Line Combos: Sens True Depth Chart

Discussion in 'Ottawa Senators' started by SuperDuper101, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. delchief

    delchief Registered User

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    I'm using the player's entire career and body of work to make these determinations. Ryan has 4 30-goal seasons under his belt. He clearly has the skill-set of a top line winger. Stone is right there. He's arguably in that group and on most teams he would be a top-liner without question. He's just young and doesn't have a large sample size of work to draw from so thus my ranking. Also, Stone had a higher-than-average shooting % last year so I'd like to see his career progress a little further before instantly labeling him a top line winger. He is exceptional and I love the kid. I want him on this team forever. Just calling it like I see it. Sweet Jebus, guys, if you want to list Stone as a top liner feel free. I won't attack you for it..... :)
     
  2. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Salary is irrelevant to who is better. Keith makes $5.2 million and Karlsson makes $6.5 is everyone who is paid more better?

    Turris only makes $3.5 and Michalek makes $4... I guess MacArthur will be amazing this year due to his significant raise.
     
  3. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Stone is going to be a top 20 forward... Maybe player in the league next year. He was the entire second half of this season.

    The way he plays it is pretty obvious it isn't a fluke... He does everything the right way. He doesn't even really ever have a bad game either.

    Plus his skating has become entirely a non-issue... You don't lead the league in takeaways as a winger unless you have no problem whatsoever being where you need to be on the ice.... What he might do in a skills competition or a race is completely irrelevant... On the ice he is so intelligent that his skating is perfectly fine.

    Add in his clear intensity, excitement... Heck seeing his draft card... Career goals outside of hockey... Puts Non-Applicable.

    He is our new Alfie. That is what I see from his play this past season.
     
  4. delchief

    delchief Registered User

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    You're allowing your (completely understandable) emotion about the player to cloud your judgement. He's got a 60 + point season under his belt in his first full year and led the league in take-aways. Excellent, EXCELLENT signs. Just not a guaranteed, stone-cold-mortal-lock first line winger yet. But I wouldn't bet against him proving that he is by next season.

    Remember, even Alfie wasn't a first line winger for the first few seasons. He was on the second line at first. With Bonk and Arvedson and others, as I recall. Todd White was his center later on. Jeez, he really carried some of those teams..... especially post Yashin and pre-Spezza............
     
  5. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    He was in the top 5 in points in the league in the second half... While leading in takeaways and being on the PK and PP units.

    Stone might have been a rookie... Did not play like one...

    Also played far more minutes per game then Ryan did.

    Also... Alfredsson was far more then a 2nd liner on this team... From the start. Kane and Toews mostly play on different lines.. As did Sakic and Forsberg... Are one of each of them "2nd liners"?
     
  6. delchief

    delchief Registered User

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    Usually point production per 60 minutes (at even strength) is a good measure of who is a 1st/2nd liner. Kane and Toews are obviously first line players. They can produce on their own at elite levels all day long. How about a guy like Chris Kunitz? Away from Crosby does he produce at a top line level? Probably not.

    I admit that Stone's 64 points this season puts him in 1st line territory. I just want to see him do that for 1 or 2 more years before anointing him. That's all. Just need a larger sample size to truly get a measure of that player.
     
  7. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    I get that... About most rookies... Like say Hoffman. Heck about even Zibanejad who has more experience. Stone's game as the season wore on was that of a veteran... He looks like he is 30 and plays like it. He was the most consistent forward we had all season long... Despite having that strong second half.

    Even if he does not improve and plays exactly like he did last season... He is a first liner.

    Just my opinion. I would sign him to an 8 year deal. No problem. I am totally sold on him. Like I was about Karlsson, Alfie, Hossa early in their careers. I see no weaknesses in his game that matter. He is great at everything. Passing, Shooting, awareness, tenacity, physicality, consistency.

    After he was clearly injured in the playoffs he was still a very impactful player... Though he was clearly not healthy and not as good as he was healthy.
     
  8. WhiteLight*

    WhiteLight* Guest

    Michalek - Turris - Stone
    MacArthur - Zibanejad - Ryan
    Hoffman - Pageau - Lazar
    Greening - Smith - Chiasson
    Neil

    Methot - Karlsson
    Wiercioch - Ceci
    Cowen - Borowiecki
    Phillips - Wideman

    Anderson
    Hammond



    Cup contender?
     
  9. OmniSens

    OmniSens @OmniSenators

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    Nope, not a chance. Playoffs, maybe. Big maybe. Repeating last years amazing run won't happen every season.
     
  10. edguy

    edguy Registered User

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    No.. that left side is so mediocre..
     
  11. Benjamin

    Benjamin Differently Financed

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    We're a bubble team until something is done about the defense.
     
  12. WhiteLight*

    WhiteLight* Guest

    Ok.... how do we fix the problem? How does this team take the next step?

    Karlsson is 25.... let's get the ball rolling
     
  13. edguy

    edguy Registered User

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    Sign Sekera.
    sign Wideman
    package Wiercioch with Prince and picks for a top 6 guy

    Team fixed
     
  14. Upgrayedd

    Upgrayedd Earn'em and Burn'em

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    Sign a legit top 3/4 d man to bump everyone down a spot, certainly have to overpay here. Buy out Greening to open a spot for youth.

    Let the two elderly Chris' contracts expire at end of year or trade if possibility arises and boom were lean and mean!

    This is my dream lol
     
  15. senility

    senility Registered User

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    I was going to start a new thread before I saw this one, but I guess it really belongs here:

    At least this weekend has made a lot of things clearer. By moving out Lehner, Legwand, and Gryba, and sharing a lot in their media availability, Murray, Dorion, and company have managed to shed 3 NHL bodies and give us considerably more insight into their thinking about next year’s team.

    Even with those 3 gone, we are still looking at a full NHL roster going into free agency.

    NHL Forwards
    MacArthur Turris Stone
    Hoffman Zibanejad Ryan
    Michalek Pageau Lazar*
    Neil Smith Chiasson
    Greening

    Forwards named as having a realistic chance to be ready to play NHL games next year:
    Puempel, Prince, Paul, Schneider

    Other forward prospects:
    White, Gagne, Chlapik, Lindberg, Robinson, daCosta, Dzingel, McCormick, Eiserman, Shore, Dunn, Ahl, Perron, Baillargeon, Grant, Robinson, Kramer, Leblanc, Ewanyk, Dziurzynski, Guptill,

    NHL D
    Methot Karlsson
    Wiercioch Ceci*
    Cowen Boro
    Philips

    D named as having a realistic chance to play NHL games next year:
    Wideman, Wikstrand

    Other D prospects:
    Chabot, Englund, Harpur, Claesson, Sdao, Wolanin, Jaros, Gendron, Summers

    NHL Goalies
    Anderson
    Hammond

    Goalies named as having a realistic chance to play NHL games next year
    O’Connor

    Other goalie prospects:
    Hogberg, Dreidger, Daccord

    Looking Forward:

    A lot of problems will be solved next year when Philips and Neil retire (likely as Senators). I can’t honestly see Bryan Murray moving them or buying them out against their will, even if they are obvious targets. Not his style. Like it or not, I think they are viewed as legacy players and we’re stuck with them on the NHL roster, at least until the deadline.

    I also think the team plans to stand pat on D unless somebody knocks their socks off with an offer. Karlsson is untouchable. They love their local boys in Methot, Ceci, and Boro, so they pretty much are too, and they still believe that Cowen and/or Wiercioch can break out as a true top 4 and aren’t ready to cut ties with them yet. I think by this time next year, Philips will be gone and they’ll have a clearer idea of what we have in Cowen and Weircioch, and I think that is their plan, but I really wouldn't hold your breath for a move there. I think they've as much as said so.
    Don't disagree that adding a top 4 D is the fastest way to make the team better, but I kind of think they wait to see what they've got and try to make the final tweaks to elevate it to contender status next summer. Time will tell.

    Finally, I don’t realistically see any of the following forwards moving at this point based on what has been said about them/contract status, etc.: MacArthur, Turris, Stone, Zibanejad, Ryan, Pageau, and Lazar, although I suppose Lazar could spend some time in the AHL if they want to develop him there.

    Thus, in my view, really the only remaining questions left to be answered for next year’s NHL team are:

    1) How many of Condra, Puempel, Prince, Paul, and Schneider do they see as having a realistic chance of being NHL regulars on this team next year?
    2) Are they still planning to bring in another top six forward through free agency or trade?
    3)If they won’t buy out and can’t trade Greening, are they willing to trade one or more of Chiasson, Michalek, Hoffman, or Smith to make room for the new top 6 forward and/or for Condra and/or for one of the kids to step up and grab?

    I don’t have stage 4 cancer, so I am content to sit back and let Murray run his team his way in his final year as GM. He’s earned that I think. Nobody can be more eager to win than him and even though it frustrates me as an impatient fan, I do respect his loyalty to players who have bled a lot for this team.

    My prediction is that they trade nobody, let Condra walk, and let Puempel, Prince, and Paul battle for the final left wing spot in camp, but maybe they’ll surprise me.

    They may also kick tires on a UFA forward, like a Glencross or even a Vermette, who they see as an upgrade, but I’d be pretty surprised if they do more than kick tires in light of the budget situation.

    The only other move I could see is a trade involving Hoffman as the centrepiece if the contract situation gets really sticky, say Hoffman, Prince or another prospect, and a 2nd for what they think is a better top 6 left wing option than Hoffman, but I’d be pretty surprised at that too at this point. Not advocating it either, but they may decide to sell high on him for the right deal.
     
  16. TheNewEra

    TheNewEra Registered User

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    if we keep same style of play from last season then i definitely think we can,
    especially since i think that cowen will bounce back next season (go ahead kill me now haha), and if puempel and lazar get regular playing time i think they break out a bit too. i would make a few changes though

    Macarthur-Turris-Stone
    Puempel-Zibby-Ryan
    Hoffman-Lazar-Michalek
    Condra/Prince-Pageau-Chiasson
    Greening-Smith-Neil

    Methot-Karlsson
    Cowen-Ceci (to keep it at pmd with a more defensive guy)
    Wier-Boro
    Philly-Wideman

    Andy
    Hammond

    If we can trade 4 guys of the group above we are in a good situation and can potentially use those picks to acquire someone at the trade deadline

    Of the 4 guys that i want to be traded
    One of cowen/wier (prefer wier to sell high)
    Smith
    Greening
    One of chiasson/michalek

    And if we can somehow trade all 6 then we can try to get upgrades via FA
     
  17. Othello*

    Othello* Guest

    Something has to be done about our defence. With Lucic going to L.A that leaves Sekea to Free Agency. With us shedding contracts we can afford him.

    Wiercioch and Michalek are prime candidates too be traded. Murray stated that he wants Cowen on this team and Greening has negative value so he's staying here.

    Michalek --> 6th Arizona

    Wiercioch + 1st + Puemple for Skinner

    Neil to Stl for future considerations

    Sign Sekera 5 years x 6.65

    Skinner Turris Stone
    Hoffman Zibanejad Ryan
    MacArther Pageau Lazar
    Prince Smith Grant

    Sekera Karlsson
    Methot Ceci
    Cowen Wideman/Cleasson

    Anderson
    Hammond
     
  18. dkollidas

    dkollidas Registered User

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    Sabres fan comin in wondering if a Larsson/Wiercioch swap? Would Buffalo need to add? Larsson was almost a ppg player in a small sample size last year... He was playing 1st line min those games, so in Ottawa he won't get nearly those minutes/numbers, but he's a solid all around player and I think would be solid addition. Buffalo badly needs LHD like Wiercioch.
     
  19. TheNewEra

    TheNewEra Registered User

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    i would be willing to do a deal like that but we have way too many forwards as it is

    take greening with wier and its a done deal:nod:
     
  20. you would trade that much for Skinner??

    with that value we should be able to get a better piece, I like Skinner but not giving up that much at all
     
  21. dkollidas

    dkollidas Registered User

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    Greening has 2 yrs. left? We could take on that contract. We're in a position where we NEED to sign O'Reilly just to get over the cap floor, so Greening for a couple years is no biggie.
     
  22. well if we get at least a top 6 upgrade we might be able to ride it out until the trade deadline. If we can address our top 4 now landing a top 6 at the deadline should be easy. Right now we have

    Methot-Karlsson
    Wiercioch-Ceci
    Boro-Cowen

    our top pairing will have to carry us
     
  23. TheNewEra

    TheNewEra Registered User

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    wiercioch+greening for larsson

    thats perfectly fine by me, a lot of people are high on wiercioch but i rather sell high on him and it forces us to sign/trade for a defenceman which is someone who hopefully improves our defence
     
  24. ReginKarlssonLehner

    ReginKarlssonLehner Let's Win It All

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    We ain't gonna sniff the playoffs or become a legit playoff threat with:

    Michalek having a stable role in top 6

    and

    We don't get another D.

    Simple as that. Keep Milo in 4th line, re-sign Condra and keep that dynamic 3rd line.

    Hoffman-Zibanejad-Ryan
    MacArthur-Turris-Stone
    Condra-Pageau-Lazar
    Puempel-Smith-Michalek

    Much better.

    If we don't re-sign we will be a much worse team without him. Mark my words. Honestly the guy is so underrated.
     
  25. operasen

    operasen Registered User

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    Hoffman-Zibanejad-Ryan
    MacArthur-Turris-Stone
    Prince-Pageau-Michalek
    Puempel-Lazar-Condra
    Smith

    Greening, Chiasson, Neil - all need to go for picks next year
     

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