Proposal: Sens' highway to very fast rebuild

[topshelf15]

You really believe "Stone is one of the top 10 wingers in the game" and that he is worth the third OA pick? Does someone really have to come up with a list of 10 wingers in the NHL that are better than Stone?

Kane
Ovi
Kessel
Pastrnak
Marchand
Kucherov
Tarasenko
Rakell
Benn
Panarin
Forsberg
Pacioretty
Boeser
Gaudreau
Giroux
Voracek
Rantanen
Marner
Laine
Wheeler

So do Ottawa fans think Stone is in the top 10 of these wingers?

Last season I would say yes....

 

[Just Linda]

Did someone say fancy stats?

 

[The Ugly Truth]

Did someone say fancy stats?

And remember: this is with Couturier being ridden by the Flyers like a rented mule, playing against the best opposing players with limited support (crappy linemates) and also playing while seriously injured at least two years.

I can't stand the Flyers, but Couturier might just be the most underrated player in the league.

 

[The Ugly Truth]

Last season I would say yes....

Well I hope the cataract surgery is able to return your vision.

 

[topshelf15]

Well I hope the cataract surgery is able to return your vision.

If you are saying he isnt better than some on that list then ,its not me that needs help with my vision

 

[Just Linda]

And remember: this is with Couturier being ridden by the Flyers like a rented mule, playing against the best opposing players with limited support (crappy linemates) and also playing while seriously injured at least two years.

I can't stand the Flyers, but Couturier might just be the most underrated player in the league.

Yep. I love Stone but the numbers show that Courturier has faced tougher competition while playing largely with less effective teammates. Despite this, he still has managed to be a player where his team's offence increases when he is on the ice. Stone though is shown to be a better offensive player but appears to play a more sheltered role (not too significant but still notable)

 

[Skin Tape Session]

LMAO at “Sergachev+++”

right? still cant believe they got him for a playeer that wanted to be traded. Yzerman is satan.If Erik goes there its for barely anything

 

[The Ugly Truth]

If you are saying he isnt better than some on that list then ,its not me that needs help with my vision

My vision is fine. Please tell us all which 11 players on that list are that he's better than.

 

[topshelf15]

My vision is fine. Please tell us all which 11 players on that list are that he's better than.

Rakell,Boesner,Kessel,Patches are 4 I wouldnt move Stone for and would be very debateable...Giroux and Vorachek ,would be questionable for us to trade for

 

[The Ugly Truth]

Yep. I love Stone but the numbers show that Courturier has faced tougher competition while playing largely with less effective teammates. Despite this, he still has managed to be a player where his team's offence increases when he is on the ice. Stone though is shown to be a better offensive player but appears to play a more sheltered role (not too significant but still notable)

Thanks for posting this. Flyers fans can also speak to how Couturier played through some bad injuries (he and Wayne Simmonds are true warriors) and how bad the Flyers goaltending was in recent years.

I've been hoping since he got into the league that the Flyers would give him a chance on the top line instead of saddling him with overwhelming defensive responsibilities year after year with ZERO support.

I'm really not sure what to tell anyone who thinks Stone is a better player to have on a team than Couturier. Maybe watch a few Flyers games (ideally in person where you can focus on a single player and watch what they do on the ice throughout the shift). Given a choice of players at this stage in their careers I would probably choose Couturier over Bergeron if I was picking a team.

 

[topshelf15]

Thanks for posting this. Flyers fans can also speak to how Couturier played through some bad injuries (he and Wayne Simmonds are true warriors) and how bad the Flyers goaltending was in recent years.

I've been hoping since he got into the league that the Flyers would give him a chance on the top line instead of saddling him with overwhelming defensive responsibilities year after year with ZERO support.

I'm really not sure what to tell anyone who thinks Stone is a better player to have on a team than Couturier. Maybe watch a few Flyers games (ideally in person where you can focus on a single player and watch what they do on the ice throughout the shift). Given a choice of players at this stage in their careers I would probably choose Couturier over Bergeron if I was picking a team.

Ok this is your shared opinion ,which is fine ...But there would be just as many that would disagree which is also fine...No need to get into a shoving match over two players that will likely ever get traded for one another

 

[Just Linda]

Rakell,Boesner,Kessel,Patches are 4 I wouldnt move Stone for and would be very debateable...Giroux and Vorachek ,would be questionable for us to trade for

I would agree with this list for the most part. Patches is the only one who regularly has better adv stats than Stone with Giroux being the next closest at times and Boesner is young still so he can't be rated on the same scale but yeah, I would take Stone over any of these players pretty easily.

 

[The Ugly Truth]

Rakell,Boesner,Kessel,Patches are 4 I wouldnt move Stone for and would be very debateable...Giroux and Vorachek ,would be questionable for us to trade for

As a (former, pre-Bergevin) Habs fan I'll give you Pacioretty. But healthy Giroux is on a completely different level - higher - than Stone. As far as the others, all I'll say is spend some time watching them next year and still see if you still feel the same way about Stone.

 

[topshelf15]

I would agree with this list for the most part. Patches is the only one who regularly has better adv stats than Stone with Giroux being the next closest at times and Boesner is young still so he can't be rated on the same scale but yeah, I would take Stone over any of these players pretty easily.

Yeah players in the exact scale we have been talking about can be anywhere,and nowhere in one season...They are all pretty good,some are for sure better..Some arent....The bottom end of the top 10 to 20 is where Stone is ...

 

[topshelf15]

As a (former, pre-Bergevin) Habs fan I'll give you Pacioretty. But healthy Giroux is on a completely different level - higher - than Stone. As far as the others, all I'll say is spend some time watching them next year and still see if you still feel the same way about Stone.

5 years ago i would have never mentioned him,I only said as far as us trading him ,as Giroux is a bit older and has more miles on him ...Which is the only reason as to why ,ditto Vorachek..As far as the rest the exact same thing could be said of Stone whom was on pace for a 80 point season last year

 

[The Ugly Truth]

right? still cant believe they got him for a playeer that wanted to be traded. Yzerman is satan.If Erik goes there its for barely anything

Yzerman is God. And Bergevin is the village idiot. Ottawa fans should be worried, because Dorion doesn't appear to be too bright.

 

[CDN24]

You really believe "Stone is one of the top 10 wingers in the game" and that he is worth the third OA pick? Does someone really have to come up with a list of 10 wingers in the NHL that are better than Stone?

Kane
Ovi
Kessel
Pastrnak
Marchand
Kucherov
Tarasenko
Rakell
Benn
Panarin
Forsberg
Pacioretty
Boeser
Gaudreau
Giroux
Voracek
Rantanen
Marner
Laine
Wheeler

So do Ottawa fans think Stone is in the top 10 of these wingers?

Some other wingers better than or as good as Stone

Hall
Ehlers?
Gallagher
Arviidson
Radulov
Gourde
Zucker
maybe even JVR

 

[The Ugly Truth]

5 years ago i would have never mentioned him,I only said as far as us trading him ,as Giroux is a bit older and has more miles on him ...Which is the only reason as to why ,ditto Vorachek..As far as the rest the exact same thing could be said of Stone whom was on pace for a 80 point season last year

Got it.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Yzerman is God. And Bergevin is the village idiot. Ottawa fans should be worried, because Dorion doesn't appear to be too bright.

no he doesent. i feel bad for sens fans, as a alfredson hater they are getting their karma but this is too much imo

 

[Just Linda]

Some other wingers better than or as good as Stone

Hall
Ehlers?
Gallagher
Arviidson
Radulov
Gourde
Zucker
maybe even JVR

Tableau Public

JVR is a great comparable for Stone. Stone plays tougher competition w better teammates but everything else is super close. Its not too common you see players that matchup as well as those two.

 

[Just Linda]

Some other wingers better than or as good as Stone

Hall
Ehlers?
Gallagher
Arviidson
Radulov
Gourde
Zucker
maybe even JVR

Players I'd take ahead of Stone (not factoring age)
Gourde, Gallagher, Hall, Zucker

Players I wouldn't (not factoring age)
Radulov (maybe when he was younger), JVR, Arvidson, Ehlers

 

[The Ugly Truth]

Tableau Public

JVR is a great comparable for Stone. Stone plays tougher competition w better teammates but everything else is super close. Its not too common you see players that matchup as well as those two.

I would've expected that Stone would be significantly superior 5 on 5 compared to JVR.

 

[Dan Kelly]

Better make sure you do the Colorado deal first.

No way do they accept just Mark Stone for what could be the No. 1 Overall Pick.

i like the OP's idea here but if Colorado is in any way in line for the #1 overall next year, then in my opinion only a trade for Karlsson would have gotten the Sens that pick back, otherwise keep dreaming ! you potentially add a franchise player in Jack Hughes to an already in the playoffs this past year Colorado and they could be cup bound a whole lot faster than they thought they could !

 

[Just Linda]

I would've expected that Stone would be significantly superior 5 on 5 compared to JVR.

The stats may be skewed as far as JVR playing less minutes and playing against other team's lesser lines but he's done well for himself the last few years. Mark Stone is the better play imo but the gap isn't as huge as I would have thought either.

That being said, Stone is younger, faces better competition, and has a bit more room to fill in his defensive side whereas I expect to see 2 more years of JVR at this level before he starts his offensive decline (which based on style, should be slow assuming there's no major injuries)

 

[Skobel24]

But you have a chance to get someone even better.
I have to figure it's a top 3 pick. You should be able to get a Mark Stone with a top 3 pick.
Or much, much better.

And equally possible, someone much much worse.