OT: Sens Lounge XCVII: "Zorf; 21 times!" Edition

[Mingus Dew]

Snagged a reservation at Carbone. Gonna be a delicious and very pricey night.

This city is great sometimes.

 

[DrEasy]

Seems to me that it makes more sense to tax personal income rather than corporate. Like MOGA was saying, corporations aren't people, and you want to encourage them to prosper and hire. But I'm all for taxing the rich as part of a solidarity and redistribution effort. The rich should also realize that a country is only as good as how their poorest live. Even from a rich person's perspective, what's the point of a country where they feel they have to barricade themselves in a gated community to isolate themselves from the rest? That's why I love countries like Sweden.

 

[PatrickEaves]

Seems to me that it makes more sense to tax personal income rather than corporate. Like MOGA was saying, corporations aren't people, and you want to encourage them to prosper and hire. But I'm all for taxing the rich as part of a solidarity and redistribution effort. The rich should also realize that a country is only as good as how their poorest live. Even from a rich person's perspective, what's the point of a country where they feel they have to barricade themselves in a gated community to isolate themselves from the rest? That's why I love countries like Sweden.

I think the thing is, it's actually impossible for any country to tax the super rich, because they have the funds and ability to move somewhere else, where they won't be taxed as heavily.

Even take your example of Sweden. Ingvar Kamprad, who founded IKEA, never gave much money in the form of taxes to Sweden, his home country. As soon as he became rich, he got the hell out of the country and moved to a tax haven.

 

[saskriders]

Snagged a reservation at Carbone. Gonna be a delicious and very pricey night.

This city is great sometimes.

What is that?

 

[DrEasy]

I think the thing is, it's actually impossible for any country to tax the super rich, because they have the funds and ability to move somewhere else, where they won't be taxed as heavily.

Even take your example of Sweden. Ingvar Kamprad, who founded IKEA, never gave much money in the form of taxes to Sweden, his home country. As soon as he became rich, he got the hell out of the country and moved to a tax haven.

There are also examples similar to yours of French singers who left the country to avoid taxes. But are those tax havens a great place to live in necessarily? I wonder how many rich people DON'T leave, simply because it's not worth keeping the money but living in some gated community.

I don't know, I'd rather live in Canada or Sweden.

 

[saskriders]

Regarding the carbon tax I think it is actually one of the best ways to fight climate change. Companies are incentivized to invest in and develop greener ways to produce and ship their products. And consumers are incentivized to choose greener alternatives (which in turn gives companies even more incetive for greener production).

 

[Micklebot]

There are also examples similar to yours of French singers who left the country to avoid taxes. But are those tax havens a great place to live in necessarily? I wonder how many rich people DON'T leave, simply because it's not worth keeping the money but living in some gated community.

I don't know, I'd rather live in Canada or Sweden.

I personally find it a bit bizarre. There comes a point when the difference in taxation has no impact on your quality of life. So, why would you try to avoid being taxed? I get companies that look to headquarter themselves in tax havens, but as an individual, not so much.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

I personally find it a bit bizarre. There comes a point when the difference in taxation has no impact on your quality of life. So, why would you try to avoid being taxed? I get companies that look to headquarter themselves in tax havens, but as an individual, not so much.

I'm with you. But people are greedy and some think every extra dollar is worth it! But it really doesn't make you any happier or give you a better quality of life. Sadly everyone wants what they see on social media and we compare ourselves to others way too much.

Heck even me with not purchasing a home and renting instead find myself comparing myself to others even though it actually is financially a better idea for what we need at this point.

 

[scallionjj11]

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I do believe Ontario has some of the lowest corporate taxes in North America. That's one of the things US politicians were bitching about regarding NAFTA. And remember, when you lower taxes for one group, you either have to raise taxes for someone else, or you lose government services. Less police/fire/paramedics, worse roads, bigger class sizes in school, etc. Most folks really don't get just how many government funded services we use on a daily basis, and how shitty life would be without them.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Trump just called your boy Trudeau weak at G7. The fight is on.

But in all serious I’m so embarrassed for my country (The US).

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Trump just called your boy Trudeau weak at G7. The fight is on.

But in all serious I’m so embarrassed for my country (The US).

It feels like the planet has become a WWE sketch. It's insane.

 

[saskriders]

 

[topshelf15]

Regarding the carbon tax I think it is actually one of the best ways to fight climate change. Companies are incentivized to invest in and develop greener ways to produce and ship their products. And consumers are incentivized to choose greener alternatives (which in turn gives companies even more incetive for greener production).

Meh,the carbon tax is nonsense..Funny how no one talks about open pit Lithium mines for the batteries that power electric cars,or how we are supposed to recharge them ...Windmills and solar farms ,wont cut it...So i guess we use more carbon ???This green war we seem to want to wage against ourselves seems to be nothing more than a rallying cry for another group that has something to gain,on the backs of the average joe

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Ontario, why you have to go and elect Trump north?

 

[Daffy]

I feel so bad for Frank Caliendo. Hilarious guy. Great impressions. But I saw a picture of him yesterday and kinda thought to myself, damn does he ever look like Harvey Weinstein..

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Meh,the carbon tax is nonsense..Funny how no one talks about open pit Lithium mines for the batteries that power electric cars,or how we are supposed to recharge them ...Windmills and solar farms ,wont cut it...So i guess we use more carbon ???This green war we seem to want to wage against ourselves seems to be nothing more than a rallying cry for another group that has something to gain,on the backs of the average joe

That's exactly it. The power still has to come from somewhere. According to my 2 minute internet research, hydro makes up for 58 percent of Canada's power generation. Which is higher than most nation's, but that still leaves 42 percent of it being generated through nuclear, natural gas, coal and a scattering of renewable energy plants.

So it doesn't make much of a difference if your car is being powered directly by fossil fuels, or they're burning them in a plant to pump the power into your house to charge your car.

The infrastructure needs to change. And I don't know what the answer is right now. Maybe more nuclear plants? Doesn't pump as much c02 into the atmosphere at least.

And we aren't even getting into the environmental impacts of lithium mining.

 

[maclean]

I personally find it a bit bizarre. There comes a point when the difference in taxation has no impact on your quality of life. So, why would you try to avoid being taxed? I get companies that look to headquarter themselves in tax havens, but as an individual, not so much.

And this is why you are not currently rich

 

[topshelf15]

That's exactly it. The power still has to come from somewhere. According to my 2 minute internet research, hydro makes up for 58 percent of Canada's power generation. Which is higher than most nation's, but that still leaves 42 percent of it being generated through nuclear, natural gas, coal and a scattering of renewable energy plants.

So it doesn't make much of a difference if your car is being powered directly by fossil fuels, or they're burning them in a plant to pump the power into your house to charge your car.

The infrastructure needs to change. And I don't know what the answer is right now. Maybe more nuclear plants? Doesn't pump as much c02 into the atmosphere at least.

And we aren't even getting into the environmental impacts of lithium mining.

The carbon tax ,just makes things more expensive for us....The multinational companies wont ever lose money ,they will just charge the cost of the carbon tax right back to us ,and the smile and tell everyone they are a proud green company..Look I dont want to seem like an orge,but this shift to actually being a green planet wont happen...Unless the biggest industrialised nations are actually committed to it ,and i cant seee that happening

 

[Caeldan]

That's exactly it. The power still has to come from somewhere. According to my 2 minute internet research, hydro makes up for 58 percent of Canada's power generation. Which is higher than most nation's, but that still leaves 42 percent of it being generated through nuclear, natural gas, coal and a scattering of renewable energy plants.

So it doesn't make much of a difference if your car is being powered directly by fossil fuels, or they're burning them in a plant to pump the power into your house to charge your car.

The infrastructure needs to change. And I don't know what the answer is right now. Maybe more nuclear plants? Doesn't pump as much c02 into the atmosphere at least.

And we aren't even getting into the environmental impacts of lithium mining.

Fun site to see where Ontario's power is coming from:
Gridwatch

 

[Langdon Alger]

De Niro at the Tony awards

“f*** Trump”

Yes indeed Bob, yes indeed.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The carbon tax ,just makes things more expensive for us....The multinational companies wont ever lose money ,they will just charge the cost of the carbon tax right back to us ,and the smile and tell everyone they are a proud green company..Look I dont want to seem like an orge,but this shift to actually being a green planet wont happen...Unless the biggest industrialised nations are actually committed to it ,and i cant seee that happening

Short term pain for long-term gain. It's not like this is the first time something like this has happened. There were government programs and subsidies to get infrastructure up and running to make the switch from horses to the internal combustion engine, too. And all expenses in a business are passed onto the consumer.

Let's be honest....we'll have to commit to going green sooner or later. It's not like we can whip out a magic wand and replenish all the fossil fuels we've used. Sooner or later, the supply is going to run out. Better to invest in alternates now, then to scramble at the last minute.

Unless some sort of global war or pandemic wipes out 80% of humanity, we're going to need to do something to keep our energy needs met long-term.

 

[maclean]

The carbon tax ,just makes things more expensive for us....The multinational companies wont ever lose money ,they will just charge the cost of the carbon tax right back to us ,and the smile and tell everyone they are a proud green company..Look I dont want to seem like an orge,but this shift to actually being a green planet wont happen...Unless the biggest industrialised nations are actually committed to it ,and i cant seee that happening

What do you think of the idea that more expensive electricity pushes people to save power more?

 

[Zorf]

What do you think of the idea that more expensive electricity pushes people to save power more?

I don't think it works like that. Gas prices keep going up and I don't know of anyone who is driving less because of it.

We're a bunch of softies who are used to living comfortable lives. You can say that you'll try to save power, but it probably won't last that long and then we`ll get used to the inflated prices, and once they feel normal they`ll increase the price again.

 

[topshelf15]

What do you think of the idea that more expensive electricity pushes people to save power more?

In a northern country charging more for power is almost criminal.