Seattle V: Make It So(Do)...

[Killion]

.... and carry on, starting here.

Click to read more...

 

[Killion]

... from tommys earlier post on the preceding thread:

http://seattletimes.com/html/hockey/2022905302_nhlseattle14xml.html

Seattle times has a article that talks about seattle's chances of an NHL team and gives somewhat of an update on where things are at.

"Sources say there have been negotiations between the league and potential ownership groups in Seattle about the cost of expansion fees. To the point where the NHL and local officials could be prepared to make some type of announcement shortly after the Olympic Games in Sochi conclude — at a time the NHL hopes nationwide interest in its sport will be at a high point. "

Mods: if this text from the article is too much please edit it as i am not sure off hand what is consider acceptable and not.

 

[gstommylee]

I would think the NHL would want Seattle to have a top talent player to get things going.

Of course i rather have local boy TJ Oshie on the team if St louis somehow leaves him unprotected than top pick in the draft.

 

[Killion]

... and:

I'm just speaking in terms of what has happened and what almost certainly would happen. This was an issue in the 90s, especially 1991 with the Sharks entering in the Lindros draft - the owners didn't want a new team coming in and taking a potential generational talent, so San Jose was awarded the 2nd overall pick instead of the 1st.

As I said, I'm in favor of an expansion team being entered in the lottery (which didn't exist in 1991, but did for the late 90s expansion), but not outright being awarded the #1.

At least the NHL has been far more fair about giving expansion teams picks (in the 90s at least) than Major League Baseball is...while Arizona and Tampa Bay were given sandwich round picks in the two seasons leading up to their entering the league (to establish a farm system), they didn't select until the 3rd (Arizona) or 4th round (Tampa Bay) in their expansion seasons of 1998. The Rockies and Marlins got sandwich round picks in their expansion seasons of 1993, but only had one previous draft before entering the league to 'build' a farm system. For those unfamiliar with the MLB Draft - there are sandwich rounds between the 1st & 2nd round and between the 2nd & 3rd round that are either compensation picks or, starting in 2013, 'competitive balance' picks that are awarded via a lottery system. Picks in that 28-40 range hit about as often as NHL 4th rounders do.

That's a good point and make sense.

If your ball is selected how many spots can you move up in the lottery draft? Three or four?

I'd be okay with an expansion team getting the #2 overall pick, but not the 1st. Just don't do what the NBA did to the Vancouver Grizzlies and Toronto Raptors where they were banned from drafting first overall for their first six years.

The expansion draft, IMO, would be more critical than the entry draft. Obviously the number of players the league allows each team to protect would be an impact for the expansion team. Can't expect them to be competitive if other teams are able to protect everyone minus the 4th line and 5th and 6th d-men.

 

[Killion]

couple of stragglers....

The NFL typically has had their expansion teams get the top picks in their first draft.

About the first part, let's face it, more than half the current crowds weren't around when the last ownership was here. They're in the arena for a winner. They're casual fans. You definitely have core Winterhawks fans... but what happens if there's no Thunderbirds, or if that rivalry is "muted" by NHL Seattle?

Second: the sports business has evolved from selling tickets to selling SEASON tickets. Playing 36 games a year in Moda will chase out the Hawks with the next talent dry spell. Bill Gallacher was the guy who wanted to put $10 million into that glass box, because there would be less rent paid and he'd probably have control of all team revenues. Of course, even the current mayor knows the $30 million plan isn't enough. I'm not disagreeing with the assessment of "the bowl in the box, yo", I'm saying it's a better seating capacity and economic situation for a Portland WHL team if the thing is gutted and reconstructed.

 

[gstommylee]

In response to pcspounder.

I don't see why Seattle getting NHL team would hurt the thunderbirds.

Like i have said before WHL is not the same as NHL and WHL ticket prices are far more affordable for someone that wants to see a general game of hockey but can't afford NHL prices.

I kinda expect NHL would help draw more interest in the sport and the WHL teams in the state specifically the two in Western Wa could benefit from it.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

In response to pcspounder.

I don't see why Seattle getting NHL team would hurt the thunderbirds.

Like i have said before WHL is not the same as NHL and WHL ticket prices are far more affordable for someone that wants to see a general game of hockey but can't afford NHL prices.

I kinda expect NHL would help draw more interest in the sport and the WHL teams in the state specifically the two in Western Wa could benefit from it.

Won't stop me from going to see the T-Birds. And I plan on having season tics if we get an NHL team.

 

[gstommylee]

I think the quietness from the NHL about the latest rumor is good news too me. Article did say could happen but still.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

To give a response to Rocko604's final post -

If you win the lottery these days you pick #1, no matter what your starting point...but it's heavily weighted. Considering how the NHL handled expansion in the 90s it's a safe bet to say any expansion teams moving forward would select within the top 5 and have a small chance of winning a #1 pick if included in the lottery.

The way the NBA handled the Toronto/Vancouver expansion is nothing short of disgusting. Barring an expansion team from a 1st overall pick for more than half a decade is just...no. I'd be fine if the NHL just came out and said no higher than #2 in their expansion year, but to bar a 1st pick 6 years later? Disgusting. As I was picking on MLB earlier for the way they handled their expansion-year picks, the Devil Rays finished dead last that year and selected 1st overall in 1999. The Diamondbacks had a slightly better season and selected 4th overall.

The expansion draft definitely plays a huge role, but I think even keeping the draft the same exact way it was when Minnesota & Columbus entered the league would provide a half-decent team. We've had hypothetical protection lists on the main board pop up for a while now and while some teams aren't too scared of losing anything of any consequence, others would certainly lose solid talent. The old system would have the Penguins having 2 of Rob Scuderi, Matt Niskanen, or Robert Bortuzzo exposed. There's just more talent out there today than there was in 2000...I mean the first Penguin chosen in that draft was a 25 year-old who had never played professionally outside of Sweden before (and would play only 1 season in the AHL after). The salary cap would also play into things, something that wasn't a concern in 2000. Pascal Dupuis could find his way onto an expansion team just because of that...you don't build your team around him, but he's a better steely veteran than Tyler Wright ever was.

 

[PCSPounder]

In response to pcspounder.

I don't see why Seattle getting NHL team would hurt the thunderbirds.

Like i have said before WHL is not the same as NHL and WHL ticket prices are far more affordable for someone that wants to see a general game of hockey but can't afford NHL prices.

I kinda expect NHL would help draw more interest in the sport and the WHL teams in the state specifically the two in Western Wa could benefit from it.

Season tickets are no longer priced for the center of the population to own for multiple sports... unless you live with your parents, and granted, there's more of that going on.

The media have only the time for the big cheese. That's the NHL, and unlike Vancouver, the Seahawks own even more of the media... which is also to say that Seattle isn't Canada.

Not to mention... the Thunderbirds aren't that good a draw in the first place.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Season tickets are no longer priced for the center of the population to own for multiple sports... unless you live with your parents, and granted, there's more of that going on.

The media have only the time for the big cheese. That's the NHL, and unlike Vancouver, the Seahawks own even more of the media... which is also to say that Seattle isn't Canada.

Not to mention... the Thunderbirds aren't that good a draw in the first place.

The T-Birds are right in the middle of the pack in WHL attendance this season.....Including 10 Canadian teams lower than them in the rankings. They aren't playing to crickets.

 

[gstommylee]

The T-Birds are right in the middle of the pack in WHL attendance this season.....Including 10 Canadian teams lower than them in the rankings. They aren't playing to crickets.

The T-birds are also playing very very good hockey lately too. Currently 4th in conference 6th overall in league.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

The T-birds are also playing very very good hockey lately too. Currently 4th in conference.

I was listening to the game on the radio tonight. Another T-Birds victory.....clinching a playoff birth.

 

[gstommylee]

I was listening to the game on the radio tonight. Another T-Birds victory.....clinching a playoff birth.

Excellent.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Excellent.

They were playing in Everett. They beat Tri-City at home last night.

 

[gstommylee]

They were playing in Everett.

Wow not a easy place to play in too.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Wow not a easy place to play in too.

Come from behind victory too.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

 

[gstommylee]

You know i wonder if the team will rebrand to Kent Thunderbirds after Seattle gets a NHL team or would they say as Seattle

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

You know i wonder if the team will rebrand to Kent Thunderbirds after Seattle gets a NHL team

I hope not! All my gear says Seattle lol

 

[gstommylee]

I hope not! All my gear says Seattle lol

Its a good question though.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

Its a good question though.

I hadn't really worried about it. If they do they do.

 

[Mike Jones]

Of course i rather have local boy TJ Oshie on the team if St louis somehow leaves him unprotected than top pick in the draft.

If the expansion draft rules are the same as previous drafts the answer here is no - Oshie wouldn't be going to the new team. But as someone has already indicated there will be plenty of interesting players available if and when the time comes. If the draft were to be held this offseason I'd assume a lot of the proposed buyout candidates (discussed in threads on other boards) would be up for grabs as well as I think the new team would still have to reach the cap floor their first year.

 

[UtherGardener]

Well Pounder you are the Hockey guy and I am one the casual fans of hockey to be honest but I am an expansion junkie. What I was referring to was the possibility he tabled his funding of not tearing down the bowl in a box (beavers leaving grumbling thanks allen) for he might be looking into getting into the Rose with an NHL team.

 

[bluesfan94]

I would think the NHL would want Seattle to have a top talent player to get things going.

Of course i rather have local boy TJ Oshie on the team if St louis somehow leaves him unprotected than top pick in the draft.

They wouldn't leave him unprotected though.