Seattle Arena discussion, vol. XII

[Headshot77]

I think we're all a little guilty of overvaluing Seattle for the NHL. I think it will be a fine market, but the league has done fine without Seattle and the market isn't nearly as "juiced" for hockey as we all assume, today's attendance of hockey fans notwithstanding.

I hope it happens, but the only groups involved in this while thing that are completely in on Seattle is OVG and the City of Seattle itself. I think everyone will come, but this isn't an NFL to LA situation where there's groups lined up to come. That isn't working out well so far anyway, but I digress.

Well, for the NHL, getting into Seattle is a boon because there are no American PNW teams and that leaves a massive hole in their national broadcast coverage. Seattle = more money on the next cable deal.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Funny people don't quite understand that even if hansen gets the street vacation there was zero guarantees he would be getting the NBA back to Seattle and chances are just as good that the NBA looks elsewhere cause of no arena being built.

Yet people intentional ignore that and say well key arena = NBA dead forever.

That is the point. The Key Arena RFP/MOU has most definitely been fast tracked especially in comparison to the SODO process. And in comparison to the normal Seattle political process.

True, but I think some are just jaded and still think there will be road blocks.

I think I am a bit higher than you that it gets done.

Yeah, I'm giving the .5% for something extraordinary to happen.

The Hockey COmmunity was HUGE in the public commentary. Multiple hockey organizations, charities that HOckey groups supports


Loved the comment from the director of Washingtion Wild (All Girls Hockey club), saying NHL = More Ice = More kids playing hockey.

Great to hear.

Exactly, Tommy. Let's remember the ties these guys - Leiweke and Bonderman - have to the NBA. They're not going to ignore them, that's for sure......

I am not saying OVG doesn't want the NBA at all. Just the opposite, that the NBA may not be ready for Seattle in this arrangement. You also have to consider what NBA teams are going for. Quite a hefty price tag for anyone, especially without total arena control. Just an opinion is all.

The NBA does not need Seattle. The NHL is a different story.

I think the NBA doesn't like Key, but doesn't like Hansen either. This is where one fo the core problems is.

Seattle does not need the NBA, and to those who think otherwise I suggest you have your memories & attitudes checked. That was an abusive relationship. Move on already. I know I know... I'm a "baaad Maing, cruel, insensitive to the history of the Sonics & importance/popularity of BB & the NBA in Seattle" but come on already. The NBA doesnt deserve you nor have they earned your support & loyalty. What they have earned, what you should be bestowing upon them is contempt, disgust.... Whats more, the absence, removal (hopefully permanent) of the NBA from the equation solidifies, clears the field for the NHL & Seattle ownership, not having to compete for corporate & consumer dollars with "the other" (and completely inferior) indoor major league sport.

I want to Seattle become a five sport town.

Well, for the NHL, getting into Seattle is a boon because there are no American PNW teams and that leaves a massive hole in their national broadcast coverage. Seattle = more money on the next cable deal.

They need Portland as well too at some point.

 

[gstommylee]

I think the NBA doesn't like Key, but doesn't like Hansen either. This is where one fo the core problems is.

I have to find the quote but Silver did say that the NBA is open to a Key arena remodel depending on the plans and how its done. He also said if you put enough $$$ to it you can basically make it look like brand new.

Basically the only thing that remains the same is the roof line everything else inside is completely difference. I think as long as the main issues that Silver has on the Key are addressed then he won't have a problem.

It ultimately still comes down to the 30 owners either agreeing to expand or agreeing to relocate a team to Seattle.

I think OVG can make it work for the NBA. The issue is the fans want everything now. They want a NBA group now they want OVG to give every single detail now regardless of how the NBA feels like it.

And that just not how its done. The NBA and the NHL can easily kill the remodel by making a simple phone call to the mayors office and say we refuse to even go near a remodel for of key arena.

We under OVG has a better shot at a NBA than Hansen does cause we have Boston Celtics minority owner involved and its easier to get a NBA team if your already have an in than being an outsider looking in.

IF Seattle wants to even have a shot at getting the NBA back they need to stop with the chicken or the egg and actually approve something that gets built which is exactly whats happening.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I have to find the quote but Silver did say that the NBA is open to a Key arena remodel depending on the plans and how its done. He also said if you put enough $$$ to it you can basically make it look like brand new.

Basically the only thing that remains the same is the roof line everything else inside is completely difference. I think as long as the main issues that Silver has on the Key are addressed then he won't have a problem.

It ultimately still comes down to the 30 owners either agreeing to expand or agreeing to relocate a team to Seattle.

I think OVG can make it work for the NBA. The issue is the fans want everything now. They want a NBA group now they want OVG to give every single detail now regardless of how the NBA feels like it.

And that just not how its done. The NBA and the NHL can easily kill the remodel by making a simple phone call to the mayors office and say we refuse to even go near a remodel for of key arena.

We under OVG has a better shot at a NBA than Hansen does cause we have Boston Celtics minority owner involved and its easier to get a NBA team if your already have an in than being an outsider looking in.

IF Seattle wants to even have a shot at getting the NBA back they need to stop with the chicken or the egg and actually approve something that gets built which is exactly whats happening.

Key isn't preferable but it can be done fast and Hansen broke the rules. He should have never messed with Sacramento. With OVG you have deep pockets and both the NHL and NBA team are owned by the same people.

 

[brewski420]

My preference would be along the lines of Killion that it be just the NHL in Seattle. My posts are obviously clouded that way. I will never go to an NBA game or even watch on TV and playing basketball was by far my favorite sport. I just hate the product right now. Loved it back in the day of Dr. J but not now.

Like BattleBorn has said maybe we overvalue Seattle as far as the NHL is concerned a little. I am positive it will flourish but would like them to get some years w/o the NBA.

 

[Llama19]

My preference would be along the lines of Killion that it be just the NHL in Seattle. My posts are obviously clouded that way. I will never go to an NBA game or even watch on TV and playing basketball was by far my favorite sport. I just hate the product right now. Loved it back in the day of Dr. J but not now.

I would agree with you...my Dad was a basketball referee back in the day...
use to go to games and played in school (but too short - )...
the changes in the physicality of game over the years have turned me off too...

Like BattleBorn has said maybe we overvalue Seattle as far as the NHL is concerned a little. I am positive it will flourish but would like them to get some years w/o the NBA.

I believe Seattle will be a much better market, today, for hockey...basketball...not so much...

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I would agree with you...my Dad was a basketball referee back in the day...
use to go to games and played in school (but too short - )...
the changes in the physicality of game over the years have turned me off too...



I believe Seattle will be a much better market, today, for hockey...basketball...not so much...

and what owner is willing to put up with a hockey team, only.... folks, it might be better for Seattle to forget pro hockey, and go with the G-League, I don't trust Seattle nor OVG to retrofit Key and hockey just doesn't cut it by itself... you need both or it's status quo just as Bennett predicted 9 years ago....

 

[brewski420]

and what owner is willing to put up with a hockey team, only.... folks, it might be better for Seattle to forget pro hockey, and go with the G-League, I don't trust Seattle nor OVG to retrofit Key and hockey just doesn't cut it by itself... you need both or it's status quo just as Bennett predicted 9 years ago....

Pittsburgh would say different. KC would say we don't need either. I would say Bennett wanted to be in OKC. Nothing more nothing less. But your opinion is duly noted.

 

[j1012]

My preference would be along the lines of Killion that it be just the NHL in Seattle. My posts are obviously clouded that way. I will never go to an NBA game or even watch on TV and playing basketball was by far my favorite sport. I just hate the product right now. Loved it back in the day of Dr. J but not now.

Like BattleBorn has said maybe we overvalue Seattle as far as the NHL is concerned a little. I am positive it will flourish but would like them to get some years w/o the NBA.

I think LV may be overvalued.

Seattle will be fine as a NHL town. They will get a winter sport back and if soccer proves it, any rivalry with Vancouver will amp the sports fans. I think the soccer community will embrace the sport too

 

[superdeluxe]

We took a look at the local Hockey presence felt at City Hall Yesterday:

https://www.sonicsrising.com/2017/9/18/16320534/seattle-nhl-ovg#comments

 

[tony d]

Yeah, Seattle probably prefers to have both hockey and basketball but I think just hockey will work there.

 

[superdeluxe]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leiweke-seattle-arena-will-look-awful-lot-like-air-canada-centre/

“What we’re doing is we’re keeping the outside of the arena as is because this is 1962 and the World’s Fair and so there’s a great deal of history and tradition but we’re going down and completely gutting the bowl and completely gutting the concourses and doubling the size of the arena to 660,000 square feet,†Leiweke explained. “Imagine, essentially, it will look an awful lot like the Air Canada Centre and like the Air Canada Centre we’ll have an atrium that essentially gets people down—so you’ll enter on the top level and then go down to the rest of the building and th bowl.â€

 

[Killion]

^^^ Very nice. So glad OVG has respected the past, importance of that building to Seattle & of its's historical significance. The Worlds Fair was a huge deal to the city, really put it on the map. The arena & Space Needle iconic structures, literally part of the cities identity & brand.

 

[snovalleyhockeyfan]

^^^ Very nice. So glad OVG has respected the past, importance of that building to Seattle & of its's historical significance. The Worlds Fair was a huge deal to the city, really put it on the map. The arena & Space Needle iconic structures, literally part of the cities identity & brand.

You do know the Needle is undergoing major renovations, don't you?

 

[kurt]

^^^ Very nice. So glad OVG has respected the past, importance of that building to Seattle & of its's historical significance. The Worlds Fair was a huge deal to the city, really put it on the map. The arena & Space Needle iconic structures, literally part of the cities identity & brand.

The Space Needle & Seattle Center overall, certainly. I don't know if the physical structure/appearance of Key Arena really has the same significance in the minds of residents though. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the preservation of the use of the overall area is important as far as the spirit of its use is concerned, but the physical building... I don't think many would lose sleep over it being cratered and totally rebuilt with something more modern/attractive/useful.

 

[Killion]

You do know the Needle is undergoing major renovations, don't you?

No I wasnt aware of that. No doubt it needs it, closing in 60.

The Space Needle & Seattle Center overall, certainly. I don't know if the physical structure/appearance of Key Arena really has the same significance in the minds of residents though. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the preservation of the use of the overall area is important as far as the spirit of its use is concerned, but the physical building... I don't think many would lose sleep over it being cratered and totally rebuilt with something more modern/attractive/useful.

Well, thats essentially what their doing kurt however they are keeping the basic roofline & facade which is what I was referring to, and something if I had a vote would be most insistent upon.

 

[kurt]

Well, thats essentially what their doing kurt however they are keeping the basic roofline & facade which is what I was referring to, and something if I had a vote would be most insistent upon.

Interesting - is that a widespread attitude about the overall shape/roof? I've never known any locals to have that sort of attachment before. My impression has always been that so long as something is inviting/appealing/etc, minimizes impacts on traffic, and preserves the overall vibe of the area, and meets the needs of the NHL and NBA, it would be welcomed with open arms. Bonus points if it somehow enhances public transportation options.

 

[ponder719]

Interesting - is that a widespread attitude about the overall shape/roof? I've never known any locals to have that sort of attachment before. My impression has always been that so long as something is inviting/appealing/etc, minimizes impacts on traffic, and preserves the overall vibe of the area, and meets the needs of the NHL and NBA, it would be welcomed with open arms. Bonus points if it somehow enhances public transportation options.

Enough of them had an attachment to get Key designated as a local historical landmark earlier this year.

(Separately, OVG is pursuing federal historical landmark status, so they'll qualify for tax credits.)

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...c-sloped-roof-get-historical-landmark-status/

 

[Killion]

Interesting - is that a widespread attitude about the overall shape/roof? I've never known any locals to have that sort of attachment before. My impression has always been that so long as something is inviting/appealing/etc, minimizes impacts on traffic, and preserves the overall vibe of the area, and meets the needs of the NHL and NBA, it would be welcomed with open arms. Bonus points if it somehow enhances public transportation options.

How "widespread" amongst the locals I dont know however certainly the Historical Society were very much worried about it, going for "historical designation" status. The outcome for which I cant recall. A few years ago & since this all began really, and before it was mentioned & brought up I raised the issue here amongst those advocating for Keys destruction, that I figured the Historical Society & others would absolutely stand in front of the wreckers ball if Key was to be demolished. That they'd press for historical status & designation, and that any alterations made would have to maintain the basic roof line & facade at minimum.

 

[IslesFan2017]

I don't think the NHL cares about travel time remotely as much as people think; I suspect their bigger issue is TV start times. EDM/CGY being in the Central as opposed to the Pacific doesn't make a bit of difference in that regard, since the same number of their games will be 1 hour off the optimal start time either way; putting Arizona in the Central, however, significantly increases the number of 2 hour off start times for teams in the Central, which is bad for viewing numbers.

The league may decide otherwise, but I suspect looking at this only in terms of crow flies travel distance is missing the mark.

That's true about the time zones and viewing numbers being important, I forgot about that. However, I still think that if Seattle gets a team, and one of the Oilers, Flames, or Coyotes gets moved to the Central Division, that team is not going to be thrilled about either losing its historic rival (in the case of the Oilers and Flames) or being relatively geographically isolated (Coyotes).

 

[gstommylee]

That's true about the time zones and viewing numbers being important, I forgot about that. However, I still think that if Seattle gets a team, and one of the Oilers, Flames, or Coyotes gets moved to the Central Division, that team is not going to be thrilled about either losing its historic rival (in the case of the Oilers and Flames) or being relatively geographically isolated (Coyotes).

The NHL cares about it more than you realize. They aren't going to split up the rivalry period.

 

[ponder719]

The NHL cares about it more than you realize. They aren't going to split up the rivalry period.

They certainly won't split up the Oilers and Flames. It's the argument that those teams absolutely must be aligned with the Canucks, TV start times and ratings be damned, that I question.

 

[MNNumbers]

They certainly won't split up the Oilers and Flames. It's the argument that those teams absolutely must be aligned with the Canucks, TV start times and ratings be damned, that I question.

I believe I agree with this. There are too many puzzle pieces for me to feel comfortable with a prediction presently, to wit...

The Flames are threatening a relocation
The Coyotes don't have a new arena deal
Seattle doesn't have an arena yet.

However, assuming that the Coyotes stay, and the Flames stay, and Seattle gets a team, I would expect an alignment like this:

Pacific: VAN, SEA, SJS, LAK, ANA, ARI, VGK, COL
Central: CGY, EDM, WPG, MIN, CHI, STL, DAL, NAS

Such an arrangement does the following:

Keeps VGK and ARI together, which satisfies both of those teams
Puts SEA with VAN, which is what both cities would want
Keeps CGY and EDM together
Keeps all Divisions spanning only 2 time zones

I can't see another way to do that.

 

[cutchemist42]

Anyone listen to the Leiweke interview on 590? I guess he spoke for 30mins.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

I believe I agree with this. There are too many puzzle pieces for me to feel comfortable with a prediction presently, to wit...

The Flames are threatening a relocation
The Coyotes don't have a new arena deal
Seattle doesn't have an arena yet.

However, assuming that the Coyotes stay, and the Flames stay, and Seattle gets a team, I would expect an alignment like this:

Pacific: VAN, SEA, SJS, LAK, ANA, ARI, VGK, COL
Central: CGY, EDM, WPG, MIN, CHI, STL, DAL, NAS

Such an arrangement does the following:

Keeps VGK and ARI together, which satisfies both of those teams
Puts SEA with VAN, which is what both cities would want
Keeps CGY and EDM together
Keeps all Divisions spanning only 2 time zones

I can't see another way to do that.

Yeah I only see 3 options if nobody relocates and Seattle is the 32nd team.

1.Calgary and Edmonton to the Central. Seattle and Colorado to the Pacific

-I personally think this would be the best but it involves the most reshuffling of teams in divisions so it might be tricky to get everyone involved to agree to this.

2.Seattle to the central

-If the Jets can play in the South-East the Stars in the Pacific etc I think Seattle could play in the central if the league can't come to a consensus on alignment.

3.Arizona to the central. Seattle to the Pacific

-I think this is the most likely to happen. Personally I wouldn't break up the Coyotes and Golden Knights/California teams though.