Dreger: Shattenkirk price as rental

[BangarangxRufio]

Easy choice? LOL!

Look at the average age of the Rangers, and then look again at just how good they actually are.

holy underrating of the BEST eastern conference team since AV joined.

are younger by over a year on team average. and their team is driven by 3 rookies who are going to be better than any 3 of the Rangers youth. Their team is better set for future success.

 

[Liferleafer]

Ok, but let's take off the rose colored glasses and look at the negatives.

High Tax Rate - check
Incomparable media scrutiny - check
Being paid in USD and having bills in CAD can mean fluctuations in currency can have a huge impact on take home pay (positive and negative. The key here is uncertainty) - check

Unless the Canadian dollar becomes higher than the American dollar, there is no uncertainty. And LOL if you believe that will happen.

 

[57special]

Understand trajectory?

The Leafs aren't even my favorite team and I'm here defending them

As an organization, it's been decades since they've been on the cusp of becoming a serious contender for years. They have an elite coach, manager, visionary, and incredible nucleus of young talent. Only a Leafs hater would deny that they could soon be a legit contender for many years to come.

Do you work for the TML front office. Cause I'm not seeing what you are seeing.

Trajectory? I'm old enough to remember the pre 68 Leafs, and certainly the Gilmour Leafs. The present version has some talent, but they have a long ways to go. They, and EDM, are in very similar positions.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Do you work for the TML front office. Cause I'm not seeing what you are seeing.

Trajectory? I'm old enough to remember the pre 68 Leafs, and certainly the Gilmour Leafs. The present version has some talent, but they have a long ways to go. They, and EDM, are in very similar positions.

Yeah, both TOR and EDM are on the verge of becoming the main contenders in the league.

 

[TheGuarantee]

are younger by over a year on team average. and their team is driven by 3 rookies who are going to be better than any 3 of the Rangers youth. Their team is better set for future success.

No no you have zero bias here at all.

 

[TheGuarantee]

Lets not go that far.

Numbers don't lie. It's fact. Look at winning % since then. NYR is 3rd in NHL and 1st in the East.

 

[Liferleafer]

Do you work for the TML front office. Cause I'm not seeing what you are seeing.

Trajectory? I'm old enough to remember the pre 68 Leafs, and certainly the Gilmour Leafs. The present version has some talent, but they have a long ways to go. They, and EDM, are in very similar positions.

I am old enough to remember sitting at the Gardens during the '67 cup run. The present version is a little further along than "having some talent".

 

[SirPaste]

No no you have zero bias here at all.

He's a Blues fan, maybe your the one who is biased

 

[57special]

Yeah, both TOR and EDM are on the verge of becoming the main contenders in the league.

And the Yeo led Blues!

Yeo has caught a lot of flak, but he was a good coach, and if he learned a couple of lessons from his last stop, could end up being a very good coach for you guys. He is also very good at gameplanning for PO series. People forget that Parise was out for the series in DAL last year, and they basically had no goalie in some of the earlier losses to CHI.

I am not crazy about facing STL in the PO's.

 

[TheGuarantee]

He's a Blues fan, maybe your the one who is biased

I haven't said anything discrediting the Leafs in any way. But yeah I have bias. Not the "Rangers of Leafs? EASY choice!" Guy....

 

[TheGuarantee]

Yeah, but let's assume that Shattenkirk improves your team so you're picking around 25-28. At that point, the player you are picking is unlikely to be much of an NHL'er, ever, and even if he does turn out to be something, will probably take 4-5 years before he can begin to contribute in any meaningful way. Is that such a big loss, vs. the sure thing of Shattenkirk filling a position of need?

I know you guys are gunshy because of some previous deals( though Duclair is not such a loss after all, is he?), but offering a 3rd to STL is basically saying we aren't interested.

If the NYR don't think they can compete for a Cup with Shattenkirk in the lineup, then fine, don't do the deal, but let's not pretend that a late 2017 1st and a prospect (or Vesey) is some huge haul for STL.

Duclair isn't much of a loss at all, and it's not that they don't believe they can compete, I honestly believe come deadline day Shattenkirk will be a Ranger, I just think the rumor of the third is either a response to the rumor of Blues asking for Miller and a 1st, or they feel they shouldn't give up assets and just sign him

 

[57special]

I am old enough to remember sitting at the Gardens during the '67 cup run. The present version is a little further along than "having some talent".

Your user name disqualifies you from any objective analysis. Who was more talented? Sittler, Macdonald, and Salming, or Mathews, Marner, and Rielly?

 

[Liferleafer]

I haven't said anything discrediting the Leafs in any way. But yeah I have bias. Not the "Rangers of Leafs? EASY choice!" Guy....

Maybe not an easy choice, but a fair statement. In 3-5 years, which team do you think has the better chance of winning, looking at what they have right now....TO or Rangers?

 

[Boxscore]

Exactly, the Leafs window is now open IMO.

The Leafs strike me as "that team" who can sneak into the playoffs and surprise the heck out of everyone, including themselves. After that, it's up, up, up in the years following. I absolutely love their future... and like I said, not even my favorite team, but they are a joy to watch.

 

[57special]

Duclair isn't much of a loss at all, and it's not that they don't believe they can compete, I honestly believe come deadline day Shattenkirk will be a Ranger, I just think the rumor of the third is either a response to the rumor of Blues asking for Miller and a 1st, or they feel they shouldn't give up assets and just sign him

Miller is too much, I agree. Vesey isn't, I don't think, but I don't watch enough Rangers to know.

My main point is that Shatty has value for SOME contending teams, not so much for bubble teams. Know which one you are. He isn't a very good defender, but is a kick ass point producer. Does that fit a team need? If so, then go for it.

I completely forgot about the ED angle...that matters.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

No no you have zero bias here at all.

I'm a fan and a hockey fan, explain how I am bias towards the . Their youth core is one of the best in the NHL and they all cannot legally drink in the US.

 

[TheGuarantee]

Maybe not an easy choice, but a fair statement. In 3-5 years, which team do you think has the better chance of winning, looking at what they have right now....TO or Rangers?

That's quite possibly the most ridiculous statement you can make. You have zero clue what the teams will look like, and both have extremely promising young pieces. Just in the last five years:

Rangers have added:
Hayes, Zibanejad, Vesey, Miller, Buchnevich, Nash, Lindberg, Fast, Pirri, Puempel, Holden, Skjei, Raanta, Grabner.

That's 14 guys that were not on the roster 5 years ago.

And while Kreider, Hayes, Miller, Zbad, and Stepan are a few years older than Matthews and co, it's asinine to believe they'd be over the hill. Hell some of them haven't even reached their prime. JT Miller, Kreider, and Hayes are finally coming into their own and are flat out dominating teams.

Frankly it's quite ignorant to say the Leafs > Rangers in 5 years

 

[TheGuarantee]

I'm a fan and a hockey fan, explain how I am bias towards the . Their youth core is one of the best in the NHL and they all cannot legally drink in the US.

I apologize I thought your avatar was video game Kadri. Maybe because the Rangers core is as you stated only a year younger but with much more success

 

[TheGuarantee]

I apologize I thought your avatar was video game Kadri. Maybe because the Rangers core is as you stated only a year younger but with much more success

Year older* can't edit

 

[Liferleafer]

Your user name disqualifies you from any objective analysis. Who was more talented. Sittler, Macdonald, and Salming, or Mathews, Marner, and Rielly?

Sheer talent? Well, it's early on....but i will try:

Sittler>Matthews. Sittler played a better 2 way game...but Matthews is still very young.

Marner>Lanny. I love Lanny, but skill wise it's Marner.

Salming>>>Rielly. This one really isn't close.

The disclaimer in all of this is the style of game is nothing like it was back then. Matthews/marner's speed are better than Sittler/Lanny's ever was, but the kids would have a tougher time in the more physical clutch and grab days of the past. Now, Salming is just plain better than Rielly....in whichever era.

 

[AvroArrow]

Well, I guess we disagree. I'm not a fan of the "we're rebuilding" mentality. It's like the Oilers and Avs - always "rebuilding." Kevin Shattenkirk is 28 years old - right around when many defensemen hit their peak - he's not 33.

If the Leafs can trade for Shattenkirk and sign him to a 5-7 year deal, they'll have an upper-echelon, Top-3 D who is lights-out offensively to be a MAIN piece on an up-and-coming team for the long haul. At the END of his new deal he'll be 33-35 MAX. Guys like Andrei Markov are still productive at 38.

I don't care if the Leafs are "Rebuilding" - their rebuild was expedited by the play of Matthews and Marner this year. They are at the very least 1 year ahead of where they expected to be this year IMO.

If you can add a player like Shattenkirk still in his 20's to be a leader and minute-munching defenseman without removing a CORE piece, you would be crazy not to. It's not like he's some over-the-hill has been.

That right there is the problem. You dont take that kind of gamble in this situation.

 

[Liferleafer]

That's quite possibly the most ridiculous statement you can make. You have zero clue what the teams will look like, and both have extremely promising young pieces. Just in the last five years:

Rangers have added:
Hayes, Zibanejad, Vesey, Miller, Buchnevich, Nash, Lindberg, Fast, Pirri, Puempel, Holden, Skjei, Raanta, Grabner.

That's 14 guys that were not on the roster 5 years ago.

And while Kreider, Hayes, Miller, Zbad, and Stepan are a few years older than Matthews and co, it's asinine to believe they'd be over the hill. Hell some of them haven't even reached their prime. JT Miller, Kreider, and Hayes are finally coming into their own and are flat out dominating teams.

Frankly it's quite ignorant to say the Leafs > Rangers in 5 years

Which is precisely why i said "with the way the teams are RIGHT NOW". Meaning, take both young cores...So...the bolded for the Rangers, and for the Leafs:

Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Rielly, Carrick, Hyman, Soshnikov, Kapanen, Lievo, Liepcic. Those are all guys with at least a few NHL games. That doesn't include guys like Bracco, Nielson, Dermott, Valiev, Timashov, Lindberg on the farm.

I left out Kadri, Zaitsev and JVR due to age, but they aren't seniors either.

Call me a homer if you'd like, but i will take Toronto's young core all day every day.

 

[Dbrownss]

Sweet mother of god...wtf is going on?

Are people arguing over getting Shattenkirk without wanting to get Shattenkirk?


On the rumor front, Shattenkirk seemed to open up his public willingness to play in other cities besides NY after the Rangers balked at paying him what he's worth or trade for him. Wonder if that left a bad taste in his mouth....

 

[Liferleafer]

Sweet mother of god...wtf is going on?

Are people arguing over getting Shattenkirk without wanting to get Shattenkirk?

I want to get Shattenkirk.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

I apologize I thought your avatar was video game Kadri. Maybe because the Rangers core is as you stated only a year younger but with much more success

I like a lot of the younger guys too though. Miller/Hayes are going to produce more than they already have this year, and hopefully ZIB/Vessey live up to their potential. If that occurs the Rangers will be a very strong team for a long time, i just dont know your goalie situation after Lundy goes. What is your backup youth situation like?

P.S. if you do detect and bias here, its because I'm still mad the didn't get Grabner