Low Effort GDT Senators @ Kings | We (sorta)Love LA edition | Sun Nov 27th 2022, 10:30PM | TSN5, RDS2

[Ice-Tray]

It always work back to this issue with 'some'. Consistency if nothing else.

oh you, looks like you missed me lol!

Probably some of the worst imo

Eh, blocking shots is never glamorous.

 

[Cosmix]

On the first LA PP goal, Joseph was out of position. On the second LA PP goal, Watson was slow to cover the point man. Looks like a coaching issue!

 

[Micklebot]

He plays down the lineup because at RW the Kings have Fiala, Vilardi, Arvidsson and Moore.

Even with one of those guys switching to the left side there's not a lot of room for him to play up in the lineup.

Kaliyev is an elite shooter and should be a 30G threat for most of his career. Pinto looks like a great pick but I wish the Sens staff would make the easy and obvious choice more often. Even when their "reach" picks pan out, the obvious pick would have worked out just as well or better (Peterka is another example).

Kaliyev being the easy and obvious pick is a little revisionist imo, wasn't he was rumoured to be on more than one team's DND list? That doesn't mean teams were right to have him on a DND list, in fact it looks like they were wrong, just that there were definitely flags. You don't get ranked 7th among NA on NHL CS and go on the second round if there are broad concerns.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Kaliyev being the easy and obvious pick is a little revisionist imo, wasn't he was rumoured to be on more than one team's DND list? That doesn't mean teams were right to have him on a DND list, in fact it looks like they were wrong, just that there were definitely flags. You don't get ranked 7th among NA on NHL CS and go on the second round if there are broad concerns.

He had 50 goals and 100 points in his draft year on a bad team.

He was the guy highest upside guy left on the board on day 2 and the only other player close to him was 5'8 Bobby Brink, who went right after at 34.

 

[bicboi64]

I wanted Kaliev and Lavoie in 2019, but am fine with Pinto and Sogaard.

I think Pinto will be more useful for us as a centre than Kaliev will be for the Kings, but overall, I'd say both players are projecting similarly and are at the same level right now.

 

[Micklebot]

He had 50 goals and 100 points in his draft year on a bad team.

He was the guy highest upside guy left on the board on day 2 and the only other player close to him was 5'8 Bobby Brink, who went right after at 34.

Uh huh, and 31 other teams had already passed on him, it's like saying Ho Sang was clearly the best choice, or Ryan Merkley, these guys got passed for reasons other than their upside. When other factors impact their likelihood of ever achieving that upside, teams look elsewhere.

There's a reason why all these teams said screw it, I'm not taking this guy,

 

[Ouroboros]

i doubt ottawa made that decision

its probably from the NHL the same they did with that kid that Boston signed


Formenton would have to be cleared by the commish to play in the nhl. Until that happens he probably doesn't sign. It is just weird how they chose to handle it on the DL and lie to the fans when most can see whats happening

Other than Tyler Steenburgen, every other player caught up in the Hockey Canada investigation is signed to an NHL contract and playing right now. A bunch of them signed new contracts over the summer. Why didn't the league intervene in any of those instances?

I don't think this is the same situation as Mailloux and Miller - both of those guys had already been through the legal system and punished accordingly. At this point Formenton hasn't even been officially accused of a crime, and he may never be.

If he were ineligible to play in the NHL it would be easy for Garrioch or Dreger or whoever to just say it. But they haven't. In fact, they've both suggested the opposite; that he can play and that there is trade interest in the player.

I think the Senators aren't willing to negotiate with him at this point in time, but that other teams may well be.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Uh huh, and 31 other teams had already passed on him, it's like saying Ho Sang was clearly the best choice, or Ryan Merkley, these guys got passed for reasons other than their upside. When other factors impact their likelihood of ever achieving that upside, teams look elsewhere.

There's a reason why all these teams said screw it, I'm not taking this guy,

Difference between Kaliyev and those guys is that Kaliyev is 6'2 and built.

Wasn't your classic small flashy skilled forward with great numbers but bad tools that HF usually clamours over.

He fell for the same reasons Mantha did - concerns off-ice and on-ice regarding effort level, which are legitimate but always ignores that any player capable of putting up massive numbers without putting in a consistent effort is one heck of a talent and there's a massive upside should they mature as individuals and start putting in the work.

 

[Micklebot]

Difference between Kaliyev and those guys is that Kaliyev is 6'2 and built.

Wasn't your classic small flashy skilled forward with great numbers but bad tools that HF usually clamours over.

He fell for the same reasons Mantha did - concerns off-ice and on-ice regarding effort level, which are legitimate but always ignores that any player capable of putting up massive numbers without putting in a consistent effort is one heck of a talent and there's a massive upside should they mature as individuals and start putting in the work.

Look, all I'm saying is there were red flags, so much so that when McKenzie did his lists ten scouts had him outside their top 40 despite the numbers. You can't just say those concerns didn't exist just because you don't share them.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Look, all I'm saying is there were red flags, so much so that when McKenzie did his lists ten scouts had him outside their top 40 despite the numbers. You can't just say those concerns didn't exist just because you don't share them.

The last sentence of my post literally says there were concerns off-ice and with effort level, so I'm not pretending they didn't exist.

My point is that, despite his red flags, Kaliyev's offensive upside more than justified the risk picking him at 32.

 

[Agent Zub]

Look, all I'm saying is there were red flags, so much so that when McKenzie did his lists ten scouts had him outside their top 40 despite the numbers. You can't just say those concerns didn't exist just because you don't share them.

that raises more red flags about the scouts than kaliyev tbh

happens too many times that they will trip over themselves to take or rate inferior players higher because they cant identify hockey sense.

 

[Boud]

Difference between Kaliyev and those guys is that Kaliyev is 6'2 and built.

Wasn't your classic small flashy skilled forward with great numbers but bad tools that HF usually clamours over.

He fell for the same reasons Mantha did - concerns off-ice and on-ice regarding effort level, which are legitimate but always ignores that any player capable of putting up massive numbers without putting in a consistent effort is one heck of a talent and there's a massive upside should they mature as individuals and start putting in the work.

I'm not sure why there's so much discussion around Kaliyev on this board. Pinto was an amazing pick. He's likely a better player than anyone picked in the 2nd half of the first round.

Many picks to be concerned about and this is not one of them.

 

[Micklebot]

The last sentence of my post literally says there were concerns off-ice and with effort level, so I'm not pretending they didn't exist.

My point is that, despite his red flags, Kaliyev's offensive upside more than justified the risk picking him at 32.

You implied he was the obvious choice, 10 scouts who do this for a living disagree, to me that suggests he was a valid, but not obvious choice. He came with risk, just as all players do.

 

[Micklebot]

that raises more red flags about the scouts than kaliyev tbh

happens too many times that they will trip over themselves to take or rate inferior players higher because they cant identify hockey sense.

L.Brown had similar red flags, perhaps if our scouts had though a bit more about him like they did regarding Kaliyev, we'd potentially have McAvoy or Chychrun instead. He was another divisive prospect, some were high on him having him in the top ten while others were not, Button if I recall had him 28th, it's the same idea except in the case of Brown he hasn't panned out and a team was willing to bet he would.

 

[Cosmix]

Due to the lack of publicly available evidence at this time regarding Formenton's role in "The Affair", I would like the Senators to sign him and put him on the roster now.

If the situation changes, then appropriate actions can be taken.

Formenton would improve our roster, particularly the third line replacing Motte who looks like a 4th liner to me.

We have too many 4th liners: Motte, Kelly, Kastelic, Gambrell, Brassard, & Watson. Two could be sent to the minors via waivers or traded for something more needed such as a big tough policeman.

 

[HSF]

Other than Tyler Steenburgen, every other player caught up in the Hockey Canada investigation is signed to an NHL contract and playing right now. A bunch of them signed new contracts over the summer. Why didn't the league intervene in any of those instances?

I don't think this is the same situation as Mailloux and Miller - both of those guys had already been through the legal system and punished accordingly. At this point Formenton hasn't even been officially accused of a crime, and he may never be.

If he were ineligible to play in the NHL it would be easy for Garrioch or Dreger or whoever to just say it. But they haven't. In fact, they've both suggested the opposite; that he can play and that there is trade interest in the player.

I think the Senators aren't willing to negotiate with him at this point in time, but that other teams may well be.

cause I think Formenton is the main player in all of this

no doubt teams are interested as they would get him on a cheap trade and hope he is cleared

 

[Alex1234]

oh you, looks like you missed me lol!


Eh, blocking shots is never glamorous.

You wrote PP that's why I wrote what I wrote (since you like poems)

 

[plasmon]

LA Kings fan here, coming in peace. I was at the OTT-LAK game last night, and there was a nice moment before the game. There were two kids showing a ‘Meat & Potatoes’ banner next to the Senators’ side of the ice during warmups. Claude Giroux came over and gave one of the kids a brand-new stick. A couple of minutes later Brady Tkachuk returned from the bench with another brand-new stick and gave that to the other kid. I'm not sure of the significance of the banner but it was a nice gesture on Giroux's and Tkachuk's part.

 

[NyQuil]

LA Kings fan here, coming in peace. I was at the OTT-LAK game last night, and there was a nice moment before the game. There were two kids showing a ‘Meat & Potatoes’ banner next to the Senators’ side of the ice during warmups. Claude Giroux came over and gave one of the kids a brand-new stick. A couple of minutes later Brady Tkachuk returned from the bench with another brand-new stick and gave that to the other kid. I'm not sure of the significance of the banner but it was a nice gesture on Giroux's and Tkachuk's part.View attachment 614032

The only thing I can find is this reference to old Sens coach Guy Boucher before a game against the Kings:

Boucher: This is a meat and potatoes team

Sens head coach Guy Boucher addresses the media prior to their game against the Kings.

www.tsn.ca

I might be missing something obvious like a nickname for a line.

Maybe Tkachuk with more little guys Stutzle and Giroux?

 

[Xspyrit]

Maybe it was an advice to the Sens in general, work in a more "Meat & Potatoes" way

 

[Ice-Tray]

You wrote PP that's why I wrote what I wrote (since you like poems)

I’m so like poems, and also

I botched the PK comment

You are right, Watty and Kelly should be nowhere near the PP unless we’re up by at least 3 with three to go

 

[GCK]

is it though? Kaliyev is actually a very hard worker himself, very conscious of his defensive zone despite his youth, and is extremely heavy on the boards. His shot is 40 goal level and is already producing at a top 6 rate despite playing bottom 6 minutes. He is maintaining his star trajectory.

So how is Pinto so next level compared to this guy?

Pinto plays a much more important position. Kaliyev is producing like a PP specialist which is nice but he’s not much use at 5v5. I disagree that he is a conscientious defender, I find him lacking in that aspect, he’s kind of a one trick pony in my eyes. Now I’ve only seen the Kings when they play Ottawa or one of the other Canadian teams on a national broadcast, but he has never been overly impressive to me.

The Logan Brown comparison was interesting regarding red flags. Watching each of them in the OHL Brown was one of the laziest and most frustrating players I’ve watched, Kaliyev was not lazy on that level but he was allergic to his own zone, he actually resembled a bigger Matt Puempel.

 

[Agent Zub]

Pinto plays a much more important position. Kaliyev is producing like a PP specialist which is nice but he’s not much use at 5v5. I disagree that he is a conscientious defender, I find him lacking in that aspect, he’s kind of a one trick pony in my eyes. Now I’ve only seen the Kings when they play Ottawa or one of the other Canadian teams on a national broadcast, but he has never been overly impressive to me.

The Logan Brown comparison was interesting regarding red flags. Watching each of them in the OHL Brown was one of the laziest and most frustrating players I’ve watched, Kaliyev was not lazy on that level but he was allergic to his own zone, he actually resembled a bigger Matt Puempel.

This reads like a scouting report from his draft year. And one of the wrong ones.

Especially the one trick pony part and power play specialist, wonder how many one trick ponys crack a playoff team as a 20 year old.

Funny thing is he's probably better defensively than Stutzle, Brady or Drake.

 

[GCK]

This reads like a scouting report from his draft year. And one of the wrong ones.

Especially the one trick pony part and power play specialist, wonder how many one trick ponys crack a playoff team as a 20 year old.

Funny thing is he's probably better defensively than Stutzle, Brady or Drake.

He is a train wreck defensively like Batherson. I saw a bunch of Kaliyev in junior so I may be viewing him with that bias but I stand by Pinto being a far superior player moving forward.

 

[Silencio]

Due to the lack of publicly available evidence at this time regarding Formenton's role in "The Affair", I would like the Senators to sign him and put him on the roster now.

If the situation changes, then appropriate actions can be taken.

Formenton would improve our roster, particularly the third line replacing Motte who looks like a 4th liner to me.

We have too many 4th liners: Motte, Kelly, Kastelic, Gambrell, Brassard, & Watson. Two could be sent to the minors via waivers or traded for something more needed such as a big tough policeman.

Even if Ottawa was to sign Formenton now (highly doubtful) it's probably too late to make much of a significant on ice impact for this year. Formenton has already missed an entire training camp and 20+ regular season games, even the most rigorous off ice workout regimen can't make up for that missed time. When Nylander held out and signed just before December 1 he went on to have by far the worst season of his career to date.