Speculation: Sens, Lebreton, and the NCC part II

[The Lewler]

I hate the stupid railings in the 300s at bell centre. So annoying.

My hatred started when I watched the world cup of hockey in 1996 at the bell centre and as a youngster it was hard to see around the dam railing.

 

[Tuna99]

If you're going to bring up the tarp, why not bring up the Bell Club or whatever it is behind the opposition's end? Or the multitude of other eating options that are not hot dogs.



Are you a structural engineer?



The CTC is better than the Bell Centre or the ACC. Legit.

I guess there’s enough people like you who love the CTC so much it’ll be full every night for another 10 years.

Who needs a new building if it’s in such great shape? It’s just a matter is perspective I guess.

 

[Masked]

I guess there’s enough people like you who love the CTC so much it’ll be full every night for another 10 years.

Who needs a new building if it’s in such great shape? It’s just a matter is perspective I guess.

Are you trying to make a point here or are you just being snarky because you've run out of ridiculous assertions to support your ignorant viewpoint?

 

[JD1]

I guess there’s enough people like you who love the CTC so much it’ll be full every night for another 10 years.

Who needs a new building if it’s in such great shape? It’s just a matter is perspective I guess.

it is a matter of perspective .... I don't normally tell people their opinions are wrong because they are entitled to them but in this instance you are wrong. The CTC is a fine building. it's just in Kanata. The one and only thing wrong with that building is its location. There are guys here posting link after link on the investments made in that facility ..... maybe you should read them.

 

[Tuna99]

it is a matter of perspective .... I don't normally tell people their opinions are wrong because they are entitled to them but in this instance you are wrong. The CTC is a fine building. it's just in Kanata. The one and only thing wrong with that building is its location. There are guys here posting link after link on the investments made in that facility ..... maybe you should read them.

great. then that settles that.

Are you trying to make a point here or are you just being snarky because you've run out of ridiculous assertions to support your ignorant viewpoint?

easy buckaroo, this is a matter of opinion. grab a coffee.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

In Montreal they literally spent about $100 million to provide a facelift, which is something that didn't happen in Ottawa.
Bell Centre to receive $100M facelift

I'd imagine some of the costs of building at Lebreton are a sunk costs if the team is going to be a going concern.

With their sights set on re-location to Lebreton Flats, you can't blame the Senators for not pouring 100s of millions of dollars into their current location.

But it's not like they've done nothing to upgrade the CTC over the past few years. They created Club Bell in 2015, which sold out before completion and tripled the revenue expected.

​

They also upgraded the food a beverage services back in 2015, did some long overdue improvements and repaving to the parking lots, and built a TSN broadcast center as well. All these improvements were in the neighbourhood of about 15 million dollars ........ and in long term should give them a ROI before the planned re-location.



News Release: Canadian Tire Centre transforms food and beverage experience for fans



Sens announce new renovations to Canadian Tire Centre | Ottawa Business Journal

 

[NorthCoast]

With their sights set on re-location to Lebreton Flats, you can't blame the Senators for not pouring 100s of millions of dollars into their current location.

But it's not like they've done nothing to upgrade the CTC over the past few years. They created Club Bell in 2015, which sold out before completion and tripled the revenue expected.

​

They also upgraded the food a beverage services back in 2015, did some long overdue improvements and repaving to the parking lots, and built a TSN broadcast center as well. All these improvements were in the neighbourhood of about 15 million dollars ........ and in long term should give them a ROI before the planned re-location.



News Release: Canadian Tire Centre transforms food and beverage experience for fans



Sens announce new renovations to Canadian Tire Centre | Ottawa Business Journal

Annual maintenance is 3-5 million, (Link 1) so really that's more like a 1 year 10-12 million dollar uplift...which was mostly club Bell...which was a negotiated part of the Bell sponsorship. (Link 2, doesn't explicitly say but the 2015 reno was surely what the 2014 agreement was referring to as part of the in arena branding)


So congrats on Bell for seeing the 30 mil per year value in the Ottawa fanbase, and good on the team for taking advantage of the opportunity.

However, it still needs to be pointed out that Club Bell was the biggest capital investment in the club since 1996 (Link 1) and it was paid for out of a sponsorship deal.

Senators reveal $15M upgrade to Canadian Tire Centre

https://www.bellmedia.ca/pr/press/bell-media-and-ottawa-senators/


Yes, still a building upgrade, but this is another example of the team only willing to "invest" when they already have the revenue to offset the investment.

Personally, I call that an expense.

 

[Wondercarrot]

I respectfully disagree. Just google the Landsdowne contractors not paid and it will make your skin crawl how that consortium screwed many many contractors for millions, causing bankruptcy and wiping out very big family business. They are as crooked as they come. If you are not familiar with, look it up. Disgusting and dishonest group. I would never partner with them.

Screwed by OSEG or Pomerleau?
Were the sub contractors/suppliers payments in dispute part of the prime contract making it Pomerleau’s responsibility or extra costs associated to OSEG?

Also did you just call Bill Shenkman, Roger Greenberg, and John Ruddy “crooked as they come...a dishonest and disgusting group” ?

rotflmao

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Club Bell is dope. They have black porcelain urinals.

 

[mysens]

Screwed by OSEG or Pomerleau?
Were the sub contractors/suppliers payments in dispute part of the prime contract making it Pomerleau’s responsibility or extra costs associated to OSEG?

Also did you just call Bill Shenkman, Roger Greenberg, and John Ruddy “crooked as they come...a dishonest and disgusting group” ?

rotflmao

I forgive you as you are clueless how that world works. Blame each other, pass on the blame, while the city of ottawa looks on. The OSEG and Pomerleau group made out like bandits by walking away from paying millions due.

 

[mysens]

Club Bell is dope. They have black porcelain urinals.

They certainly are beauties!

 

[CTC]

I honestly think the CTC is a fine building, many new food options(overpriced), more history and memorabilia in the concourse, club bell, fan deck, bacardi lounge, tsn broadcast booth, not a bad viewing seat in the place, lots of new HDTV's while you wait in line. Bathrooms seem to be the same as ever, parking hasn't seemed to change beyond paving but that is to be expected. Brighter lights, more pronounced logo's and sens images, new scoreboard.
I have no complaints about the CTC except where it is and how bad it can be trying to get back on the highway.
The in game entertainment and on ice product(this past season) is lacking though.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Yes, still a building upgrade, but this is another example of the team only willing to "invest" when they already have the revenue to offset the investment.

Most businesses will "invest" when there is due diligence done to show the ROI.

Building a new Arena, and re-locating to it, are not done in a blink of an eye. Studies have been done, and firm timeline has been established.

If you're only going to be in the old arena for another three or four seasons, there is no logical reason to "invest" along the same lines they did in Montreal, where the Arena is already downtown, with a metro station incorporated into it, and they have plans to remain there for decades.


So the original comparison ( I commented on) about the 100 million facelift the Bell Centre received a few years back, and the lack of a similar facelift in the CTC is unjustified, and was done as the daily
dump on the Senators, that some people feel obligated to do.

 

[NorthCoast]

I forgive you as you are clueless how that world works. Blame each other, pass on the blame, while the city of ottawa looks on. The OSEG and Pomerleau group made out like bandits by walking away from paying millions due.

Not saying its right, because it's pretty horrid for the sub-contractor that went bankrupt. But this seems to be mostly on Pomerleau. If you signed a fix price contract then you are playing with fire allowing sub-contractors to go over their budgets before getting approval for the extra charges in writing from OSEC.

Lifting Lansdowne's veil: Lawsuits tell story of escalating costs, unpaid bills, business failure

 

[Masked]

great. then that settles that.


easy buckaroo, this is a matter of opinion. grab a coffee.

i don't think you understand what an opinion is. Saying 'the food menus at the CTC have not changed in 25 years' is not an opinion. How the owner spells his last name is not an opinion.

 

[Upgrayedd]

My only issues with the building and they are very minor and wouldn't normally change my plans in anyways if I were to attend would be the location (a west ender but would prefer it downtown to make more of a night out of it both before and after) and the coldest water on the planet in the bathrooms...maybe just the men's? A few years back at a town hall they claimed they would be adding hot water to the woman's bathrooms but im not sure it ever happened

 

[topshelf15]

Meh, its a stadium ...Some are nicer, some are worse...I personally dont go to one to rave about the building

 

[Rand0m]

I'm not a fan of Melnyk but I don't think the actual CTC is really lacking anything (maybe except getting hot water to wash your hands without them freezing off).

Seats are comfy enough, there really aren't that many bad seats, there's a decent amount of food choices. The big problem is location followed by an owner actively alienating his entire fanbase.

 

[Masked]

I noticed today while driving by the CTC that the number of sponsors on the side of the building and the embankment along the Queenway is way down. The top of the building facing the Queensway used to be full of companies, now there's three on it.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

CTC is a fine arena if you ask me.

Granted I haven't been to a ton but almost everyone says it's a pretty solid venue in terms of hockey/sports.

 

[topshelf15]

I noticed today while driving by the CTC that the number of sponsors on the side of the building and the embankment along the Queenway is way down. The top of the building facing the Queensway used to be full of companies, now there's three on it.

Yep ,the building itself has nothing on it either...Except for the long term ad,s.there used to be tons of stuff plastered all over the side

 

[Fandlauer]

I noticed today while driving by the CTC that the number of sponsors on the side of the building and the embankment along the Queenway is way down. The top of the building facing the Queensway used to be full of companies, now there's three on it.

I know MBNA pulled out this summer and they've been a sponsor forever. It wouldn't surprise me if more corporate sponsors want to separate themselves from the craziness going on.

 

[harrisb]

I know MBNA pulled out this summer and they've been a sponsor forever. It wouldn't surprise me if more corporate sponsors want to separate themselves from the craziness going on.

That part of the building also looks like crap, needs to be resurfaced but we know that isn't happening

 

[GrantLemons]

CTC is a fine arena if you ask me.

Granted I haven't been to a ton but almost everyone says it's a pretty solid venue in terms of hockey/sports.

It's really not terrible that's for sure. The audio system is hot trash, though. I wouldn't doubt the speakers that hang from the rafters have been hanging there since 1996.

 

[Rand0m]

It's really not terrible that's for sure. The audio system is hot trash, though. I wouldn't doubt the speakers that hang from the rafters have been hanging there since 1996.

That's not necessarily a negative... I've been to arenas where I can hardly hear myself think and I can feel the bass deep into my guts.