Low Effort GDT Sens in Nashville - 1:30PM | TSN5 | Early Afternoon Bumpkin Bash Edition

[Micklebot]

I knew there were some holes to be addressed on the roster before the season started but damn I didn't think the holes were all the bottom 6 forwards and the bottom 3 dmen. We're getting so little out of the bottom half of the roster it's honestly incredible. The least productive "supporting" group in recent memory.

Also, that 4th line. Jesus Christ it's bad.

Part of it is the Norris injury moving Pinto up, but still, I expected more from Kelly and Watson, they both seem to have taken a step back from last year. Joseph too, he's had a rough start to the year.

 

[JD1]

Part of it is the Norris injury moving Pinto up, but still, I expected more from Kelly and Watson, they both seem to have taken a step back from last year. Joseph too, he's had a rough start to the year.

It's out of slot all over.

Pinto moved up. He's not ready to be a 2C. So we've got an inexperienced 2C. That created a hole at 3C. The 3rd line of Formenton Pinto and Joseph never materialized and Joseph has played the entire year without 3rd line caliber mates. I agree Watson has taken a backward step which isn't unexpected given his age. And then with Kelly, if Norris and Formenton are playing, how many games would you have seen Kelly? Probably none. 4th line of Motte, Kastelic and Watson with Brassard in and out looks way better than 35 games played from Kelly and Gambrell

 

[bashbros32]

It's out of slot all over.

Pinto moved up. He's not ready to be a 2C. So we've got an inexperienced 2C. That created a hole at 3C. The 3rd line of Formenton Pinto and Joseph never materialized and Joseph has played the entire year without 3rd line caliber mates. I agree Watson has taken a backward step which isn't unexpected given his age. And then with Kelly, if Norris and Formenton are playing, how many games would you have seen Kelly? Probably none. 4th line of Motte, Kastelic and Watson with Brassard in and out looks way better than 35 games played from Kelly and Gambrell

only thing I disagree with here is Motte on the 4th line.

Motte was brought in to be a Formenton replacement when it became clear he would not be joining the team in time for the season to start (now the entire season).

He was never intended to be a strictly 4th line player.

 

[JD1]

only thing I disagree with here is Motte on the 4th line.

Motte was brought in to be a Formenton replacement when it became clear he would not be joining the team in time for the season to start (now the entire season).

He was never intended to be a strictly 4th line player.

Maybe, but Motte isn't Formenton. Idk if we'd have Motte here if we had Formenton. But playing a 3rd line role is above slot for Motte

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Part of it is the Norris injury moving Pinto up, but still, I expected more from Kelly and Watson, they both seem to have taken a step back from last year. Joseph too, he's had a rough start to the year.

I’m think king Kelly is a guy who just looks good coming in in bit roles. Like we need energy so Kelly is going in and the ins and outs of the game aren’t such a big deal. His sole job is just tonforecheck like a hound and then get off the ice.

Maybe, but Motte isn't Formenton. Idk if we'd have Motte here if we had Formenton. But playing a 3rd line role is above slot for Motte

I think he actually looks good in a third line role. Ideally maybe yeah fourth line. But it’s not like the role is too much for him. He just has no finish. He definitely looked better when he was playing with both brassard and pinto

 

[BankStreetParade]

Kelly needs to be shot to the moon. Dude has provided nothing all year. Would love to see Crookshank get an opportunity on the 4th line instead.

What does this guy do to, effectively, have a locked down roster spot? It's honestly f***ing baffling.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I’m think king Kelly is a guy who just looks good coming in in bit roles. Like we need energy so Kelly is going in and the ins and outs of the game aren’t such a big deal. His sole job is just tonforecheck like a hound and then get off the ice.


I think he actually looks good in a third line role. Ideally maybe yeah fourth line. But it’s not like the role is too much for him. He just has no finish. He definitely looked better when he was playing with both brassard and pinto

He doesn't really do that though, does he? The 4th line is constantly trapped in the defensive zone, constantly out of sync in the offensive zone, always behind the play, always a step late to the puck. He had all the time in the world yesterday to clear the puck on the PK and instead he flips it softly in to the outstretched hand of the dman. Where is this guy's brain? You go hard out on the PK. Guys watching at home who've never played a minute of competitive hockey in their lives know that. It's unreal how bad he and the 4th line has been.

 

[JD1]

I’m think king Kelly is a guy who just looks good coming in in bit roles. Like we need energy so Kelly is going in and the ins and outs of the game aren’t such a big deal. His sole job is just tonforecheck like a hound and then get off the ice.


I think he actually looks good in a third line role. Ideally maybe yeah fourth line. But it’s not like the role is too much for him. He just has no finish. He definitely looked better when he was playing with both brassard and pinto

And the difference between a 3rd liner and a 4th liner may well be the finish. They look the same, but at the end of the year one guy has potted 14 goals and the other guy 6. Otherwise they're the same. It's the consistency of potting 10-20 versus <10 which often distinguishes 3rd from 4th liners

 

[Burrowsaurus]

He doesn't really do that though, does he? The 4th line is constantly trapped in the defensive zone, constantly out of sync in the offensive zone, always behind the play, always a step late to the puck. He had all the time in the world yesterday to clear the puck on the PK and instead he flips it softly in to the outstretched hand of the dman. Where is this guy's brain? You go hard out on the PK. Guys watching at home who've never played a minute of competitive hockey in their lives know that. It's unreal how bad he and the 4th line has been.

Yeah we agree.

I’m saying like he looks good as a 13th forward when he come in and only needs to provide energy. Like last year. When he’s full time there’s more to worry about.

And the difference between a 3rd liner and a 4th liner may well be the finish. They look the same, but at the end of the year one guy has potted 14 goals and the other guy 6. Otherwise they're the same. It's the consistency of potting 10-20 versus <10 which often distinguishes 3rd from 4th liners

I think a fully season with pinto and Joseph motte could get a few more for sure. Not 20. But but def 12-15. Those three had some chemistry

 

[dekem]

I'm always nervous in any situation where Chabot is in our defensive zone.

As good as he has been offensively since his return he is still an adventure in the dzone.

I’m always nervous in any situation where Chabot is on our bench with a stick in his hands.
As good as he has been offensively since his return he is still a danger on the bench.

 

[JD1]

Yeah we agree.

I’m saying like he looks good as a 13th forward when he come in and only needs to provide energy. Like last year. When he’s full time there’s more to worry about.


I think a fully season with pinto and Joseph motte could get a few more for sure. Not 20. But but def 12-15. Those three had some chemistry

I think the Norris injury all on its own derailed our season.

Prior to this season, Stuetzle had 40 or so games at centre. Pinto had 17 career games. You simply aren't going to the playoffs with 57 games played at centre for your top 2Cs.

Chemistry and slotting totally blown away when Norris got hurt.

 

[Larionov]

As an aside, I thought it was perfectly on brand for Duchene to take a dumb penalty that effectively killed his team's chance at a comeback. For his whole career that guy has teased you with his speed and skill, then comes up small when it really matters...

 

[Larionov]

I knew there were some holes to be addressed on the roster before the season started but damn I didn't think the holes were all the bottom 6 forwards and the bottom 3 dmen. We're getting so little out of the bottom half of the roster it's honestly incredible. The least productive "supporting" group in recent memory.

Also, that 4th line. Jesus Christ it's bad.

I thought that the fourth line and Kelly were better yesterday but your larger point is very valid - on the whole they have been horrible. The good teams get production out of their bottom six, and we simply haven't. It's a function of our paper thin depth up front - take Norris and Formenton out and suddenly our slotting is destroyed.

Motte and Watson are on expiring contracts, and Kelly is a replacement level player earning NHL minimum. We don't owe any of them much. (Unlike Joseph, who we have to play when healthy no matter how mediocre he looks because we just signed him to a long term deal.) We should be looking aggressively at upgrading that bottom six if we want to compete...

 

[Agent Zub]

What game was it that you watched?

You know what the difference is between a 3-2 hockey game and a 3-0, 29 save shutout? 2 soft goals under the left arm.

Your eye test appears to be not working. Perhaps a prescription change is needed? Go look at the advanced stats. Again, as in many games this year, we out everything'd them.

Soft goals kept Nashville in the game. Just like Dallas the other night. Soft goals.

I think we have different standards for good hockey.

 

[Micklebot]

I think we have different standards for good hockey.

Do you apply the same standard to both teams on the ice? Because it doesn't appear as so based on your comment.

 

[Sensatauro]

Can't like, so this is me liking your reply. Cheers

 

[Golden_Jet]

I think we have different standards for good hockey.

Ya one sees what they want to see, the other is a realist.

 

[Big Muddy]

I think the Norris injury all on its own derailed our season.

Sure, the Norris injury definitely hurt.

But, look at Boston. With Marchand, Grzelcyk and McAvoy out, they started the season strong & have kept rolling. The really good teams can survive injuries. At a minimum, they hang in there and keep the standings close enough until they get players back.

We just aren't there yet.

 

[JD1]

I think we have different standards for good hockey.

What I quoted you on was, and I'm paraphrasing, that our goaltending kept us in the game.

Yes, we appear to have different standards. Seems to be based on understanding the game

 

[Micklebot]

Sure, the Norris injury definitely hurt.

But, look at Boston. With Marchand, Grzelcyk and McAvoy out, they started the season strong & have kept rolling. The really good teams can survive injuries. At a minimum, they hang in there and keep the standings close enough until they get players back.

We just aren't there yet.

I mean, nobody thought we were a really good team already. We were aiming for being a bubble that would be in meaningful games as the season closed out,

Idk how Boston managed to survive it's injuries and still be leading the league or close to it the whole time, I'm thinking it's a bit unfair to use that as your standard for what good teams can do, lots of good teams over the years have had their seasons derailed by injury (Vegas just last year comes to mind).

 

[JD1]

Sure, the Norris injury definitely hurt.

But, look at Boston. With Marchand, Grzelcyk and McAvoy out, they started the season strong & have kept rolling. The really good teams can survive injuries. At a minimum, they hang in there and keep the standings close enough until they get players back.

We just aren't there yet.

I agree with you that we're not there yet.

Boston is an interesting reference. They're getting superb goaltending and have a lot of veterans that are used to winning. We're almost right with them 5 on 5 driving play. Their 5th in Corsi %, we're 7th. They're 3rd in expected goals %, we're 9th. We're the only team in the top 10 in expected goals % not currently in the playoffs and we're not even close. We're getting beyond small sample size too. Carrying the better of the play for as long as we have and our W-L record is an anomaly

The real question is what's causing the anomaly? We're 29th in shooting % 5 on 5. We're getting looks, scoring chances, high danger chances, but we're not scoring. Just DeBrincat alone pacing at low 40s would be another 7 or 8 goals. And our goalies have decent numbers but not great. We're giving up too many soft goals. I count 4 in the last 2 games and a lost point on Thursday

 

[Big Muddy]

I mean, nobody thought we were a really good team already. We were aiming for being a bubble that would be in meaningful games as the season closed out,

Idk how Boston managed to survive it's injuries and still be leading the league or close to it the whole time, I'm thinking it's a bit unfair to use that as your standard for what good teams can do, lots of good teams over the years have had their seasons derailed by injury (Vegas just last year comes to mind).

I wasn't trying to diminish the point that the Norris injury hurt us. It did. The players that got bumped up don't have a lot of NHL experience. I agree with that.

There's lots of variables when it comes to injuries such as which players, how many & how long.

But, I think this part of my post is still pretty valid: "At a minimum, they hang in there and keep the standings close enough until they get players back.". We aren't "hanging in" imho based on where we sit in the standings and the amount of games that we've lost.

Even if Norris and Zub are healthy all year, I just don't know how far we'd go. I think there's still some things that need to be improved like our defense in order for us to be an upper echelon team. JMHO.

 

[Big Muddy]

I agree with you that we're not there yet.

Boston is an interesting reference. They're getting superb goaltending and have a lot of veterans that are used to winning. We're almost right with them 5 on 5 driving play. Their 5th in Corsi %, we're 7th. They're 3rd in expected goals %, we're 9th. We're the only team in the top 10 in expected goals % not currently in the playoffs and we're not even close. We're getting beyond small sample size too. Carrying the better of the play for as long as we have and our W-L record is an anomaly

The real question is what's causing the anomaly? We're 29th in shooting % 5 on 5. We're getting looks, scoring chances, high danger chances, but we're not scoring. Just DeBrincat alone pacing at low 40s would be another 7 or 8 goals. And our goalies have decent numbers but not great. We're giving up too many soft goals. I count 4 in the last 2 games and a lost point on Thursday

I responded to Micklebot's post to add a little more detail. As I mentioned the Norris injury hurt and we don't have experienced center depth to step up. It's a lot for someone like Pinto to be a 2C and step up at this stage.

I do think given that our offensive metrics are pretty good, it points to team defense as the deficiency.

For some reason, we've had a lot of sloppy team D play, blown coverage, poor positioning, etc. This could be because of bad coaching perhaps & definitely poor execution on the part of our players. It could be some combination of both of those factors.

Our goaltenders have been letting in too many softies, so we find ourselves on the wrong side of the scoreboard trying to climb back in the game.

I think our blueline needs some bolstering as well. Even with Zub healthy, another good RD would really help.

The lack of Debrincat goal scoring has hurt. He hasn't played poorly, but does have a lot of PP apples that boost his numbers. With the amount we are paying him, and with what we gave up to acquire him, I just think we need more from him. Batherson has had an off year as well (looking better the last 2 games though).

And for some reason we tend to sleep walk in the first half of the 1st period most games. We have to claw our way back into games versus slanting the game in our favour.

 

[Wondercarrot]

only thing I disagree with here is Motte on the 4th line.

Motte was brought in to be a Formenton replacement when it became clear he would not be joining the team in time for the season to start (now the entire season).

He was never intended to be a strictly 4th line player.

He’s a temp 3rd line player who would excel as a guy who spends the majority of his time on the 4th line and killing penalties.
IMO that’s his ideal slotting.

He is nowhere near as good as Formenton.

 

[aragorn]

While it's a tough yr for fans Ottawa still has two rookies in Pinto & Sanderson who are showing they belong in the NHL & will only get better with this diversity. I consider both part of the core & think Pinto has 2nd line centre potential as he grows into his body & improves his skillset. Once again Ottawa got lucky with a later rd pick that should have been a 1st rd pick in Pinto & the same holds true for Batherson. They now need Greig, Ostapchuk &/or Boucher to come in & surprise everyone.