GDT: Seattle Kraken Free Agent Frenzy Discussion

[majormajor]

I don't know who we would move out even to entertain EK on the roster. With less than 1M in available cap space, its going to take more than just moving Driedger.

True tat! Even having Schultz as part of any EK trade (provided that SJ is not on Schultz's 10 team no trade list) only frees up $3 million, so the Sharks would have to eat a lot of Karlsson's salary and / or take on several contracts just to make it work cap wise

The Sharks were rumored to be willing to retain down to $8.5m or so.

We can get up to $7.5m space without trouble: Driedger + Schultz + $1m in current space. But there's no clear way to get that extra bit. So many forwards have 10 team NTCs, who knows if they have San Jose on their lists. Nice climate at least, and a good place for people with money.

The amount of retention will heavily determine the cost. I think the cost would be Wright or maybe Ryker Evans. The Sharks might not be willing to retain down to $7.5m no matter the return. That's an unprecedented amount of retention.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

I don't know who we would move out even to entertain EK on the roster. With less than 1M in available cap space, its going to take more than just moving Driedger.

1) they'd have to retain at least 30%(would mean Karlsson at roughly $8M AAV)
2) Schultz and Driedger would be included
3) Maybe you do have to give up a guy like Wennberg, if they're willing to send back someone like Nico Sturm

Though, it might have to include a third team if Schultz doesn't want to go there etc. and I'm still not sure Francis is the guy to do something like that.

BTW: Ideally you'd trade Schwartz(instead of Wennberg) as well but that would cost you even more and he also has that NMC as well.

 

[kihei]

Love the Dunn deal, both in terms of salary (which I think is fair) and term (which I think is less problematic than anything longer).

 

[kihei]

I've become conflicted on the topic of acquiring Karlsson. I don't know if I'm using common sense or simply being attracted by a very enticing shiny object. But if Wennberg was was the main piece going back and we didn't have to give up a kid prospect, I'd do it. Probably one of the other teams would top such a package, though. But at that price I couldn't resist.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

I've become conflicted on the topic of acquiring Karlsson. I don't know if I'm using common sense or simply being attracted by a very enticing shiny object. But if Wennberg was was the main piece going back and we didn't have to give up a kid prospect, I'd do it. Probably one of the other teams would top such a package, though. But at that price I couldn't resist.

If San Jose would retain 30% the contracts of Driedger, Schultz and Megna would be enough to make the numbers work.

Though, there'd certainly at least our 2024 first rounder and some prospects going over there as well.

 

[rsteen]

They’d be better off working a “loan” agreement with a top European league.

The NHL-CHL agreement is that the only league these prospects can be loaned to is back to their CHL club. No AHL, no Europe.

 

[majormajor]

1) they'd have to retain at least 30%(would mean Karlsson at roughly $8M AAV)
2) Schultz and Driedger would be included
3) Maybe you do have to give up a guy like Wennberg, if they're willing to send back someone like Nico Sturm

Though, it might have to include a third team if Schultz doesn't want to go there etc. and I'm still not sure Francis is the guy to do something like that.

BTW: Ideally you'd trade Schwartz(instead of Wennberg) as well but that would cost you even more and he also has that NMC as well.

We can probably guess that we're stuck with that Schwartz contract for the duration.

He was known to be dinged up towards the end in St. Louis, so it feels like this should have been avoided.

I've become conflicted on the topic of acquiring Karlsson. I don't know if I'm using common sense or simply being attracted by a very enticing shiny object. But if Wennberg was was the main piece going back and we didn't have to give up a kid prospect, I'd do it. Probably one of the other teams would top such a package, though. But at that price I couldn't resist.

We'd definitely have to give up a top prospect. Maybe a 1st instead but I think it would be like Wright or Evans.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

The NHL-CHL agreement is that the only league these prospects can be loaned to is back to their CHL club. No AHL, no Europe.

That agreement needs fixing! It doesn't give a rats ass about what is best for the player and in the case of Wright him going back to the Windsor SpitFires or wherever he gets peddled to is garbage plain and simple.If I'm Wright I balk and head to Sweden anyways and f*** the CHL and their Archaic agreement

 

[Kevinsane]

That agreement needs fixing! It doesn't give a rats ass about what is best for the player and in the case of Wright him going back to the Windsor SpitFires or wherever he gets peddled to is garbage plain and simple.If I'm Wright I balk and head to Sweden anyways and f*** the CHL and their Archaic agreement

I concur. The agreement is unfair to exceptional players. Wright going back to junior is like us being told to use dial-up internet.

 

[rsteen]

That agreement needs fixing! It doesn't give a rats ass about what is best for the player and in the case of Wright him going back to the Windsor SpitFires or wherever he gets peddled to is garbage plain and simple.If I'm Wright I balk and head to Sweden anyways and f*** the CHL and their Archaic agreement

He has 40 pro games between NHL and AHL and he's 5 days short of being an overager. I don't think there's any more development for him in the OHL. Hopefully the OHL/CHL agrees with the Kraken to make an exception so he can go to Coachella.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

We can probably guess that we're stuck with that Schwartz contract for the duration.

He was known to be dinged up towards the end in St. Louis, so it feels like this should have been avoided.

Yeah, with the NMC, his inury problems and age I doubt a trade's going to happen.

We'd definitely have to give up a top prospect. Maybe a 1st instead but I think it would be like Wright or Evans.

Yeah, I don't think so.

Looking at the other teams mentioned(Pittsburgh, Toronto, Carolina) I doubt they'd be willing to give up their top prospect and I also don't see anyone of those with a Shane Wright(or even Evans) type of prospect in their system.

It's more likely something like Karlsson(about 30% retained) for cap fillers(Schultz, Driedger, X), 2024 1st round pick(could be top five protected) and some prospects like Goyette, Firkus, etc.

Though, Overall I'm not sure Francis would actually be pulling the trigger on a Karlsson deal and it might be just something for us fans to talk about and get through the summer where nothing else happens...

BTW: Toronto just had the arbitrator hand Samsonov a 1 year deal at $3.55M AAV and they're currently more than $12M over the cap.

On the other hand, it seems like Pittsburg might buy out Granlund and then needs to find a new home for Jeff Petry to try and create the cap room for a Karlsson trade.

 

[Gniwder]

That agreement needs fixing! It doesn't give a rats ass about what is best for the player and in the case of Wright him going back to the Windsor SpitFires or wherever he gets peddled to is garbage plain and simple.If I'm Wright I balk and head to Sweden anyways and f*** the CHL and their Archaic agreement

Each player signs a 5 year contract with the OHL. He's not going to Sweden. That is the last place I expect him to go because there is also an international trnasfer agreement.

https://blob.iihf.com/iihf-media/iihfmvc/media/downloads/regulations/2022/2022_iihf_international_transfer_regulations.pdf

So either the OHL grants him an exception or he plays in the OHL. The strongest argument Wright/Francis have is that he fell one game short of the 25 game rule, but at the same time the OHL can come back and say he would've had 25 games if Francis didn't assign him to the AHL for 8 games.

COVID created an unusual circumstance as far as the CHL/NHL transfer agreement. They should credit players when a season is cancelled by the league. Other than that, I don't see any reason for a major revision, the agreement has basically been the same for the past 20 years or more.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Each player signs a 5 year contract with the OHL. He's not going to Sweden. That is the last place I expect him to go because there is also an international trnasfer agreement.

https://blob.iihf.com/iihf-media/iihfmvc/media/downloads/regulations/2022/2022_iihf_international_transfer_regulations.pdf

So either the OHL grants him an exception or he plays in the OHL. The strongest argument Wright/Francis have is that he fell one game short of the 25 game rule, but at the same time the OHL can come back and say he would've had 25 games if Francis didn't assign him to the AHL for 8 games.

COVID created an unusual circumstance as far as the CHL/NHL transfer agreement. They should credit players when a season is cancelled by the league. Other than that, I don't see any reason for a major revision, the agreement has basically been the same for the past 20 years or more.

I see your points but I think its a horseshit rule and should be revised! Its like the CHL are holding him captive and that can't be good for his future or possibilities

 

[Gniwder]

I see your points but I think its a horseshit rule and should be revised! Its like the CHL are holding him captive and that can't be good for his future or possibilities

The entire point of the transfer agreement is to keep CHL players "captive". They can't afford to let all of their stars transfer to the AHL.

If it wasn't for the COVID cancelled season, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's the revisions I'd like to see, because the players didn't have a choice, the league cancelled the season, though other leagues played that season. I think that hurt his development more than anything else.

 

[gstommylee]

I see your points but I think its a horseshit rule and should be revised! Its like the CHL are holding him captive and that can't be good for his future or possibilities

Wright didn't have to sign a CHL contract with a OHL team...

 

[majormajor]

Wright didn't have to sign a CHL contract with a OHL team...

I'd argue you shouldn't be able to bind an adult by a contract they signed when they were 15.

 

[brewski420]

That whole problem is that cancelled year. Without that there would not be an issue. I do think/hope somehow Wright will be given some sort of waiver. I imagine his is an unique situation or are there other players/teams affected?

 

[Hocktopus]

Since Seattle is one of the rumored teams in on EK, I am curious if Carolina signing Tony DeAngelo today now takes them out of the Karlsson sweepstakes although I am assuming that the Pens are the front-runner now ahead of the Kraken

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

The entire point of the transfer agreement is to keep CHL players "captive". They can't afford to let all of their stars transfer to the AHL.

If it wasn't for the COVID cancelled season, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's the revisions I'd like to see, because the players didn't have a choice, the league cancelled the season, though other leagues played that season. I think that hurt his development more than anything else.

It did hurt his development for sure

 

[Gniwder]

It did hurt his development for sure

The flip side is that he might not have dropped to #4 if the season didn't get cancelled. It is what it is.

I'd argue you shouldn't be able to bind an adult by a contract they signed when they were 15.

As with any contract signed by a minor, the parent/guardian also signs. Without contracts the whole junior hockey structure collapses because players can switch leagues at a whim.

Anyways... example from the WHL:

https://cdn.chl.ca/archive/assets.chl.ca/app/uploads/chl-defence/2016/07/21101907/Affidavit-of-Kruise-Reddick-WHL.pdf

 

[Gniwder]

That whole problem is that cancelled year. Without that there would not be an issue. I do think/hope somehow Wright will be given some sort of waiver. I imagine his is an unique situation or are there other players/teams affected?

There are others impacted, like Kraken prospect Ty Nelson. That is one of the arguments against giving Wright an exemption.... because everyone else will be asking for one.

At the same time, the league chose to cancel the season, so they should be the one that takes a hit, not the players.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

At 19 the player should be able to determine what's the best developmental path for himself! And for Wright if he doesn't make the Kraken outta the gate it should be Coachella or Sweden and not Juniors where he's outgrown the League!Alas the I think Shaner will be with the Kraken even if its at first as the 13th Forward

 

[gstommylee]

At 19 the player should be able to determine what's the best developmental path for himself! And for Wright if he doesn't make the Kraken outta the gate it should be Coachella or Sweden and not Juniors where he's outgrown the League!Alas the I think Shaner will be with the Kraken even if its at first as the 13th Forward

He still has a valid contract with the OHL team that he signed after being drafted by his original OHL team. The agreement just enforcing that contract players signed unless certain conditions are met, being drafted by NHL and making roster or 4 years age 20. Europe isn't really much of an option unless the OHL team allows it.

99% of the players that go through the jr majors aren't ready at 18 yet alone at 19 to be in the NHL. Or even can make mature decisions for themselves.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

He still has a valid contract with the OHL team that he signed after being drafted by his original OHL team. The agreement just enforcing that contract players signed unless certain conditions are met, being drafted by NHL and making roster or 4 years age 20. Europe isn't really much of an option unless the OHL team allows it.

99% of the players that go through the jr majors aren't ready at 18 yet alone at 19 to be in the NHL. Or even can make mature decisions for themselves.

Let's agree to disagree and hope for Shaner that he makes the squad and plays regularly

 

[Irie]

He still has a valid contract with the OHL team that he signed after being drafted by his original OHL team. The agreement just enforcing that contract players signed unless certain conditions are met, being drafted by NHL and making roster or 4 years age 20. Europe isn't really much of an option unless the OHL team allows it.

99% of the players that go through the jr majors aren't ready at 18 yet alone at 19 to be in the NHL. Or even can make mature decisions for themselves.

So how do you explain the players that were in USHL, Europe, or NCAA when drafted that then sign contracts with CHL teams and can then go to the AHL any time they want? Some of them played in the CHL first. The only difference is which league they payed in last before being drafted, that dictates if they can play pro outside of the NHL in North America.

It is a total violation of their right to work and discriminates against a select group. No chance it holds up in any US court.