Season Officially Suspended -- COVID-19/Coronavirus Talk

[Ranksu]

I'm the same. I can't go off the property to walk on the nature trail at the top of the sand dune hill at the end of my sister's back yard, anymore, because too many people are walking outside. It's the same on the streets on the front side of the house. Too many people are walking on them, going to and from the beach. So, I have to stay in the back yard, climbing up and down the hill. At least, I can still get exercise. I'm still doing work, but it's difficult to concentrate on it. I'm worried about my cousins' kids returning to school in The Netherlands and Denmark. So far, in Denmark, only the kindergartners, and early elementary grades (1st and 2nd year) have returned to school, to smaller-group classes, spread over all the classrooms. The older kids are still working on computers at home. So far, it is working well. The Netherlands is more difficult, because the urban areas are so very crowded. I would be fine in my rural village of 300 people and 2,000 sheep, and 100 cows. We also have a lot of wind, so I could be outside most of the time without fear of catching the virus. Starting in July, Los Angeles gets inversions in which the air stays still. But, luckily, we are right at the ocean, where there usually is onshore wind in the morning and late afternoon, even in the summer. But, I don't see a chance to leave until there is some really super-strong theraputic, or the actual vaccine. Even then, I'm not sure I'd risk sitting on a filled airplane for 10+ hours, until a well-proven, vaccine is in my body.

How is it now for you, in Lappland? Are you going to work, physically, or are you working from home on a computer?

Netherlands and Denmark are fine, like Finland too. Your cousins are safe.

Yes, I'm working at my unite and no telecommute. My colleague was quarantined getting exposed for covid-19 patient and he worked from home. Some of us have been blessed staying safe, but its bit odd that we've totally different situation cross over the board (river) vs. Sweden. Nearest village (20km away) has so many covid-19 cases and people cross over board daily.

Our goverment and other scandinavia countries Norway and Denmark having discussion are we allowing Sweds to enter our counries when summer comes and our boards with them could be open. Ofc Swedish are bit pissed about it.

There was new study in Sweden that 7.3% people of Stockholm only has created antibody and and they are long way from getting herd immunity. Note they've openly admit spreading virus is ok and keeping everything open.


Första resultaten från pågående undersökning av antikroppar för covid-19-virus — Folkhälsomyndigheten

 

[TK 421]

Help me please...

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer extends Michigan stay home order to June 12

We knew that was coming, I'm actually surprised she only extended it to June. Probably all that biblical flooding keeping her too busy to access her full range of evil powers. The good news is she's probably also too busy to care about people using their boats.

 

[BlueDream]

Stolen joke best used for Trump already.

 

[Robb_K]

This notion that you can catch an airborne pathogen walking around outside or at the beach is ridiculous. I know some states have even made rules about outdoor activities. I don’t want to argue the point. I’m just telling you as someone who has studied respiratory disease my whole career, that’s baloney. Even for TB no one has ever tried to suggest there is a risk in that setting. It’s a good illustration of just how bizarre some of the recommendations have gotten.

Unless someone comes and coughs directly in your face, your risk outdoors is when you grab the doorknob to come back in, if someone sick grabbed it before you. The rapid diffusion of exhaled gas into the enormous volumes of air around you render any infective inoculation nil as soon as you breath it out.

I don’t have the desire to argue this point, and you’re free to not believe me. But it pains me to hear things like Robb being cooped up from going for a simple walk in the neighborhood.

I know that when the wind is blowing the droplets scatter very quickly. But, the last few days the nearby residential streets have been like a convention, with people walking towards and from the beach. But, I've seen that the local elementary school, at the end of our cul-de-sac, has its pedestrian gate to its parking lot open, but not the street's gate for cards to enter. The school is locked, with no one there. So, I can walk in the empty parking lot with no people there. I'm almost 75 years old, so I don't want to take any chances. But, really, my sister's backyard is nicer to walk, with its steep hill and dirt paths and plants, than the asphalt parking lot. And I get a better workout walking up and down the hill. But, on the much longer straightaways in the parking lot, I can do Olympic-style fast-walking, for a longer period, so I will alternate places. But, I'm not going to expose myself around a lot of other people -even though the risk is likely to be fairly low -there still is some risk I don't need to take.

 

[Ranksu]

Good news

 

[Robb_K]

Good news

Yes! VERY encouraging. It seems that there will AT THE VERY LEAST be a vaccine that even if it doesn't stop the virus from getting into people's cells, it will block them from its worst symptoms (e.g. having the attack on the respiratory system (and we hope) on the other organs (heart and kidneys and liver). We have yet to see if it will work similarly in Humans, but that is very likely given the amount of similarity in The Rhesus Monkeys' and Humans' DNA and RNA. The other unknown is whether or not there will be serius side effects on Humans.

Nevertheless, it looks VERY, VERY encouraging. After 2 - 3 more months we will get the results of the tests on Humans, and if all goes well heavy production will start on the best 1 or 2 vaccines.

 

[Reality Czech]

I am all for opening back up if everyone act responsible. Problem is the amount of people in this country who still believe this thing is a hoax. To many people who think social distancing and masks are the deep state taking 'mah freeedomm'. There is a chance the second wave is worst then the first because too many people have fallen for fake propaganda, hell I still have multiple people on my Facebook feed who think Covid is only pushed by the Dems...

These people are going to prolong everything

Well, considering how inconsistent the so-called experts have been throughout this whole thing I can see why some people are skeptical. Lots of people are SURE they know everything and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong. Perhaps you fall into this category as well. Some people still believe our rights and freedoms are important, like it or not, and it's alarming to see how easily they can just brush them aside in a time of crisis. People who think they are protesting "to get a haircut" are just ignorant. Of course it's stupid to blame Democrats for the virus, but it's more than fair to hold elected officials accountable for their response to it. Some states have pushed much further than necessary, and those are the states where protests were the biggest. No coincidence there. They warned us about overwhelmed hospitals but I have seen much more evidence of empty hospitals around the country rather than overwhelmed ones. Not sure I'd use the word hoax, but if you're not questioning some details of this then you just aren't paying attention.

Secondly, there is not universal agreement on the science of this. It's more than fair to question the accuracy of the tests and data, and there is still not complete agreement on the effectiveness of masks. Nearly every major medical authority said masks were not an effective defense for flu-like viruses before all of this, and even Fauci said as much in an interview from a couple of years ago. Yet over a couple of weeks somehow the public opinion shifted 180 degrees on the issue. So I guess they were all flat out wrong before or what? The data suggest to me that the VAST majority of deaths and serious cases are among the elderly and immune compromised, so it doesn't really make sense that everyone should have to be as careful as that vulnerable group. Yeah, I get it...it can be spread to them by others, but you could develop a strategy that protects the most vulnerable while also letting the low-risk group continue with their lives as much as possible. Give me one good reason why small businesses shouldn't be allowed to open as long as they follow the same protocol as the grocery stores. The rules seem so arbitrary at times.

But I don't want to get into another debate about these same issues over and over again. The important thing to keep in mind is that you will NEVER get everyone to agree on something, no matter how hard you try. This crisis has turned people against each other even more than they were before, and it's disappointing to see people try to make it a political issue. Some people are willing to accept more risk than others, and life always carries with it some degree of risk. The thing is, we could get hit by a second wave even if everyone follows the rules. Data from NY showed that most new cases were people who were supposedly following the stay-at-home orders, so maybe it's not even possible to completely avoid the virus. That is why the strategy was to flatten the curve yet some people have become obsessed and think that we can protect everyone if we just take enough precautions. People could wear masks and practice social distancing and still get sick. It's not a guarantee of anything. The only way society gets through a viral outbreak is via herd immunity. Also, we shouldn't 100% count on a vaccine because there is no guarantee that will be 100% effective either. Putting all of our eggs in the vaccine basket is not a wise strategy. I understand it's comforting to believe that a mask, social distancing and a yet-to-be-developed vaccine will keep you from getting sick but how can you assume that? If people are really that worried about getting sick maybe they should quarantine themselves rather than try and tell everyone else what they can and can't do.

Personally, I think this recovery will be much worse than it could have been because many people overreacted from the start and trusted inaccurate computer models like the Imperial College fiasco. We may save some from the virus, but then we will have millions unemployed, people facing health risks from missing doctors appointments and other massive economic problems. Bad things happen to governments that just try to print money to get out of a financial crisis. So while you are busy blaming certain people for not being careful enough, others will be blaming people like you if the "cure" ends up doing more damage than the virus does.

Now I remember why I avoided this thread for most of the last two months.

 

[Mike Liut]

Virginia Reports Record Jump In New Cases Two Weeks After Reopening

 

[Ranksu]

Where I live had biggest cases per population in Finland and all was reason from we are neighbors with Sweden and too many ppl moved to Sweden and back Finland and get infected.

Now we don't have any cases over 1.5 month and reason our government shutdown board. Thank God.

Now its opened again, but Sweds aren't welcome to come Finland.

 

[Chet Manly]

Virginia Reports Record Jump In New Cases Two Weeks After Reopening

Well, that's the "Catch 22" with herd immunity..... The herd has to contract the disease.

What's the stat on severe cases, hospitalizations, or deaths? Have those risen along the same curve?

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

In Ohio 70% of Covid fatalities have occurred in residents of nursing homes or long-term care facilities. In New Jersey nearly 1/10th of their entire nursing home population has died from Covid.

National figures are hard to obtain because not all states are reporting this, and some like NY are not reporting it as such if the person was transferred to a hospital and died there. But it looks like more than 1/2 of all deaths nationally have been nursing home deaths.

There is no question that public policies need to prioritize that group. The latest CDC data shows that the average age of death in the US exceeds the age for life expectancy. That helps to put into perspective who the vulnerable group is here.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Well, that's the "Catch 22" with herd immunity..... The herd has to contract the disease.

What's the stat on severe cases, hospitalizations, or deaths? Have those risen along the same curve?

I think when it’s large print and bold, with no link to actual data, you can ignore it. I glanced at Virginia’s numbers after seeing that. There is no spike in deaths or hospitalizations. It’s a shock headline someone made for effect, assuming you’ll suspend critical thinking.

 

[Ranksu]

100k death in USA officially. Well we know that is long away from true number.

USA:
Total Cases: 1,713,245 (+7,019 today)
Active Cases: 1,144,546
Critical Cases: 17,147
Deaths: 100,030 (+225 today)
Recoveries: 468,669
Total Tests: 15,271,109
Tests/1M Pop: 46,163

 

[simon IC]

Trump to 'sign executive order about social media'

 

[Mike Liut]

80% of the corona deaths in the US are people 65 and older and 80% of that total are from retirement/assisted living homes.

for 99% of the population, Corona is just a bad flu

 

[bleedblue1223]

There really needs to be more done aimed at the officials and politicians that allowed invididuals with COVID to return to nursing homes. People loved putting Cuomo and Whitmer on pedestals during this, but they've had some of the dumbest policies when it comes to this. That's why I hate when people use the argument, "you don't care about the lives", but at the same time support those politicians and what they are doing.

 

[Ranksu]

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

There really needs to be more done aimed at the officials and politicians that allowed invididuals with COVID to return to nursing homes. People loved putting Cuomo and Whitmer on pedestals during this, but they've had some of the dumbest policies when it comes to this. That's why I hate when people use the argument, "you don't care about the lives", but at the same time support those politicians and what they are doing.

New York’s handling of the nursing homes was criminal. It directly led to more deaths. Cuomo deserves his share of the blame for those unnecessary additional deaths. The media coverage of this specific issue shows the political bent of the coverage more transparently than anything else could.

 

[joe galiba]

in Missouri we have averaged 69 deaths per week from covid since the first death on march 18
we have averaged about 91 deaths per week in 2020 from flu/pneumonia

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

The CDC’s latest statistics show people under 50 in the US have a 99.97% survival rate from Covid. It’s plain to see in their most current published data. Why isn’t this being publicized? I have to dig to find places reporting this reality.

Note, this has nothing to do with actual spread or lockdown effects, simply a measure of the risk if you do catch it.

Meanwhile the US census bureau just released data showing that 55% of households with a child lost income from at least one adult due to the lockdowns. It’s mind-boggling that there are still fear mongers citing information we were using at the beginning of the pandemic, ignoring all that we’ve learned since then.

Did you know that New York has had less than 100 deaths in people who did not have a pre-existing condition?
Coronavirus Age, Sex, Demographics (COVID-19) - Worldometer
That’s certainly not how it has been portrayed.

I’m not saying those deaths are less important. I’m saying they are TARGETED and that our strategy also needs to be targeted now, especially since we expect it will need to cover several months more.

 

[bleedblue1223]

 

[Chet Manly]

That's why I hate when people use the argument, "you don't care about the lives", but at the same time support those politicians and what they are doing.

I think the "You don't care about lives" argument is adorable. Really shows someone's true hypocrisy, or just how blind they are to what's going on around them.

I DO care about those 100,000 people that have died. I really do. It sucks, and I wish we didn't lose a single patient to this. But you know who I care more about? the 40+ million lives that are struggling to put food on the table and pay their bills at the moment. Also, the millions of people in this country that require continuous medical attention, but haven't been receiving it because they're too scared to go out into the world. Let's just forget about them too, right?

 

[MissouriMook]

...
I’m not saying those deaths are less important. I’m saying they are TARGETED and that our strategy also needs to be targeted now, especially since we expect it will need to cover several months more.

This is the part of this whole ordeal that has me the most frustrated, but it is not surprising in that society/government tends to deal in one-size-fits-all solutions for a lot of universal issues. There has been plenty of time in the last three months to figure out who needs to be protected and, just as importantly, how to protect them without disrupting the people who don't need to be protected. Citizens of Wyoming don't need hurricane preparedness and citizens of Florida don't need blizzard preparedness.

 

[Thallis]

I think the "You don't care about lives" argument is adorable. Really shows someone's true hypocrisy, or just how blind they are to what's going on around them.

I DO care about those 100,000 people that have died. I really do. It sucks, and I wish we didn't lose a single patient to this. But you know who I care more about? the 40+ million lives that are struggling to put food on the table and pay their bills at the moment. Also, the millions of people in this country that require continuous medical attention, but haven't been receiving it because they're too scared to go out into the world. Let's just forget about them too, right?

Nobody's forgetting about them, they just don't want people to have to make the choice between their personal health and safety or their job(s) that barely make ends meet to begin with. The fact that a lot of people on unemployment right now are making more than they did at work is not an indictment of raising unemployment, it's an indictment of the minimum wage and working conditions for the average worker. The idea that we have to send people back to work when it isn't safe yet or they'll starve is a false dichotomy. We can absolutely implement policy to prevent both.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Nobody's forgetting about them, they just don't want people to have to make the choice between their personal health and safety or their job(s) that barely make ends meet to begin with. The fact that a lot of people on unemployment right now are making more than they did at work is not an indictment of raising unemployment, it's an indictment of the minimum wage and working conditions for the average worker. The idea that we have to send people back to work when it isn't safe yet or they'll starve is a false dichotomy. We can absolutely implement policy to prevent both.

It's definitely safe in many areas IMO.