Seattle V: Make It So(Do)...

[gstommylee]

Revamped KeyArena may be best bet for landing NHL team

http://seattletimes.com/html/hockey/2023462147_baker26xml.html


I find it rather ironic the idea of Revamping KeyArena into a hockey ready arena. The Key arena revamp made it NBA only arena now Ray B is looking maybe turn it into a NHL only arena.

Of course my personally i think its impossible that it will ever happen however it would be awesome if it gets Hansen to cave in built sodo arena built for NHL first with him providing funds.

Mods,

With this news on the possible of a redesign of Key arena and if the news keep coming out about it would it be enough to keep the Seattle Mega thread into to Seattle VI once this onehits 1000 posts?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Revamped KeyArena may be best bet for landing NHL team

http://seattletimes.com/html/hockey/2023462147_baker26xml.html


I find it rather ironic the idea of Revamping KeyArena into a hockey ready arena. The Key arena revamp made it NBA only arena now Ray B is looking maybe turn it into a NHL only arena.

Of course my personally i think its impossible that it will ever happen however it would be awesome if it gets Hansen to cave in built sodo arena built for NHL first with him providing funds.

Mods,

With this news on the possible of a redesign of Key arena and if the news keep coming out about it would it be enough to keep the Seattle Mega thread into to Seattle VI once this onehits 1000 posts?

Problem you run in w/ KASC, is the environmentalists, tommy, you don't have a plan B IF KASC has to retrofitted to be an NHL only facility, didn't the Sonics have to vacate for almost a full year when Key was last renovated, esp. if SODO is delayed or not built.

 

[gstommylee]

Problem you run in w/ KASC is the environmentalists, tommy, you don't have a plan B IF KASC has to retrofitted to be an NHL only facility, didn't the Sonics have to vacate for almost a full year when Key was last renovated, esp. if SODO is delayed or not built.

There will always be environmentalist no matter where the arena goes. There are even one trying to kill the sodo arena project

We have no nhl team as that is not an issue. Nhl can time expansion where it begins playing after its done.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

There will always be environmentalist no matter where the arena goes. There are even one trying to kill the sodo arena project

We have no nhl team as that is not an issue. Nhl can time expansion where it begins playing after its done.

NHL is not coming to Seattle whether it's Hansen or a reconstructed Key, tommy, where's the franchise coming from and they're not expanding to just include Seattle.

 

[gstommylee]

NHL is not coming to Seattle whether it's Hansen or a reconstructed Key, tommy, where's the franchise coming from and they're not expanding to just include Seattle.

And doing nothing will not get us a team. bettman was very clear we need an nhl ready arena plan. I believe nhl was ready to give us a team if the sodo arena was going to be built for a nhl team with ray b as the owner. A poosible announcement was looking at happen after the playoffs

But the sodo arena isnt gonna be built for a nhl arena thus bettmans comment.

Nhl was waiting for seattle to get ready before they announce expansion which they arent going to be ready any time soon thus ni expansion.

You just dont see sports comissioners make comments like that about a possible expansion destination

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

And doing nothing will not get us a team. bettman was very clear we need an nhl ready arena plan. I believe nhl was ready to give us a team if the sodo arena was going to be built for a nhl team.

It isnt thus bettmans comment

wrong, you don't have an arena, there is no expansion or relocation options w/o one, what Bettman wants is what Seattle was trying to accomplish when SODO was approved... most of us agreed by using KASC as a temporary option until SODO was being constructed and ready for occupancy, but KASC as a primary isn't what any league wants to place its member club in....

this is/was the worst case scenario, what if SODO is never built despite being approved.

if Hansen was around when the Sonics were still there, the same MO applies, both the NBA/NHL want assurances that a modern arena such as what is now being done @ Mission Point for Golden State, or the new Sacramento arena, that's what you have w/ SODO, they would've allowed KASC as a short-term solution.

that's wht Bettman meant when he said "no on Seattle expansion".

 

[gstommylee]

wrong, you don't have an arena, there is no expansion or relocation options w/o one, what Bettman wants is what Seattle was trying to accomplish when SODO was approved... most of us agreed by using KASC as a temporary option until SODO was being constructed and ready for occupancy, but KASC as a primary isn't what any league wants to place its member club in....

this is/was the worst case scenario, what if SODO is never built despite being approved.

if Hansen was around when the Sonics were still there, the same MO applies, both the NBA/NHL want assurances that a modern arena such as what is now being done @ Mission Point for Golden State, or the new Sacramento arena, that's what you have w/ SODO, they would've allowed KASC as a short-term solution.

that's wht Bettman meant when he said "no on Seattle expansion".

Only reason why expansion isnt happening cause Hansen wont built it for a nhl team. As soon as hansen made the recent comment about not wanting to modify the mou for the nhl, the expansion plans went south.

Bettman was talking about key arena as it is right now. What ray b wants to do is rebuild key arena into a nhl ready arena.

Ray is not going to wait for hansen to get things going. Hes looking elsewhere and if ray is succesful in rebuilding key arena into a nhl arena we will get a team.

You cant turn key arena into a 17k seat nhl arena with luxury suites without a major rebuild aka raze to ground and rebuild.

 

[wunderpanda]

I still think the Clippers are a possible relocation candidate. Sterling was caught in another situation, seems to be an annual event at this point. tmz link

Eventually the NBA will be embarrassed enough to kick him out and I'm not sure if a new owner would be interested in the current arena sharing plan they have in L.A. or if they would be able to get an arena of their own.

Not sure how the So Cal fan base is divided, but the NBA wouldn't lose that market by allowing the Clippers to move and may actually gain more fans in Seattle (than they would lose in So Cal)

 

[gstommylee]

I still think the Clippers are a possible relocation candidate. Sterling was caught in another situation, seems to be an annual event at this point. tmz link

Eventually the NBA will be embarrassed enough to kick him out and I'm not sure if a new owner would be interested in the current arena sharing plan they have in L.A. or if they would be able to get an arena of their own.

Not sure how the So Cal fan base is divided, but the NBA wouldn't lose that market by allowing the Clippers to move and may actually gain more fans in Seattle (than they would lose in So Cal)

A couple if questions

1) whats the lease details

2) would the nba actually let the team move or do they rather keep 2 teams in La

 

[Killion]

Revamped KeyArena may be best bet for landing NHL team

http://seattletimes.com/html/hockey/2023462147_baker26xml.html


I find it rather ironic the idea of Revamping KeyArena into a hockey ready arena. The Key arena revamp made it NBA only arena now Ray B is looking maybe turn it into a NHL only arena.

Of course my personally i think its impossible that it will ever happen however it would be awesome if it gets Hansen to cave in built sodo arena built for NHL first with him providing funds.

Mods,

With this news on the possible of a redesign of Key arena and if the news keep coming out about it would it be enough to keep the Seattle Mega thread into to Seattle VI once this onehits 1000 posts?

Interesting article.... I like the way Ray B's thinking. Hitching his wagon to Hansen/Ballmers' plans didnt work out to well so he's re-calibrating & looking into the possible retro-fitting of Key Arena which to put it mildly I dont think would be any kind of minor project, but actually pretty major. The earlier renovations circa 1994 when the building was closed for a year cost around $100M if Im not mistaken, wrecking it for anything but basketball, concerts & events. They lowered the entire floor by 35', basketball bleacher seating configuration, destroying the sight lines for hockey permanently, half the seating left either obstructed or uncomfortable, the scoreboard hanging over a blue-line and one end a dead zone, no seating at all.

So this suggestion I find very intriguing, that a major reno could put the building back in black and on the map. Rather like MSG's major renovations. Be very interested to see that fully scoped out with app costs. Reversing the damage the Sonics did to the place is going to run Id hazard to guess to somewhere around $250M+ at minimum, perhaps less, Im not a structural engineer but based on what was done, looking at MSG & also Jim Balsillies proposal for Copps that might be about right. Skys the limit really. Just depends how extensive but "if" it can be done, Id prefer that to a brand new building actually as I favor retaining old buildings & reno's rather than simply the building of yet another soulless & generic plastic monolith of the kind we see everywhere in the Brutalist Architectural Style.

That being said, I dont know that that would be "acceptable" to the NHL, Key now being 52yrs old, past the point to wit the leagues (mistakenly) feel that a building has past its usefulness & practicality in providing enough suites along with the rest of the Bells&Whistles upon which revenues are generated. I disagree with that, and do believe that extensive and even costly renovations, even if they cost more than the land & construction of a new building is in some cases preferable in retaining buildings of importance to the cultural fabric of a city. That would include btw, Boston Garden, the Montreal Forum & Maple Leaf Gardens, that those three should have been completely renovated & brought into the 21st century rather than destroyed, turned into condo's or supermarkets.

NHL is not coming to Seattle whether it's Hansen or a reconstructed Key, tommy, where's the franchise coming from and they're not expanding to just include Seattle.

That would be your opinion. It WILL be coming to Seattle just as it WILL be landing in Quebec by hook or by crook via Relocation or Expansion....

and you can take dat tada Bank HUTCH.

 

[gstommylee]

Interesting article.... I like the way Ray B's thinking.... So this suggestion I find very intriguing, that a major reno could put the building back in black and on the map. Rather like MSG's major renovations. Be very interested to see that fully scoped out with app costs.

We are talking about tearing down Key arena and rebuilding it as NHL only. Key is too small of a foot print (400k square foot) Back when balmer tried to buy the sonics back before they left he had a 300m plan which he was gonna do half that would had teared down Key and rebuild it ground up of course we all knew that didn't happen as bennent wasn't gonna sell the team.

 

[Fugu]

From the Seattle Times article, not sure that this was documented about Hansen-Ballmer:

That was once solid NHL momentum for Seattle coming out of the Sochi Olympics has evaporated after Ballmer and Hansen allowed the arena process to stall by not submitting documentation to complete an environmental impact study. Instead, they spent months exploring NBA markets for relocation to Seattle, then, when that failed, declared they lacked enough hockey passion to push the arena project forward. Hansen did say he and Ballmer would work as minority ownership partners with anyone willing to foot the significant extra money to change their arena project to an NHL-first venue.

Also noting that Bartoszek said he had all the details worked out for landing the Coyotes, and only Glendale's vote kept the team there. We had the back and forth about Seattle vs Portland, but I think this confirms it was Seattle all along.

And mention that other "investors" are looking at new arena options for Bellevue, but Batroszek himself isn't interested.


Finally, divining Bettman, but I'm not sure he's really keen on Key... is he referring to the potential overhaul as the new, state-of-the-art building?

Whatever they concoct had better be dramatic. The league wasn’t impressed with KeyArena last year, and commissioner Gary Bettman was cautious Thursday when asked about an overhaul.
“We know, in its current form, it isn’t an ideal or close to an ideal hockey facility,’’ Bettman said. “If that were the view long term, I’m not sure that’s anything anybody would be interested in.
“However, if there was a new state-of-the-art building that was hockey friendly and a hockey team had prospects of getting in there, then somebody might be able to get our attention.’’

 

[Killion]

We are talking about tearing down Key arena and rebuilding it as NHL only. Key is too small of a foot print (400k square foot) Back when balmer tried to buy the sonics back before they left he had a 300m plan which he was gonna do half that would had teared down Key and rebuild it ground up of course we all knew that didn't happen as bennent wasn't gonna sell the team.

No, "we" are not taking about that nor does it sound like Ray B. is talking about that either tommy. Talking about a major renovation to the arena on its current footing. Under its shell so to speak. Not knocking it down completely & re-building it though that too is an option, or has the place been given Historical Designation & cant be imploded?... regardless, no, he's talking & Im talking extensive renovations just as Balsillie had tabled for Copps though in the case of Key there would have to be some major structural alterations made, like maybe re-elevating the floor from its 35' depth back up to pre-94 level and thats just for starters but ya, we have the technology. Can be done. Only think inhibits Man is a lack of imagination, seeing nothing but obstacles and ultimately obstructing goals.

 

[GuelphStormer]

there are a few little bomshells in this article ... not the least of which is this:

He wouldn’t go into exact details of his Coyotes purchase agreement with the NHL — citing confidentiality clauses — but did say fail-safes were in place to protect him had a new arena failed to materialize after three years.

perhaps i missed specific reference to this in the past, but the article clearly states that Bartozsek had a 'purchase agreement' with the NHL. notwithstanding the rumour vortex, is this the first legitimate confirmation of that?

moreover, what kind of out would he have been granted, and/or that the NHL would (in its moment of desperation) agree to, if sodo was never built? that he would have been granted a portable, or fully refundable, team?

 

[Fugu]

there are a few little bomshells in this article ... not the least of which is this:



perhaps i missed specific reference to this in the past, but the article clearly states that Bartozsek had a 'purchase agreement' with the NHL. notwithstanding the rumour vortex, is this the first legitimate confirmation of that?

moreover, what kind of out would he have been granted, and/or that the NHL would (in its moment of desperation) agree to, if sodo was never built? that he would have been granted a portable, or fully refundable, team?

I noted it my post above, GS, but yes, all we had previously was the rumor about Key Arena, and Bartoszek. The mayor of Seattle did confirm the NHL visit and that that Key was a back-up--- however, that was dismissed.

 

[Killion]

^^^ Indeed. I would say thats as good as it gets in terms of confirmation.... kinda skipped over that in reading it myself, but yes. If this is some new offensive in a Public Relations Campaign, what better way to get it launched then to have Ray B. disclose, finally, what was in fact going on (beyond just rumor) behind the scenes last spring & summer. I wonder if it is concerted with the NHL or if he's talking out of turn. Bit revelatory, certainly a curious development as we look ahead.

 

[GuelphStormer]

I noted it my post above, GS, but yes, all we had previously was the rumor about Key Arena, and Bartoszek. The mayor of Seattle did confirm the NHL visit and that that Key was a back-up--- however, that was dismissed.

oh no doubt, it's not exactly surprising ... i guess i just didn't know it had been formalized into a 'purchase agreement'. the interesting thing for me was the implied out-clause ... "fail-safes to protect him" ... i'd like to know what they were, and what exactly the NHL agreed to. especially as to how those fail-safes might influence the various talks that the league has with owners around the league and their respective less than optimal buildings. was gary desperate enough a year ago to agree to bartozsek that if he got the yotes and if sodo failed, that key could become permanent? notwithstanding gary's less than contextually desperate comment today that key isn't a long term option, was it then?

i wonder if hansen is beginning to feel slighted.

 

[Fugu]

oh no doubt, it's not exactly surprising ... i guess i just didn't know it had been formalized into a 'purchase agreement'. the interesting thing for me was the implied out-clause ... "fail-safes to protect him" ... i'd like to know what they were, and what exactly the NHL agreed to. especially as to how those fail-safes might influence the various talks that the league has with owners around the league and their respective less than optimal buildings. was gary desperate enough a year ago to agree to bartozsek that if he got the yotes and if sodo failed, that key could become permanent? notwithstanding gary's less than contextually desperate comment today that key isn't a long term option, was it then?

i wonder if hansen is beginning to feel slighted.

Re: Hansen. Slighted by whom? The NBA? I'd think that he was very forceful in his dealings with them in Sacramento. The vote from the BOG was 6 in his favor only, and everyone else against his bid.


As for the fail safes, I think it would be similar to what the bid for the Milwaukee Bucks included, that being the league buying the team back for a pre-negotiated price if the arena fails to eventuate.

 

[wildthing202]

Re: Hansen. Slighted by whom? The NBA? I'd think that he was very forceful in his dealings with them in Sacramento. The vote from the BOG was 6 in his favor only, and everyone else against his bid.


As for the fail safes, I think it would be similar to what the bid for the Milwaukee Bucks included, that being the league buying the team back for a pre-negotiated price if the arena fails to eventuate.

I'm think it's more about how Stern did a 180, talking Seattle up as getting a relocated Kings then from out of nowhere is all aboard the "save the Kings" bandwagon a few months later.

Is it known which 6 were in favor?

 

[GuelphStormer]

Re: Hansen. Slighted by whom? The NBA? I'd think that he was very forceful in his dealings with them in Sacramento. The vote from the BOG was 6 in his favor only, and everyone else against his bid.

anyone and everyone. admittedly, my info comes from here and media reports, but it sure seems that hansen is no longer seen as the white knight poised to save seattle. he just keeps losing battles. and now here we see bartozsek saying that he was crowned in waiting by the NHL last year. and more acutely, he is now publicly questioning any continued association with hansen.

 

[Fugu]

I'm think it's more about how Stern did a 180, talking Seattle up as getting a relocated Kings then from out of nowhere is all aboard the "save the Kings" bandwagon a few months later.

Is it known which 6 were in favor?

That hasn't been leaked, as far as I can recall. There may have been a couple public statements from some of the NBA's BOGs on the topic, and if I had to guess, probably larger market teams. That could be why the winning bid included that part about no share of the revenue sharing money once the new arena was built.

 

[PCSPounder]

... ya. Theres that. As well as the Oregon Vortex. Avoided by wildlife, Natives Americans.... and of course over the years Circus Sideshow Freaks & Captured Sasquatches having disappeared mysteriously when venturing near.... Here are the coordinates PCS > 42.4931N / 123.0851W <.... Suggest you enter them into your GPS & avoid that area entirely.... come to in 1943 as part of the superstructure aboard the USS Eldridge at the Philadelphia Navy Yards.... Unified Field Theory.... Einstein.... Sublimation... oh, also Mount Shasta, Keep Away..... Sedona region in Az. Superstition Mountain Range....

Been to the Vortex. Been to Mount Shasta City. Been to Sedona. I'm too far gone.

 

[Fugu]

anyone and everyone. admittedly, my info comes from here and media reports, but it sure seems that hansen is no longer seen as the white knight poised to save seattle. he just keeps losing battles. and now here we see bartozsek saying that he was crowned in waiting by the NHL last year. and more acutely, he is now publicly questioning any continued association with hansen.

Levin also mentioned being frustrated with the ongoing arena issue and that he was no longer in the hunt, maybe 2-3 months ago?

Who knows if he's going to pursue his Bellevue option given the recent turn, seeing there was some mention of 'investors' and 'Bellevue'.

 

[brewski420]

I'm think it's more about how Stern did a 180, talking Seattle up as getting a relocated Kings then from out of nowhere is all aboard the "save the Kings" bandwagon a few months later.

Is it known which 6 were in favor?

I believe the Lakers (Phil Jackson connection with Ms. Buss) were on board as well as Cuban. Not sure about the others.

 

[Killion]

Who knows if he's going to pursue his Bellevue option given the recent turn, seeing there was some mention of 'investors' and 'Bellevue'.

I believe this is another group altogether Fugu. Parallel to Levin. 3-4 groups all scoping things out though based on the link above & as discussed looks like Ray there had the inside track.