OT: Sens Lounge CIV - Keep your damned hands off the door edition

[L'Aveuglette]

I'm sure the chocolate bar industry would survive if I slipped one into my pocket and paid for one at the checkout, but I'm sure most would agree that is wrong.

If you're at a small convenience/grocery store, you're stealing directly from someone(has nothing to do with the manufacturing co.). If you see two movies instead of one at a cineplex(I assume this is where you'd be at), you're not even making a dent into the portfolio of some giant company's shareholders.

 

[saskriders]

If you're at a small convenience/grocery store, you're stealing directly from someone(has nothing to do with the manufacturing co.). If you see two movies instead of one at a cineplex(I assume this is where you'd be at), you're not even making a dent into the portfolio of some giant company's shareholders.

The scope of the consequences of your actions doesn't determine whether or not the actions were moral.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

The scope of the consequences of your actions doesn't determine whether or not the actions were moral.

My morals regarding this consist of not giving a **** about millionaires and billionaires. I encourage small business any chance I get.

 

[saskriders]

My morals regarding this consist of not giving a **** about millionaires and billionaires. I encourage small business any chance I get.

The size of someone's bank account is irrelevant to me outside of charity.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The scope of the consequences of your actions doesn't determine whether or not the actions were moral.

Everyone has their own moral compass. You’ll have to learn to accept that and not get hung up on it.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

The size of someone's bank account is irrelevant to me outside of charity.

That's fine. I believe wealth inequality is society's greatest enemy, so if someone wants to save a couple bucks at the expense of the rich I have no problem with it. Different strokes and all that.

 

[The Lewler]

My morals regarding this consist of not giving a **** about millionaires and billionaires. I encourage small business any chance I get.

That's... interesting.

 

[Que]

 

[coladin]

My wife is a huge fan of Celine Dion, so I went tonight. But man, can she sing. What a performer

 

[L'Aveuglette]

That's... interesting.

Thanks!

 

[saskriders]

I saw Joker and thought it was pretty good.

 

[maclean]

The scope of the consequences of your actions doesn't determine whether or not the actions were moral.

I am able to see the arguments people make about it not being a problem, but personally I just won't do it. I'm not going to judge someone else for theatre hopping, but my own moral code sees it as wrong, even if "no one gets hurt". You're going to find that everyone's got that line somewhere else, but I wouldn't worry about it, just do you and focus on being moral according to what you believe and own that while also accepting that not everyone else is going to see it in the same way. You don't have to convince your friend and your friend doesn't have to convince you, just say, I don't care to, I'm fine with just seeing one movie.

 

[maclean]

I can't see any instagram links. Is that because I use adblock or because I don't have an account?

Definitely don't have to have an account. I used to not be able to see any links (Twitter in particular) but now I can. For what it's worth, I use ublock

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

If you're at a small convenience/grocery store, you're stealing directly from someone(has nothing to do with the manufacturing co.). If you see two movies instead of one at a cineplex(I assume this is where you'd be at), you're not even making a dent into the portfolio of some giant company's shareholders.

There are still independent movie theaters out there, as well.

And there's always the chance the poor kid getting paid minimum wage ho failed to catch you (until the bigwigs see you on camera) could get into trouble because of your actions.

Now, I do get what you're saying about hitting the big corporations and not giving a damn about them. Problem is, the bigwigs at the top NEVER take the hit. The shit rolls downhill and lands on the folks barely making a living.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

There are still independent movie theaters out there, as well.

And there's always the chance the poor kid getting paid minimum wage ho failed to catch you (until the bigwigs see you on camera) could get into trouble because of your actions.

Now, I do get what you're saying about hitting the big corporations and not giving a damn about them. Problem is, the bigwigs at the top NEVER take the hit. The **** rolls downhill and lands on the folks barely making a living.

No major cineplex employee has ever been fired over not catching a theater-hopper.

 

[Micklebot]

If you're at a small convenience/grocery store, you're stealing directly from someone(has nothing to do with the manufacturing co.). If you see two movies instead of one at a cineplex(I assume this is where you'd be at), you're not even making a dent into the portfolio of some giant company's shareholders.

There's always going to be a degree of moral relativism in life, but I'm not sure I can get behind stealing from the rich to benefit solely yourself. At least Robin Hood redistributed his spoils to the poor rather than keep it all for himself.

Having said that, it's certainly easier for people to rationalize acts when there does not appear to be a harm to a tangible victim; whether it's pirating music online, insurance fraud, or watching a 2nd movie at the theatre, all seem like drops in a bucket.

If I were to pick pocket Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos and deprive him of the 20 dollars he had in his wallet, and force him to go through the inconvenience of cancelling credit cards and getting new ID cards, I doubt anyone would think twice before declaring it immoral regardless of the reality that $20 to them is less significant than the lost revenue a theatre would be deprived of should I sneak into a 2nd showing.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

To take this discussion in another direction, too, is your opposition to the rich due to the fact that they exploit people and workers to their own gain? Because if so, the argument could be made that you're doing the same and exploiting them to gain personally. Smaller stakes, but same intent.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

...

Having said that, it's certainly easier for people to rationalize acts when there does not appear to be a harm to a tangible victim; whether it's pirating music online, insurance fraud, or watching a 2nd movie at the theatre, all seem like drops in a bucket.

....

I think it has less to do with the "tangible victim" aspect, as much as when the thing that you are stealing is not a tangible, physical object. A digital copy of something is weightless and trivial to make, so for whatever reason our brains don't register downloading songs as stealing. But, 25 years ago when CDs were still a thing, very few people would be willing to steal a CD ... even if there was 0% chance of getting caught. Somehow our brains just view these things differently.

Insurance fraud is a real sticking point with me, as so often you hear of people doing it in every little way they can. But there is a tangible victim -- all of us, because it just translates to higher rates.

 

[Micklebot]

I think it has less to do with the "tangible victim" aspect, as much as when the thing that you are stealing is not a tangible, physical object. A digital copy of something is weightless and trivial to make, so for whatever reason our brains don't register downloading songs as stealing. But, 25 years ago when CDs were still a thing, very few people would be willing to steal a CD ... even if there was 0% chance of getting caught. Somehow our brains just view these things differently.

Insurance fraud is a real sticking point with me, as so often you hear of people doing it in every little way they can. But there is a tangible victim -- all of us, because it just translates to higher rates.

Good point about pirating a digital copy vs stealing a CD.

Downloading a copy doesn't deprive anybody of the use of anything, so there is really only harm caused if you would have otherwise paid for the download, or share it with others who would have paid for it had they not gotten it from you.

You could argue theatre hopping doesn't deprive anybody of anything, unless the theatre is packed and someone who paid for a ticket is left without a seat.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Getting dangerously close to...... POLITICAL DISCUSSION!

Quick, get Buffalol!! The only political talk allowed is right-wing because it isn't political, it is just common sense!

 

[Micklebot]

Anybody going to get Disney +?

My poor old PS3 is unlikely to support it, and while I heard Sony tv's will support it, mine might not because it uses linux not Android TV... I'll likely have to cast from another device for both my sets.

The launch programing list is ridiculous,

 

[Engineer]

Anybody going to get Disney +?

My poor old PS3 is unlikely to support it, and while I heard Sony tv's will support it, mine might not because it uses linux not Android TV... I'll likely have to cast from another device for both my sets.

The launch programing list is ridiculous,

My wifes family are Disney nuts, so I will be getting it by proxy.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Anybody going to get Disney +?

My poor old PS3 is unlikely to support it, and while I heard Sony tv's will support it, mine might not because it uses linux not Android TV... I'll likely have to cast from another device for both my sets.

The launch programing list is ridiculous,

Hard pass here. In a vacuum, I'd get it, but I resent the fact that our streaming options are being partitioned off to the point where we're paying $10 for Netflix, $10 for Amazon Prime, $10 for HBO, $10 for Hulu, now $10 for Disney... the whole appeal behind streaming platforms was convenience. People won't pirate if they're given a reasonable and legal way to consume the media. For me, this is starting to veer into unreasonable territory. I won't pirate, necessarily, but I have no interest in paying for another service.

 

[SPF6ty9]

Hard pass here. In a vacuum, I'd get it, but I resent the fact that our streaming options are being partitioned off to the point where we're paying $10 for Netflix, $10 for Amazon Prime, $10 for HBO, $10 for Hulu, now $10 for Disney... the whole appeal behind streaming platforms was convenience. People won't pirate if they're given a reasonable and legal way to consume the media. For me, this is starting to veer into unreasonable territory. I won't pirate, necessarily, but I have no interest in paying for another service.

This pretty much sums up my viewpoint. Pick one or two and go with it. Otherwise eventually we'll get to the point where cable is going to start looking reasonable.

I'm passing on Disney too, although my 5 year old self can't help but be tempted by things like Muppet Treasure Island and Darkwing Duck.

 

[Micklebot]

Hard pass here. In a vacuum, I'd get it, but I resent the fact that our streaming options are being partitioned off to the point where we're paying $10 for Netflix, $10 for Amazon Prime, $10 for HBO, $10 for Hulu, now $10 for Disney... the whole appeal behind streaming platforms was convenience. People won't pirate if they're given a reasonable and legal way to consume the media. For me, this is starting to veer into unreasonable territory. I won't pirate, necessarily, but I have no interest in paying for another service.

When I was growing up, cable was about 35 bucks plus a bit if you wanted to get the specialty movie networks. As time went on, cable bills exploded with all the different packages. I used to get a employee discount with Rogers back in the early 2000's where I'd get everything they offered for $50 with the exception of NHL ce'nter ice type stuff, the pre-discount price was about $300.

Point being, I'm ok with paying $10 a piece for 3 to 5 different services to get what I want, but the inconvenience of having to open the Prime video app, then the netflix app, then the Disney + app, ect makes it lose the appeal.

If I could open one integrated app on my tv to search and stream from all my subscribed services, that would be much better.