Seth Jones and his future (Sportsnet reports he intends to test free agency)

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CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
Jun 13, 2009
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Is there anything regarding Seth that Jarmo said, other than saying there's no ultimatum?

Saying that, by itself, isn't that telling to me. I'm not sure if this even qualifies as news, either regarding Seth's plans or Jarmo's.

- If Seth is interested in staying, Jarmo saying there is an ultimatum will create a public spectacle, with plenty of unwanted news stories about an impending trade. The team won't want a ton of speculation about an impending rebuild which would hurt the team's reputation, and they won't want extra public pressure on Seth.

- If Seth is not interested in staying, all the same speculation and pressure. Jarmo won't want the extra pressure to box him in and limit his trade options, he'd rather make news when he has deals to announce.

Edit: Has a team ever announced an ultimatum before the negotiation period begins? Does the league allow that sort of pre-negotiation posturing?

Jarmo typically does boring no headlines quotes.

I figured in this situation,one where you would think he would be very careful with his words publicly, would just punt and say "We don't want to think of that situation right now. Our goal is to sign Seth Jones." or something like that. But by saying "we won't trade him" (even if I think he's bluffing) it kind of soft implies you know he's not or are preparing for that.
 

Cyclones Rock

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This team is a ground floor rebuild right now. Jones isn't going to be vital to it. He's not Norris material nor was he ever.

No albatross contract and if he's unsigned by a month into the season (at the latest) then send him packing.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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Jarmo typically does boring no headlines quotes.

I figured in this situation,one where you would think he would be very careful with his words publicly, would just punt and say "We don't want to think of that situation right now. Our goal is to sign Seth Jones." or something like that. But by saying "we won't trade him" (even if I think he's bluffing) it kind of soft implies you know he's not or are preparing for that.

Think about what signals confidence to most people out there, people other than us die-hards who armchair GM everything and obsess over long term value. Most fans, like most players, don't think much about the 2026 Blue Jackets. They just want Seth Jones on the team. Any thought of an impending rebuild or ulimatum is nothing but distressing. It's better to say "we're not doing that" rather than "i don't want to think about it" or "we can't discuss that". Dodgy answers don't signal confidence. I don't think it implies pessimism about Jones more than a non-answer would.
 
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flying v 604

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I don't agree in the slightest.

For all we know it might only take a few years. Ottawa had their big sell off two years ago and now they already have a team that is faster and more skilled than half their opponents. I think they could contend soon.

Zach is 24? [Edit: next year is his 24 yr old season] Prime age for D-men is often closer to 30, sometimes even after 30. I am pretty confident in Zach as a player, I think he is a #1D caliber player with or without Jones.

Now if you really want to tank hard for top picks in the next two years, you may have to sell off Z. (And Elvis). They're too good for that. But then you also risk pulling a Buffalo/Edmonton if you don't have a strong veteran core to help your new top picks.
The Sens are still at least 2 years from being decent and that's if they are lucky. They still lack a legit 1c a 1g etc. A true rebuild takes 5-7 year's before a team is usually ready to contend again. Judging any team by this abomination of a season is a bad idea.
 

majormajor

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The Sens are still at least 2 years from being decent and that's if they are lucky. They still lack a legit 1c a 1g etc. A true rebuild takes 5-7 year's before a team is usually ready to contend again. Judging any team by this abomination of a season is a bad idea.

Let's see

Stutzle
Batherson
Pinto
Norris
Tkachuk
Chabot
Brannstrom
Sanderson

They don't need any more good luck. They've had plenty. With even luck that's going to be a very good team in about two years. I can only dream that the Jackets could pull off a turnaround like that.
 
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koteka

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I didn't expect Jarmo to say anything else honestly. I don't believe him this time.

If you don’t cheat on your wife, you don’t announce that you don’t cheat on your wife. You just don’t do it. The guy that announces he doesn’t cheat on his wife is cheating on his wife.

Announcing we plan on keeping Jones without a contract is just posturing. We are not going to lose him for nothing.
 

Cyclones Rock

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Jun 12, 2008
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If you don’t cheat on your wife, you don’t announce that you don’t cheat on your wife. You just don’t do it. The guy that announces he doesn’t cheat on his wife is cheating on his wife.

Announcing we plan on keeping Jones without a contract is just posturing. We are not going to lose him for nothing.
First off, I don't cheat on my wife.

Second, I think that your post is spot on.
 

rotsbu

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Is there anything regarding Seth that Jarmo said, other than saying there's no ultimatum?

Saying that, by itself, isn't that telling to me. I'm not sure if this even qualifies as news, either regarding Seth's plans or Jarmo's.

- If Seth is interested in staying, Jarmo saying there is an ultimatum will create a public spectacle, with plenty of unwanted news stories about an impending trade. The team won't want a ton of speculation about an impending rebuild which would hurt the team's reputation, and they won't want extra public pressure on Seth.

- If Seth is not interested in staying, all the same speculation and pressure. Jarmo won't want the extra pressure to box him in and limit his trade options, he'd rather make news when he has deals to announce.

Edit: Has a team ever announced an ultimatum before the negotiation period begins? Does the league allow that sort of pre-negotiation posturing?

Good points. It also would seem unwise to let the rest of the league know you wouldn't keep an un-extended Jonesy around into the start of next season, as that would hurt your negotiating position in trade talks if you do know Jones doesn't want to stay. "Nah..we'll pass on that offer...happy to keep Jones on the ice here."
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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Seeing Jarmo's full quote that I believe @EspenK copied into the poll thread, I don't like that Jarmo said all of that. A quick "We're not trading Seth Jones" would have been a good public stance to take. Instead he's willing to delve deeper into the sad hypothetical, and even uses the words "bitter end". That's not the way I would do it.

It reminds me of a military officer in a battle who, rather than yelling "stand and fight for victory!", yells "not one step back!", "if we die, we die on this hill." I can see the military value of that approach, but not so much the team building value.


I don't know if he believes it. I also wonder if he wants Seth Jones to believe it.
 

CBJWerenski8

Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
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More grimish quotes from Jarmo

Artemi Panarin and Sergei Bobrovsky both balked at long-term extensions that offseason, with Panarin declining to negotiate at all, and both of them left July 1, 2019, along with rental forwards Matt Duchene and Ryan Dzingel.
The Blue Jackets didn’t get a thing in return, other than a memorable sweep of the Tampa Bay Lightning in the playoffs, so the question must now be asked: Can they afford to go down that route again?

“Well, we’re not doing that,” Kekalainen said Friday. “It all depends on where our team is at right now, but I’m not sure that I envision a similar situation for our team. It was very unique. It wasn’t just one player (in 2019). There were several players that were at the end of their contract.”

Wouldn’t it be easier if you told Seth and his agent (Pat Brisson) that you need to know an answer about a long-term deal before next season?
JK: “Those artificial deadlines … they never work.”
Why not?
JK: “Well, because it’s artificial. After I say, ‘I’ve got to know one way or the other,’ he could come back to me two days later and say, ‘You know what, I’ve changed my mind. I want to stay.’”
Unless you’ve already traded him …
JK (laughs): “That’s what I mean about ‘artificial deadline.’ It never works. If you make an ultimatum, then you have to follow through and say, ‘OK, unless you want to give me an answer by this time, then you’re going to be traded.’ But he’s the caliber of player and a core piece, both him and Zach — well, Zach’s a different situation because he’s got another year left (of restricted free agency) — but those are the core pieces of our team, where we’re going to do everything that we can to keep them.”

When you look back at the Panarin situation, were the offers you got for him better during the offseason prior to his final year than what you could’ve gotten at the trade deadline?
JK: “Not really. Everybody wanted to know if he was going to sign and he had his mind set on going to New York. The rental market (at the deadline) was all about futures and that’s why we kept him.”
Could that be different with Jones?
JK: “Yeah, I would think so. I don’t think Seth has his mind set on any one team, unless it’s the Blue Jackets, obviously.”

So, the Panarin situation was basically a no-win situation?
JK: “Yeah, so, teams that were interested in him knew there was a really good chance that he was going to be a rental and wanted to negotiate with him to see if he would sign with them, and then the price would’ve been different. Well, I didn’t want to get to that point, where he was negotiating with half the league and then still have to play for us if it didn’t work out.”

That’s not the case with Jones?
JK: “No. I think he likes it here. He’s just at the crossroads with his career. He wants to know that our team’s going in the right direction and that he can be part of us winning.”

Without revealing specifics, do you have a ballpark idea of what Seth will ask for?
JK: “Well, we have a pretty good idea of what the comparables are around the league. That’s what we do for a living. But before we get to the table with them, I really don’t know which direction they want to go.”

Blue Jackets GM Kekalainen talks Seth Jones, Zach Werenski, offseason
 
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majormajor

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That’s not the case with Jones?
JK: “No. I think he likes it here. He’s just at the crossroads with his career. He wants to know that our team’s going in the right direction and that he can be part of us winning.”

I find this somehow encouraging. Seth, like all of us, is waiting to see what Jarmo can do.

I see us most likely fitting into one of the preferred scenarios:
- Jarmo can make the team better, so Seth signs long term.
- Jarmo can't make the team better, so Seth commits to leaving and Jarmo knows he has to trade him.

The scenarios we don't want are the middle ones, where Jarmo thinks the team will be good and Seth doesn't.
 

KJ Dangler

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Oct 21, 2006
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I find this somehow encouraging. Seth, like all of us, is waiting to see what Jarmo can do.

I see us most likely fitting into one of the preferred scenarios:
- Jarmo can make the team better, so Seth signs long term.
- Jarmo can't make the team better, so Seth commits to leaving and Jarmo knows he has to trade him.

The scenarios we don't want are the middle ones, where Jarmo thinks the team will be good and Seth doesn't.
Which is all the more reason he moves heaven and earth to make this team better for next season , starting at the draft . Seths decision will most likely hinge on Jarmo making Jarmo moves.
 

majormajor

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I'd be relieved if they can get an answer soon and chart a course before getting to July 28th. That's not a good day to be indecisive on (see Vancouver last year).
 
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rotsbu

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I'd be relieved if they can get an answer soon and chart a course before getting to July 28th. That's not a good day to be indecisive on (see Vancouver last year).

Pardon the ignorance and laziness...but to put it in one place here, what are the various dates/deadlines that factor into resigning Jones and trying to improve the team:
1. Is there a date before which Jones and CBJ cannot ink a new deal?
2. Free agent signings can begin on ____
23 Draft is 23-24-July, correct? I'm not sure if I were Jones evaluating the team's outlook that I'd put much emphasis on the draft FWIW

I hope whatever the above dates/deadlines are, they don't lead to a game of chicken...e.g. Jarmo doesn't make his absolute best offer for one of the FA C's he's targeting because he doesn't know what Jones has decided...FA isn't acquired...Jones less like to recycle...downward cycle continues.
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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Pardon the ignorance and laziness...but to put it in one place here, what are the various dates/deadlines that factor into resigning Jones and trying to improve the team:
1. Is there a date before which Jones and CBJ cannot ink a new deal?
2. Free agent signings can begin on ____
23 Draft is 23-24-July, correct? I'm not sure if I were Jones evaluating the team's outlook that I'd put much emphasis on the draft FWIW

I hope whatever the above dates/deadlines are, they don't lead to a game of chicken...e.g. Jarmo doesn't make his absolute best offer for one of the FA C's he's targeting because he doesn't know what Jones has decided...FA isn't acquired...Jones less like to recycle...downward cycle continues.

July 28th, UFA day, is the first day Jones and Jarmo can put ink on paper, because it's one year prior to the end of Jones' current deal.

Yes you definitely want to have everything communicated before hand. Players want to come here if Jones is staying, and Jones wants to stay here if Jarmo brings in an upgrade or two. So Jones committing on signing if certain conditions are met allows Jarmo to make promises to UFAs, potentially handing it all in one day.

I believe Jarmo can start talking to UFAs in between the draft and July 28th. He can also make trades. Getting a Miller or a Hertl before the 28th would certainly signal to everyone that they're pushing forward.
 
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domi28

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Dec 5, 2017
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I'll add another key date: when Dougie Hamilton signs his next contract with whoever. Unless Jarmo knocks Jones' socks off with an offer I think Jones' agent talks him into at least waiting until Hamilton signs just to see a very recent comparable highly sought UFA dman contract.
 
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majormajor

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I'll add another key date: when Dougie Hamilton signs his next contract with whoever. Unless Jarmo knocks Jones' socks off with an offer I think Jones' agent talks him into at least waiting until Hamilton signs just to see a very recent comparable highly sought UFA dman contract.

Yeah, I don't know if that will work the way Brisson intends. Jarmo should take his Jones-bid and put an extra two million on it for Dougie. He's that much of an upgrade.
 

LetsGOJackets!!

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I hope it is us. Good lord, as a fan why do you want to see that money sitting in McConnell’s wallet rather than being used to put a very good player on their. One of the most annoying attributes of Columbus is that they would
rather pay mediocre money to mediocre players and then complain about why the team is mediocre.

EDM, is right on here. Seth is entering the 5-6 year period where his play will be at his peak.. those years have to be in Columbus. For fvcks sake, replace one of your 5M salaries with an entry level player if you must, but do not go cheap on this guy. Jones is not a luxury.
 
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