GDT: Sens @ Habs | Pre-season finale | Sat. Sept. 28th 7PM

[TheDebater]

damn guys it’s just preseason

This season is going to be so fluid guys will be coming up and down to the nhl team depending on how they perform and develop

I wouldn’t look too much into anything. We are going to suck and most nights are gonna be hella boring. I guess we can just hope that some of these guys develop into legit top 6 forwards and look at the draft

If last night was a sign, then the games will definitely not be boring. I never start off a season, any season, with a tank mentality. I am only on board with "tanking" when the season is near its end and the Sens are realistically out of a playoff spot. At that point I can understand why losing games and ranking lower in the standings in order to receive a higher pick is the most beneficial outcome. However, from October-December/January, I will cheer this team on to win every game, because you just never know.

Now some might argue squeaking into the playoffs and losing in round 1 is pointless, but I can counter argue that tanking every season and still not having long term success is equally pointless, an example (up until this season at least) have been Edmonton, Arizona, Buffalo, Carolina who have all drafted top 10 multiple times the past approximately 5 years and without denying their talent pool have not translated it well on the ice, yet.

 

[Xspyrit]

I'm not a natural tanker and I will still cheer for the Sens to score and win but I am expecting a bottom-5 finish and won't be mad at all. Actually, the opportunity is way too good to not draft very high in June, this draft is way too good and it will allow this team (as long as the owner don't intervene again) to avoid a long rebuild. The Sens also have the Sharks 1st and several 2nd round picks. Imagine adding a Lafreniere/Byfield/Raymond and other quality prospects to the current wealth of young players. The opportunity is definitely there to reach contender status in a few years, have to give the youngsters a bit of time though.

This is a developmental year for our young players, that's all we should care about, we want to see them progress.

 

[Daffy]

You can literally say the exact same thing about most teams drafting in the later half of drafts.

2011- 6th Overall: Zibanejad, 21- Noesen, 24 Puempel
2012- 15th Overall: Ceci
2013- 17th Overall: Lazar
2015- 18th Overall: Chabot, 21st Overall: White
2016- 11th Overall: Brown
2017- 28th Overall: Bowers
2018- 4th Overall: Tkachuk, 26th Overall: JBD
2019: 19th Overall: Thomson

It appears to me that most of our “questionable” picks came in the 2nd half of the round, where most players have some question marks in their game.

We've hit on Tkachuk and Chabot. And to a lesser extent White. Although I'm not convinced he's every going to be a go to offensive guy.

 

[Alex1234]

Going on the 3rd year as worst NHL team (or 2nd worst) and not foreseeing any improvement next year

4 consecutive last place lol

Way to go Pierre

 

[Senscore]

Going on the 3rd year as worst NHL team (or 2nd worst) and not foreseeing any improvement next year

4 consecutive last place lol

Way to go Pierre

I swear to God if we end up with 4th pick this year despite finishing last.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I swear to God if we end up with 4th pick this year despite finishing last.

Getting first overall when you finish last is still a long shot, 18.5% odds aren't great.

We got pushed back twice in a row so I fully expect it to happen again. If the Devils move up again though

 

[Que]

You know we can have our cake and eat it too, right?

Root for the Sens to win the cup and the Sharks to win the lottery

 

[Senscore]

Getting first overall when you finish last is still a long shot, 18.5% odds aren't great.

We got pushed back twice in a row so I fully expect it to happen again. If the Devils move up again though

The system was broken so the NHL decided to break it the other way.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

You know we can have our cake and eat it too, right?

Root for the Sens to win the cup and the Sharks to win the lottery

Or we get first and second overall in the draft!

 

[TheDebater]

The system was broken so the NHL decided to break it the other way.

Actually the reason this new system was implemented was to avoid the embarrassment of teams giving up on the season just to get a higher pick. By showing the league that finishing last does not guarantee you pick 1st, it allows teams to play to win because finishing 3rd or 4th last could mean picking 1st overall. In fact, if I were the commissioner I would flip the odds so that finishing 26th gives you the best odds at drafting 1st overall, 27th gives you second best odds, 28th gives you third best etc. The reasoning for this is it forces teams to keep playing and trying to win down the stretch to finish higher. It still allows the bottom 5 teams to have the best odds, only difference is it creates competition where finishing higher is more rewarding than finishing last.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The system was broken so the NHL decided to break it the other way.

I blame:

The Oilers for being so bad that they couldn't use all those high picks to turn things around and making the whole thing look silly

Tim Murray for being so open about his tanking (and ruining his locker room) that it forced the League's hand on changing the rules.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Actually the reason this new system was implemented was to avoid the embarrassment of teams giving up on the season just to get a higher pick. By showing the league that finishing last does not guarantee you pick 1st, it allows teams to play to win because finishing 3rd or 4th last could mean picking 1st overall. In fact, if I were the commissioner I would flip the odds so that finishing 26th gives you the best odds at drafting 1st overall, 27th gives you second best odds, 28th gives you third best etc. The reasoning for this is it forces teams to keep playing and trying to win down the stretch to finish higher. It still allows the bottom 5 teams to have the best odds, only difference is it creates competition where finishing higher is more rewarding than finishing last.

Something to be said about some exec who has never played the game actively working against his team. The players are humans and have short careers, bred to compete; throwing away one of their years to tank is not ok.

 

[Senscore]

I blame:

The Oilers for being so bad that they couldn't use all those high picks to turn things around and making the whole thing look silly

Tim Murray for being so open about his tanking (and ruining his locker room) that it forced the League's hand on changing the rules.

The problem now is it really doesn't take into account the teams that desperately need talent. Especially when so many of them are in markets or financial situations where they can't buy it either.

Given the importance of star players in league marketing and marketing within franchise localities, missing out on players like those is a huge problem for franchises struggling to get by. Both in terms of earnings and on ice success (which are connected in many ways as it is).

I mean, does anyone believe Toronto would have rebounded like they did had they drafted Puljujarvi or Dubois instead of Matthews? A couple spots can make a massive difference at the top.

 

[TheDebater]

Ideally gentlemen/women, we should not even be in a situation to care or give a damn about the draft lottery. Good teams, consistent teams are focused on making the playoffs and winning the cup, not worrying about which odds gives them the best position to draft a player that may or may not turn the franchise around (McDavid anyone?). I think the system will always be disappointing to the fanbase that does not win the lottery and draft in the top 2, and those who win the lottery will love it. You simply cannot please everyone when it comes to the draft and the only way to avoid this non-sense is to simply make smart moves, develop well, hire a proper scouting team and get the team out of the damn basement.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The problem now is it really doesn't take into account the teams that desperately need talent. Especially when so many of them are in markets or financial situations where they can't buy it either.

Given the importance of star players in league marketing and marketing within franchise localities, missing out on players like those is a huge problem for franchises struggling to get by. Both in terms of earnings and on ice success (which are connected in many ways as it is).

I mean, does anyone believe Toronto would have rebounded like they did had they drafted Puljujarvi or Dubois instead of Matthews? A couple spots can make a massive difference at the top.

Toronto was never not going to draft first overall after finishing last

 

[Wallet Inspector]

All the NHL needed to do was implement a rule that makes it so you can't win 1st overall more than once in a 3 year span or something.

Changing the lottery system so that last place has a greater chance of picking 4th than picking in the top 3 was incredibly moronic.

 

[Viletho]

My wish for this tank year is to have all the players play very well but our goalie always let that one goal they shouldn't.

We get 1stvour 2nd overall we draft Lafreniere or Byfield and next year we have Hogberg who solidify the #1 goalie spot.

That's my wish. Which i know won't happen.

 

[Alex1234]

My wish for this tank year is to have all the players play very well but our goalie always let that one goal they shouldn't.

We get 1stvour 2nd overall we draft Lafreniere or Byfield and next year we have Hogberg who solidify the #1 goalie spot.

That's my wish. Which i know won't happen.

Even with Byfield (who will be elite in 2-3 years at the soonest) we are at least 4-5 years away from competing

We need Byfield and Räty or Clarke back to back ainef

 

[DrEasy]

The fairest draft system IMO would be to give 1st overall to the highest ranked team that missed the playoffs, and proceed in that order until you run out of teams that missed the playoffs. For the teams that did make the playoffs you keep the system as it is.

This way all teams compete till the end to make it to the playoffs, and the ones that got really close have a well-deserved consolation price. The really bad teams already got their consolation prize by getting future assets at the trade deadline.

 

[Ice-Tray]

The fairest draft system IMO would be to give 1st overall to the highest ranked team that missed the playoffs, and proceed in that order until you run out of teams that missed the playoffs. For the teams that did make the playoffs you keep the system as it is.

This way all teams compete till the end to make it to the playoffs, and the ones that got really close have a well-deserved consolation price. The really bad teams already got their consolation prize by getting future assets at the trade deadline.

that’s not really very fair at all though. The bottom teams would remain at the bottom because they don’t have much to trade for anything good at the deadline, and would be destined to toil at the bottom indefinitely by picking mid round over and over again.

also, tanking would be even easier and way more prevalent for the middle 10 teams. Bubble teams would be competing for first over all pick instead of the wildcard. 9th place would have way more value than 8th place.

the lottery is a fine idea, except it should only involve like the bottom 5 teams. Edmonton sucking endlessly is an outlier, most teams haven’t had that many high picks and still sucked year in and year out. Pit and Chicago are more what it should/could look like in an ideal situation; a bunch of high picks lead to a good cycle of being good.

 

[pzeeman]

that’s not really very fair at all though. The bottom teams would remain at the bottom because they don’t have much to trade for anything good at the deadline, and would be destined to toil at the bottom indefinitely by picking mid round over and over again.

also, tanking would be even easier and way more prevalent for the middle 10 teams. Bubble teams would be competing for first over all pick instead of the wildcard. 9th place would have way more value than 8th place.

the lottery is a fine idea, except it should only involve like the bottom 5 teams. Edmonton sucking endlessly is an outlier, most teams haven’t had that many high picks and still sucked year in and year out. Pit and Chicago are more what it should/could look like in an ideal situation; a bunch of high picks lead to a good cycle of being good.

I think it was Lee who I heard this idea from:

Draft Position Determined by Wins After Elimination.

Discuss.

 

[BonkTastic]

I think it was Lee who I heard this idea from:

Draft Position Determined by Wins After Elimination.

Discuss.

Hurts teams that legitimately need high picks to improve, which enables a cycle of bad teams never getting better.

Also - heavily favours good teams that just have bad years or go through irregular injury issues.

Also- creates scenario where good-but-not-great teams can "tank" until they're eliminated to get high picks, then turn on the Jets and easily beat the legitimately bad teams.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

I think this is the first year since like 2000 I am not going to get a CI/Gamecenter package (which is how I watch the Ottawa Senators).

I could always change my mind of course, but I just feel like I don't really care enough to fork over the money to watch not just the Sens, but NHL hockey in general.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Hurts teams that legitimately need high picks to improve, which enables a cycle of bad teams never getting better.

I don't pretend to be well-versed in this, but the counter I've heard to this point is that the truly bad teams are typically among the first eliminated, which gives them more runway than middle-ground teams to accumulate points. It doesn't seem close to a perfect system, but any system that actively encourages fans to cheer against their teams, like the one we've got now, seems a bit more broken to me.

 

[tardigrade81]

I'm not a natural tanker and I will still cheer for the Sens to score and win but I am expecting a bottom-5 finish and won't be mad at all. Actually, the opportunity is way too good to not draft very high in June, this draft is way too good and it will allow this team (as long as the owner don't intervene again) to avoid a long rebuild. The Sens also have the Sharks 1st and several 2nd round picks. Imagine adding a Lafreniere/Byfield/Raymond and other quality prospects to the current wealth of young players. The opportunity is definitely there to reach contender status in a few years, have to give the youngsters a bit of time though.

This is a developmental year for our young players, that's all we should care about, we want to see them progress.

If it helps the future I’m all for it. But I agree I can’t ever root for us to fail. If we can even squeeze into the playoffs and get an upset I’m all for it. Doubt it will happen; but crazier things have happened.

And if we finish near the bottom and get a good pick I’m fine with that too.