Senators will submit bid for Lebreton Flats

[kilroy]

I doubt we'll see anything like plans and such for many many months. NCC tends to move glacially in these kinds of things (50 YEARS spent developing Lebreton Flats, and still waiting). It's also an RFI/RFP which usually doesn't contain specific plans and blueprints. There MIGHT be a mock-up, but will be very far from an accurate indication of what might happen.

Also, am I the only one that thinks putting the Arena in Lebreton actually makes it much worse for anyone west of the Flats? Nepean and Kanatites now will have to transfer three times to get to the arena, assuming they use local buses to get to the transitway, and do the same thing on the way back with the thousands of others fans. Plus, since the LRT wasn't designed with the arena in mind, there's no place near Lebreton for the city to queue up trains and pick up the large exodus of fans at the end of the game, there's no rail siding or rail yard anywhere near there. The Tunney's station is merely a terminus with a turn around, and no area for extra trains. Getting home from the arena WILL be a nightmare.

Unless: The western LRT extension is actually built and changes around lebreton station are made, like rail sidings for the extra trains needed during events.

 

[StittsvilleJames]

I never thought about the ultramar. We can't move the stadium now. How will the ultramar survive?

Nobody EVER thinks of the Ultramar! Please, think of the Ultramar!

 

[Canadian Time]

I'm curious to know:

1) who else will be submitting bids for the land - potential arguments for alternate uses for Lebreton site
2) if the Sens have pre-researched building partners & financial backing, and the extent of private help in this regard
3) The price tag on a new arena, and if Melnyk's idea of a "world class site" mesh with the city and the NCC's idea of a "world class site". The bare minimum on an arena (building only, excluding land value) seems to be $350mil, which is what the new arena in Vegas is projected to cost. Prudential Center cost $375mil (building only). The new arena in Edmonton is currently projected at $480mil (building only),
4) How much capital Melnyk intends to contribute vs how much ownership of the arena he expects to retain once a potential arena is built
5) The cost of what a new arena will mean for both Sens fans (ticket holders) and tax payers (in the event a public tax is raised to pay for part of the construction).
6) If the land is to be leased, how much is the lease, how long is the lease term and what happens at the end of the lease period? Is this a negotiable variable, or are we going into this on the NCC's terms?

You're focusing only on the team and the stadium. If Melnyk pulls in investors, this project could be much grander. The stadium could be the centrepiece, but it could also include high-end real estate, offices, shopping and who knows, maybe a casino. It's the type of project the city could use and mega projects can no longer be done by government, let private industry go at it, lots of money for everyone.

This type of project would blow away any single-use bid like an aquarium or museum. Getting investors for a multi-use venue would be a piece of cake too.

 

[jbeck5]

I doubt we'll see anything like plans and such for many many months. NCC tends to move glacially in these kinds of things (50 YEARS spent developing Lebreton Flats, and still waiting). It's also an RFI/RFP which usually doesn't contain specific plans and blueprints. There MIGHT be a mock-up, but will be very far from an accurate indication of what might happen.

Also, am I the only one that thinks putting the Arena in Lebreton actually makes it much worse for anyone west of the Flats? Nepean and Kanatites now will have to transfer three times to get to the arena, assuming they use local buses to get to the transitway, and do the same thing on the way back with the thousands of others fans. Plus, since the LRT wasn't designed with the arena in mind, there's no place near Lebreton for the city to queue up trains and pick up the large exodus of fans at the end of the game, there's no rail siding or rail yard anywhere near there. The Tunney's station is merely a terminus with a turn around, and no area for extra trains. Getting home from the arena WILL be a nightmare.

Unless: The western LRT extension is actually built and changes around lebreton station are made, like rail sidings for the extra trains needed during events.

Why would it be harder to get to western downtown arena from the west end than the east end? I think the word you're looking for is "even" or "equal" which is the point of this arena. So its relatively the same accessibility for every end of the city.

Edit: kanata north can take the 93 right to lebreton. Stittsville/kanata can take the 96 right to lebreton.
Nepean can take the 97 right to lebreton.

North Orleans can take the 95 to lebreton.
South orleans(avalon) can take the 94 to lebreton.

Why is it harder for the west enders then the east enders again?

Remember lebreton is west downtown.

 

[jbeck5]

The best thing about this is if you currently bus to the game, you gotta rush out to catch a *special* bus and if you miss it you're stuck in the middle of nowhere.

Now you will have several buses going in every direction every 5-10 minutes. You can leave right away, go out for 30 minutes, or 2 hours and you don't have to worry because the next bus is minutes away to bring you to your neighborhood or local park and ride.

 

[danishh]

You're focusing only on the team and the stadium. If Melnyk pulls in investors, this project could be much grander. The stadium could be the centrepiece, but it could also include high-end real estate, offices, shopping and who knows, maybe a casino. It's the type of project the city could use and mega projects can no longer be done by government, let private industry go at it, lots of money for everyone.

This type of project would blow away any single-use bid like an aquarium or museum. Getting investors for a multi-use venue would be a piece of cake too.

yeah, what this guy said. Think the OSEG-Landsdowne deal x10. This is going to be a massive project.



@jbeck, you seem to have forgotten about LRT and LRT phase 2. It's highly likely kanataites and barrhavenites will have to transfer at bayshore/baseline. That said dont be surprised if the sens/OC transpo offer free park-n-ride at those two locations since the bayshore and algonquin lots shouldnt be overloaded at game times and OSEG does something similar for landsdowne.

@kilroy, phase 2 will be funded in the upcoming federal election and construction will start ~2018. Any arena plans assume phase 2 is done before the arena is even starting to build. And yes, there is already plans for sidings in the lebreton area for rapid unloading of events like canada day, bluesfest, remembrance day, etc.

 

[starling]

Building a state of the art arena at Lebreton Flats would've been amazing for the City and the Sens obviously.
But to be honest, I don't think they are bringing in a realistic proposal. Not making a bid would've been a PR disaster, so they'll probably ask for way more money from the City than the City could afford and just let this project die queitly.

 

[Tap on the Ankle]

I never thought about the ultramar. We can't move the stadium now. How will the ultramar survive?

It's okay, I've started a group called Friends of Ultramar

 

[StittsvilleJames]

Building a state of the art arena at Lebreton Flats would've been amazing for the City and the Sens obviously.
But to be honest, I don't think they are bringing in a realistic proposal. Not making a bid would've been a PR disaster, so they'll probably ask for way more money from the City than the City could afford and just let this project die queitly.

Yes. This is the most likely explanation.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Wasting everyone's time is always the most likely explanation

 

[kilroy]

Why would it be harder to get to western downtown arena from the west end than the east end? I think the word you're looking for is "even" or "equal" which is the point of this arena. So its relatively the same accessibility for every end of the city.

Edit: kanata north can take the 93 right to lebreton. Stittsville/kanata can take the 96 right to lebreton.
Nepean can take the 97 right to lebreton.

North Orleans can take the 95 to lebreton.
South orleans(avalon) can take the 94 to lebreton.

Why is it harder for the west enders then the east enders again?

Remember lebreton is west downtown.

Check the LRT plan. NONE of those routes will go to Lebreton once LRT is finished. They'll stop at Tunney's and a transfer to the train will be needed. So, there's going to be two bottlenecks for western commuters. One at Lebreton, the other at Tunney's. At least if the LRT stays in the form it currently is. Either that or special routes will be needed to run people to the arena on game days. So, once again, there's possibly multiple transfers required.

 

[DylanSensFan]

This. Melnyk should spend some ****ing money on players instead of a rink.

yes, brilliant argument . Especially after the fact I posted a video of Melnyk specifically saying why he is not spending right now?

 

[kilroy]

yeah, what this guy said. Think the OSEG-Landsdowne deal x10. This is going to be a massive project.



@jbeck, you seem to have forgotten about LRT and LRT phase 2. It's highly likely kanataites and barrhavenites will have to transfer at bayshore/baseline. That said dont be surprised if the sens/OC transpo offer free park-n-ride at those two locations since the bayshore and algonquin lots shouldnt be overloaded at game times and OSEG does something similar for landsdowne.

@kilroy, phase 2 will be funded in the upcoming federal election and construction will start ~2018. Any arena plans assume phase 2 is done before the arena is even starting to build. And yes, there is already plans for sidings in the lebreton area for rapid unloading of events like canada day, bluesfest, remembrance day, etc.

That's a HUGE assumption, especially since there's absolutely NO agreed route for LRT 2 west of Westboro. Remember, the NCC killed the last proposed routing and everything's in limbo now. How can funding be granted when there's no agreed plan and therefore no agreed costs. If it gets funded in the next election it'll be a vote-buying "promise" and I don't really think those are worth banking on.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Check the LRT plan. NONE of those routes will go to Lebreton once LRT is finished. They'll stop at Tunney's and a transfer to the train will be needed. So, there's going to be two bottlenecks for western commuters. One at Lebreton, the other at Tunney's. At least if the LRT stays in the form it currently is. Either that or special routes will be needed to run people to the arena on game days. So, once again, there's possibly multiple transfers required.

Multiple transfers?!

 

[StefanW]

Hard to get too excited without seeing the proposal, as well as the alternate proposals for the site. I can definitely see this getting huge, which means it will end up being a highly complex deal with many stakeholders. I believe Melnyk has already stated in the media that other private sector enterprises have already been in touch wanting to have a piece of this.

Could be very, very big.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It should be big

There's a whole lot of space that could be used intelligently

 

[Canadian Time]

I can definitely see this getting huge, which means it will end up being a highly complex deal with many stakeholders.

Absolutely, this will take many years to get sorted out before a plan is even approved. But lets at least start to think big in this city. There will be billions of dollars at stake, there will be threats, setbacks and rejigging of ideas before it gets going.

 

[DylanSensFan]

Are all Ottawa natives as melodramatic as a Senators fan?

 

[Knave]

Baby steps...

 

[YOW]

I love everyone's enthusiasm, really I do.

But at the end of the day infrastructure and potential will be supplanted by $$$$$$$$$$

Who's going to finance this?

Provincial money-nope.We broke. Not Liberal Sexy
City money- double nope.We're in debt. Already said no.
Melnyk- maybe a little.We're poor.no casino....no money.already a financial shell game.
Federal- hahalol...not a federal issue.
Minto- the whole bill? Not likely.

Valuation of the franchise downtown= + X?? million will not equal the $$$ Melnyk will have to pony up to move.
Unless Melnyk has a big stocking full O money to dump here I just dont see it happening without a casino intangibles.'

Where's the $$$??????????????????????

It's fun to dream, but I'm not seeing any wallets full and ready to spend what it is going to take.

IT'S OTTAWA PEOPLE.

 

[YOW]

Just to be clear I don't think any inflation of the value of the franchise by the move will make it worth the additional cost to build an arena downtown.

It's like spending 3 bucks to realize 1 in valuation.

Uncle Euge won't foot that bill out of charity.

I wish him luck convincing other parties differently.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I love everyone's enthusiasm, really I do.

But at the end of the day infrastructure and potential will be supplanted by $$$$$$$$$$

Who's going to finance this?

Provincial money-nope.We broke. Not Liberal Sexy
City money- double nope.We're in debt. Already said no.
Melnyk- maybe a little.We're poor.no casino....no money.already a financial shell game.
Federal- hahalol...not a federal issue.
Minto- the whole bill? Not likely.

Valuation of the franchise downtown= + X?? million will not equal the $$$ Melnyk will have to pony up to move.
Unless Melnyk has a big stocking full O money to dump here I just dont see it happening without a casino intangibles.'

Where's the $$$??????????????????????

It's fun to dream, but I'm not seeing any wallets full and ready to spend what it is going to take.

IT'S OTTAWA PEOPLE.

If the Senators are submitting a proposal it's because they think they can make it work

Obviously it's going to require a lot of people, organizations and money but they think it's doable or else they'd be focusing on something else

 

[LuckyPierre]

Building a state of the art arena at Lebreton Flats would've been amazing for the City and the Sens obviously.
But to be honest, I don't think they are bringing in a realistic proposal. Not making a bid would've been a PR disaster, so they'll probably ask for way more money from the City than the City could afford and just let this project die queitly.

It's not city owned land, nor a city directed project. They won't be asking for much from the city (besides surrounding infrastructure support) which is beneficial considering the poor relationship between Eugene and Jim.

I love everyone's enthusiasm, really I do.

But at the end of the day infrastructure and potential will be supplanted by $$$$$$$$$$

Who's going to finance this?

Provincial money-nope.We broke. Not Liberal Sexy
City money- double nope.We're in debt. Already said no.
Melnyk- maybe a little.We're poor.no casino....no money.already a financial shell game.
Federal- hahalol...not a federal issue.
Minto- the whole bill? Not likely.

Valuation of the franchise downtown= + X?? million will not equal the $$$ Melnyk will have to pony up to move.
Unless Melnyk has a big stocking full O money to dump here I just dont see it happening without a casino intangibles.'

Where's the $$$??????????????????????

It's fun to dream, but I'm not seeing any wallets full and ready to spend what it is going to take.

IT'S OTTAWA PEOPLE.

Except that it is a federal issue.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Good to see the ball start rolling.

It would be so amazing for the city to have a real attraction downtown. And, it gives the government a lot of motivation to get the next two phases of the LRT up and running asap.

Love it. The city really needs one hell of a boost. People living in Ottawa really don't see how badly the city has declined over the last 20 years. Ottawa has lost it's shine, and this arena move would go a long way to brinign life back into the city.

 

[SilverSeven]

Check the LRT plan. NONE of those routes will go to Lebreton once LRT is finished. They'll stop at Tunney's and a transfer to the train will be needed. So, there's going to be two bottlenecks for western commuters. One at Lebreton, the other at Tunney's. At least if the LRT stays in the form it currently is. Either that or special routes will be needed to run people to the arena on game days. So, once again, there's possibly multiple transfers required.

Well, people in the west end had it pretty good getting to Sens games for the last 20 years....