isn't yet), then Klein would make a decent 3rd pairing RHD. A couple knowledgeable posters on the Blues board want to sign a cheap veteran third pairing guy rather than having Lindbohm rot in the press box as the 7th D. Klein is more expensive than is ideal, but if that's what it takes to even out a deal for Brassard, there is some utility out of it vs a straight cap dump.

JBo-Petro
Gunnar - Parayko
Eddy - Klein
Bortz

Top AHL pair, injury call-ups: Lindbohm - Schmaltz

That's not saying I pull the trigger on the deal. I'd rather give Lehtera, a true center, if we are getting Brassard back than Berglund who is more of a wing. And the conditional first sucks, because I would hate to lose a first for a couple 29+ year olds. We need to restock the prospect cupboard. But Brassard is a good fit with speed and a goal-scoring acumen, two things we need. I'd try to haggle a few points, but would strongly consider it.

 

[BA Carroll]

I'm still holding out hope, a deal built around Shattenkirk for Kreider can be worked out.

Hoping to somehow flip Shattenkirk, and some combination of Berglund, Sobotka, Jaskin, Rattie, Barbashev and Butler,to NYR and CBJ for a starting lineup of of:

Fabbri--Lehtera--Tarasenko
Schwartz--Steen--Perron
Kreider--Stastny--Hartnell
Upshall--Brodziak--Reaves/Ferraro

Stranger things have happened.

Yes--I heard you Rangers fans the first time when you insisted that Kreider would not be moved, and you prefer waiting until KS becomes UFA. I get it. But go whiz in somebody else's corn flakes.

 

[JT Kreider]

I'm still holding out hope, a deal built around Shattenkirk for Kreider can be worked out.

Hoping to somehow flip Shattenkirk, and some combination of Berglund, Sobotka, Jaskin, Rattie, Barbashev and Butler,to NYR and CBJ for a starting lineup of of:

Fabbri--Lehtera--Tarasenko
Schwartz--Steen--Perron
Kreider--Stastny--Hartnell
Upshall--Brodziak--Reaves/Ferraro

Stranger things have happened.

Yes--I heard you Rangers fans the first time when you insisted that Kreider would not be moved, and you prefer waiting until KS becomes UFA. I get it. But go whiz in somebody else's corn flakes.

I mean in a vacuum this is a fair deal. Or if this was 2 years ago and the Rangers were still a legit contender.

 

[bernmeister]

The 1st is nice, but I'd rather just trade Brassard for all young pieces. Seems like a sideways move, and then on top of having to pay Shattenkirk a long term $6 million+ deal. We'd have to make other moves on top of this to make sense. Like trading Nash to Nash for a package with Jarnkrok.

This makes more sense, but if we had permission to speak with KS first and he agreed to stay UFA after this deal and wait until the expansion draft passed, so we could THEN give him that kind of $$$, I would MAYBE consider it.

But with Brass also being in demand, it would have to be worth our while.

Stepan + Staal reduced to 4 (assuming he waives)
for
KS, 2017 1st + acceptable cap dump
looks good

Yeah, but mostly everyone who posts here overrates their good young players on this site. And tries to undermine the opposing teams players that they are proposing trades for, as if that has any bearing on the actual trade negotiations between the GM's.

Either way though, I'm still fine with what Kreider is. On what management envisions this team to be, Kreider is fine as a 20-23 goal-scoring top 6 forward who comes up big in the postseason. The problem is the rest of the roster is flawed.

Stepan isn't a #1c that you need to win the Cup. Nash can't be relied upon to score a big goal when it matters. Staal and Girardi are pathetic as top 4 defenseman. McDonagh is always getting hurt as the worst possible times. We don't have anyone such as a Sheary, Rust, Kuhnackl, etc. that can immediately step into the lineup and contribute the way we need them to. Lundqvist is probably starting to decline a bit. Or good young goalies such as Holtby, Bishop and Schneider have gotten better and definitely surpassed him.

And our coach puts all these players in a gargantuan position to fail.

Good analysis, and we should not compound the problem by being negative on Kreider when we should be canning AV.

I'm still holding out hope, a deal built around Shattenkirk for Kreider can be worked out.

Hoping to somehow flip Shattenkirk, and some combination of Berglund, Sobotka, Jaskin, Rattie, Barbashev and Butler,to NYR and CBJ for a starting lineup of of:

Fabbri--Lehtera--Tarasenko
Schwartz--Steen--Perron
Kreider--Stastny--Hartnell
Upshall--Brodziak--Reaves/Ferraro

Stranger things have happened.

Yes--I heard you Rangers fans the first time when you insisted that Kreider would not be moved, and you prefer waiting until KS becomes UFA. I get it. But go whiz in somebody else's corn flakes.

If you want to be an obstinate contrarian, you deserve to get a whizzing.

You want us to pay for Shatty even though there are acceptable odds he might not only come here for free, but workaround his re-signing so we can bypass the expansion draft, I am willing to listen to a discounted price, but for the last time, bend, buckle and break, Kreider is not likely to go at all and if he does, not in this type of deal!

 

[Evocable Manager]

This makes more sense, but if we had permission to speak with KS first and he agreed to stay UFA after this deal and wait until the expansion draft passed, so we could THEN give him that kind of $$$, I would MAYBE consider it.

But with Brass also being in demand, it would have to be worth our while.

Stepan + Staal reduced to 4 (assuming he waives)
for
KS, 2017 1st + acceptable cap dump
looks good



Good analysis, and we should not compound the problem by being negative on Kreider when we should be canning AV.





If you want to be an obstinate contrarian, you deserve to get a whizzing.

You want us to pay for Shatty even though there are acceptable odds he might not only come here for free, but workaround his re-signing so we can bypass the expansion draft, I am willing to listen to a discounted price, but for the last time, bend, buckle and break, Kreider is not likely to go at all and if he does, not in this type of deal!

We have no need, interest, or want in an aging Marc Staal who isn't getting any better or improving our team. And we certainly won't be giving a 1st if he's included. We have our version of Staal in Bouwmeester. An aging, veteran defenseman with an albatross contract.

I definitely wouldn't pay more than Shattenkirk (extended) for Stepan. I really don't care what you say, or your argument. A 2nd line center in my mind should be equal to a 2nd pairing defenseman.