Post-Game Talk: Senators @ Blue Jackets | Well, that got chippy

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Derivation

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Jan 4, 2010
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I can't imagine that having as many as three guys drop in an out of the starting lineup from game to game can really help chemistry, game planning, etc.

At some point the music has to stop on roster musical chairs.

I personally think that Condra, Weirchoch and Greening need to sit in the press box until Methot is back, at which point one of them goes, or until we need someone to fill in for an injured player (i.e. Boro).

I disagree.

As BM stated at the start of the season, the extra forwards and D give MacLean options to not only match up with opposing teams but bench players who aren't performing and not have to get a random guy from Binghamton who has little experience.
 

coladin

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Sep 18, 2009
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Hey, I like to win too and elite goaltending is great. Just pointing out that Anderson and Lehner are covering up problem areas, and identifying players that need to do more (or be replaced) if we want more wins.

Given last year's performance, I don't think questioning the coach or certain players is out of line in any way.

O of course not, questioning players is forum commonplace. However, is it not the role of the goaltender to cover up mistakes or problem areas? One only needs to watch the Kings, Rangers, or other elite teams to realize that all of the elite teams have elite goalies. Sometimes they are not much better than losing teams, the goalies make all the difference.

I think we are not used to this level of goaltending and it scares us!
 

BigRig4

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Feb 22, 2014
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Number of shots isn't everything. The other team could shoot the puck 50 times from center ice and it would appear that they outshot us on the scoresheet. What matters to me is the quality of those shots. I don't have the numbers with me but I'm sure that we have as many great scoring chances as the teams we faced so far. Yes, our goaltenders had to bail us out a couple of times but that's the reality of the game. Nobody's going anywhere without good goaltending.

That being said, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to cut down on those scoring chances. Can't wait for Methot to come back.

Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure you're right outside of the Nashville/Chicago game. Every team in the league has bad games though so it's not out of the ordinary.
 

trueseraphim

Registered User
Jul 5, 2013
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Loved the GWG. Lehner with a huge save, takes out the dman (bad play by R.Murray) and gets/deserves an assist with the rebound.

Ceci. I guess starting a trend of surprise 20 year old top-4 dman every couple of seasons is OK with me.
 

Karl Eriksson

Boring!
Apr 12, 2007
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I disagree.

As BM stated at the start of the season, the extra forwards and D give MacLean options to not only match up with opposing teams but bench players who aren't performing and not have to get a random guy from Binghamton who has little experience.

Id agree with that if we had an embarrassment of riches, but what we have is a bunch of roughly equally marginal guys who alternate not sucking as much as the other (except for Lazar...his issue is just youth).
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
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A whole lot negative, actually. Maybe people are expecting Picassos instead of kindergarten finger painting. I just like winning. As Paulrus says: "A win is a win is a win is a win".

I don't think we should apologize for having great goaltending. Would you rather that we have average goaltending and outshoot them, but lose?

Well, we absolutely require top notch goaltending to win.

It's a good thing we're getting it.

coladin said:
One only needs to watch the Kings, Rangers, or other elite teams to realize that all of the elite teams have elite goalies. Sometimes they are not much better than losing teams, the goalies make all the difference.

I think we are not used to this level of goaltending and it scares us!

2013-2014:
Los Angeles 2nd - 26.2
NY Rangers 15th - 29.4
Ottawa 29th - 34.7

In a short sample this year, Ottawa is currently 29th again at 36.2. (Buffalo, the AHL team is 30th at 36.7)

I agree that there are other factors, such as quality of shots and times shorthanded, but I still think SA is a decent proxy for how well you are able to restrict scoring opportunities against you.

I think it is symptomatic of our inability to manage the puck well in our own zone, most critically with respect to certain d-men unable to clear the zone efficiently and effectively and certain d-men unable to pin or neutralize a puck carrier.
 
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costermonger

sans classe
Nov 4, 2007
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Kitchener, Ont
Shot count isn't a terribly useful metric to compare teams when different systems have different emphasis on allowing or preventing shooting chances in different parts of the rink, because all shots are not created equal.

We're using a system that allows a lot of shots from outside and doesn't emphasize blocked shots - in fact the defense often makes an effort to clear the lanes so the goalie can see, and there's a logic in that. If done well, this drives the opponent shooting percentage down because the goalie is facing lower quality shots, creates flattering save percentage numbers, etc.

We're not exactly an outlier in this. LA (especially), Anaheim and Chicago all appear to allow lower quality shots in higher volumes than average. If we could keep the shot quality the same and maintain possession more effectively (thus allow slightly fewer shots) we'd be in some pretty good company.
 

SaltyPete

Registered User
May 7, 2014
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Shot count isn't a terribly useful metric to compare teams when different systems have different emphasis on allowing or preventing shooting chances in different parts of the rink, because all shots are not created equal.

We're using a system that allows a lot of shots from outside and doesn't emphasize blocked shots - in fact the defense often makes an effort to clear the lanes so the goalie can see, and there's a logic in that. If done well, this drives the opponent shooting percentage down because the goalie is facing lower quality shots, creates flattering save percentage numbers, etc.

We're not exactly an outlier in this. LA (especially), Anaheim and Chicago all appear to allow lower quality shots in higher volumes than average. If we could keep the shot quality the same and maintain possession more effectively (thus allow slightly fewer shots) we'd be in some pretty good company.

The teams you listed were all in the top ten last year for shots allowed per game. LA in particular was second in the league at preventing shots against with 26.2.
 

costermonger

sans classe
Nov 4, 2007
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Kitchener, Ont
The teams you listed were all in the top ten last year for shots allowed per game. LA in particular was second in the league at preventing shots against with 26.2.

Well, I mean now, but yes - that's because they're better than us. We're playing the right kind of defense but we're playing it too much. We need to control the puck more.

Compare Opponent shooting percentage and a possession stat like Fenwick and you see what I mean. With Maclean as coach we've been pretty good a part of the formula, and we probably need a personnel change to solve the problem, but the answer isn't blocking shots or anything like that.
 

NyQuil

Big F$&*in Q
Jan 5, 2005
95,688
59,935
Ottawa, ON
I would be curious to see ES SA and whether that makes much of a difference.

We haven't been overly penalized this season but we certainly were last night.































Penalized.

giphy.gif
 

Caeldan

Whippet Whisperer
Jun 21, 2008
15,459
1,046
The same thing was said about his hit on Eller. Not much different about this hit except for the blood caused by hitting the ice.

In this case at least the right call was made, and he's not getting anything. So that's good.
 

Cosmix

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Jul 24, 2011
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Ok, here you go



Thanks. Those helmets come off very quickly when the straps are not done up right, don't they! I hope the league starts to force players to wear them properly or more players will be injured severely in the head if they don't.
 

Cosmix

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For sure. In those 8 games he has been "meh" to me so far. I suppose we could discuss no players in how they play until the 30 game mark?

My take is the same as yours! :)

Zibby seems ok defensively but very meh offensively so far. I don't agree with those who say this is " hate". It is simply commenting on the obvious.
 

Cosmix

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Also Guptil and Nick Paul who is turning heads in a big way plus and 2nd round pick.

Long term that will end up being good return for Ottawa and hopefully a diamond in the rough with Nick Paul.

I see that Guptil has only played 3 games with Binghamton and missed about 3 games so far. Is he injured or scratched?
 

Cosmix

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Well, we absolutely require top notch goaltending to win.

It's a good thing we're getting it.



2013-2014:
Los Angeles 2nd - 26.2
NY Rangers 15th - 29.4
Ottawa 29th - 34.7

In a short sample this year, Ottawa is currently 29th again at 36.2. (Buffalo, the AHL team is 30th at 36.7)

I agree that there are other factors, such as quality of shots and times shorthanded, but I still think SA is a decent proxy for how well you are able to restrict scoring opportunities against you.

I think it is symptomatic of our inability to manage the puck well in our own zone, most critically with respect to certain d-men unable to clear the zone efficiently and effectively and certain d-men unable to pin or neutralize a puck carrier.

I agree with your assessment but think the forwards bear part of the responsibility too, not just the Dmen. Plus the team needs to cut down on penalties too.
 

The Waffler

Registered Offender
Jul 10, 2009
13,730
723
Planet Earth
Methot should improve shots against drastically.



That has to be a PP group now. 5 guys who are terrific at passing the puck and finishing their chances.

Stone-Chiasson-MacArthur
Turris-Karlsson

2nd PP:

Ryan-Michalek-Legwand
Zibanejad-Ceci

I don't think 1/18th of a full roster or wtv it is is gonna improve shots against drastically
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,764
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Dubai Marina
I don't think 1/18th of a full roster or wtv it is is gonna improve shots against drastically

This is a drastic assumption.

I doubt he will make that much of a difference.

Methot with Karlsson means Karlsson plays better, it means that pairing has 2 great breakout options which limits puck in our own zone.

Having Methot also means we only have 1 iffy top 4 instead of 2.

Methot does 3 things. He helps Karlsson and consequently Karlsson plays better(which in itself is biggest impact) he also pushes down a weak top 4 and he takes up 20 minutes of ice time as a great defender with breakout skills.
 
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