Pre-Game Talk: Season 2021-2022 Pre-game thread

[Fistfullofbeer]

Hi all,

Sorry to bother your forum (I'm a Caps fan), but is there a reason why Driedger never starts? I know he was hurt for a while, but thought he was healthy now.

Thanks!

1. Driedger was injured till very recently.
2. Hakstol seems to be leaning towards Grubauer. I have a feeling this is to give him a chance to win some games and get his confidence back.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

 

[The Marquis]

Bad news, I will neither be liquored up or watching the first period of the game. Might even miss half of the second period. We'll see if my curse is lifted.

 

[Gniwder]

Bad news, I will neither be liquored up or watching the first period of the game. Might even miss half of the second period. We'll see if my curse is lifted.

I will be liquored up since it's Friday. Will probably watch parts of the game since I'm headed to the bar with some buddies, and I know the bar owner well enough he'll put the game on if I ask.

Not holding out much hope for this one, but it's been a while since I've watched an Avs game. I lived in that city when the team moved, so I'm watching more because of them....

I grew up around DC, so I might watch that game too. I gotta stop moving around so much, 7 different states so far.

 

[bossram]

Maybe Driedger can get going. They certainly need it. Despite playing fairly well, they've been getting let down by incredibly bad goaltending from Grubauer.

 

[gstommylee]

Maybe Driedger can get going. They certainly need it. Despite playing fairly well, they've been getting let down by incredibly bad goaltending from Grubauer.

So the defensive poor quality and lapse and lack of scoring at times gets a free pass and its 100% ALL grubauer's fault?

 

[bossram]

So the defensive poor quality and lapse and lack of scoring at times gets a free pass and its 100% ALL grubauer's fault?

Lmao dude. Seattle has not played poorly defensively. Per NST:

Shots Against per 60: 26.1 (lowest in NHL)
Chances Against per 60: 23.12 (2nd lowest)
High Danger Chances Against per 60: 8.37 (2nd lowest)

Seattle has been one of the best defensive teams in the league. They give up few shots and chances. Yeah, they need to score more. But you're never going to outscore .877 goaltending. It's nowhere near NHL calibre. So is Grubauer 100% of the problem? I guess, literally, no. Is he most of the problem thus far? Absolutely.

Why are you defending Grubauer? Why does he get a free pass from you? Why can't you just call a spade a spade.

 

[The Marquis]

The Lukan interview talked about how goaltenders have to adjust to a new system and often can take longer.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

The Caps have activated T.J. Oshie from the injured reserve list and he probably makes his return tomorrow playing in Seattle.

 

[Gniwder]

Lmao dude. Seattle has not played poorly defensively. Per NST:

Shots Against per 60: 26.1 (lowest in NHL)
Chances Against per 60: 23.12 (2nd lowest)
High Danger Chances Against per 60: 8.37 (2nd lowest)

Seattle has been one of the best defensive teams in the league. They give up few shots and chances. Yeah, they need to score more. But you're never going to outscore .877 goaltending. It's nowhere near NHL calibre. So is Grubauer 100% of the problem? I guess, literally, no. Is he most of the problem thus far? Absolutely.

Why are you defending Grubauer? Why does he get a free pass from you? Why can't you just call a spade a spade.

You can look at stats or you can watch the games. It's rare that you see a team like this where they have good possession numbers yet seem to have extreme brain farts that lead to goals against. This team allows too many odd man breaks and turns over the puck too much, just like the Caps first goal last night. Fortunately, the team was able to recover this time.

High danger chances are measured by shot location and if it was a rebound. It doesn't account for breakaways, odd man rushes, or stupid turnovers like last night.

Grubauer isn't playing at his best, but you can't put the blame entirely on a goalie when the team keeps having WTF moments within the first 5 minutes of a game. That can really impact the goalie mentally. How do you account for crap like this by mentioning stats? I'm not even sure this counts as a high danger chance based on shot location.

 

[bossram]

You can look at stats or you can watch the games. It's rare that you see a team like this where they have good possession numbers yet seem to have extreme brain farts that lead to goals against. This team allows too many odd man breaks and turns over the puck too much, just like the Caps first goal last night. Fortunately, the team was able to recover this time.

High danger chances are measured by shot location and if it was a rebound. It doesn't account for breakaways, odd man rushes, or stupid turnovers like last night.

Grubauer isn't playing at his best, but you can't put the blame entirely on a goalie when the team keeps having WTF moments within the first 5 minutes of a game. That can really impact the goalie mentally. How do you account for crap like this by mentioning stats? I'm not even sure this counts as a high danger chance based on shot location.

I do watch the games. And I can easily recall quite a few very easy, stoppable shots that Grubauer gaffed.

Every team makes mistakes. The goalie's job is to stop the puck when that happens. Yeah, I saw that Wilson goal. It's definitely a big mistake from the Settle defenseman, but again, that is a stoppable shot - right-hander on the right-side, no traffic. On that play, Grubauer actually anticipates it happening and has time to get set. He just gets beat. It seems like every chance like that, he's getting beat. Good goaltenders are gonna stop some of those.

I definitely think there are flaws with xG models, being there are variables (like pre-shot movement) that we don't have data for. If we had access to a model like SportLogiq, I don't think Grubauer would look as bad by their numbers. But there is no getting around Seattle's goaltending performance. It hasn't been good and has been the team's biggest weakness thus far.

 

[Gniwder]

I do watch the games. And I can easily recall quite a few very easy, stoppable shots that Grubauer gaffed.

Every team makes mistakes. The goalie's job is to stop the puck when that happens. Yeah, I saw that Wilson goal. It's definitely a big mistake from the Settle defenseman, but again, that is a stoppable shot - right-hander on the right-side, no traffic. On that play, Grubauer actually anticipates it happening and has time to get set. He just gets beat. It seems like every chance like that, he's getting beat. Good goaltenders are gonna stop some of those.

I definitely think there are flaws with xG models, being there are variables (like pre-shot movement) that we don't have data for. If we had access to a model like SportLogiq, I don't think Grubauer would look as bad by their numbers. But there is no getting around Seattle's goaltending performance. It hasn't been good and has been the team's biggest weakness thus far.

You give a shooter that much time and space and they'll put it top corner gloveside which is virtually every goalie's weak spot. Go look at the Jarnkrok goal, Cholo's giveaway results in a 2 on 1, Schultz catches up to the play but Cholo leaves Jarnkrok too much space and he puts it top corner from the same distance away. (There's a reason why I didn't want Cholo on this team.)

Generally speaking, stat people are people who never played the game. And even if we're talking stats, I'd rather see number of breakaways, odd man rushes, and uncovered shooters than "high danger chances". It's a complete garbage stat made up by someone who never played the game.

Edit: Even Carey Price gets beat gloveside if you give the shooter too much time and space. From bey9ond the dot unscreened.

 

[bossram]

You give a shooter that much time and space and they'll put it top corner gloveside which is virtually every goalie's weak spot. Go look at the Jarnkrok goal, Cholo's giveaway results in a 2 on 1, Schultz catches up to the play but Cholo leaves Jarnkrok too much space and he puts it top corner from the same distance away. (There's a reason why I didn't want Cholo on this team.)

Generally speaking, stat people are people who never played the game. And even if we're talking stats, I'd rather see number of breakaways, odd man rushes, and uncovered shooters than "high danger chances". It's a complete garbage stat made up by someone who never played the game.

Edit: Even Carey Price gets beat gloveside if you give the shooter too much time and space. From bey9ond the dot unscreened.

I have played hockey. Yes, goalies get beat gloveside. But if you want to be a good team, your goalie is going to need to make some saves he's not "supposed" to make. The Wilson goal you posted wasn't even "top-shelf" lmao.

It's hilarious how many mental gymnastics you'll go through to avoid saying a goalie is playing badly. Grubauer's been letting in bad angle wristers and floating point shots. Those aren't breakaways or 2-on-1s buddy.

And "generally speaking", the modellers who've created many of the stats cited and built prediction models watch waaaaay more hockey than any of us on this board.

 

[The Marquis]

They watch 10 hours of hockey a day?

 

[Gniwder]

I have played hockey. Yes, goalies get beat gloveside. But if you want to be a good team, your goalie is going to need to make some saves he's not "supposed" to make. The Wilson goal you posted wasn't even "top-shelf" lmao.

It's hilarious how many mental gymnastics you'll go through to avoid saying a goalie is playing badly. Grubauer's been letting in bad angle wristers and floating point shots. Those aren't breakaways or 2-on-1s buddy.

And "generally speaking", the modellers who've created many of the stats cited and built prediction models watch waaaaay more hockey than any of us on this board.

I'm not gonna say that Grubauer is playing great, because he isn't, but the other goalies haven't faired well with this defensive scheme either. You're just playing musical chairs on the Titanic. SV% is down for all 3 goalies, how that for stats? Is that just a coincidence? The other 2 are actually doing worse than Grubby, and that's why Hakstol is riding Grubby. That's what he does (according to Flyers fans here).

The other issue I see is that if you take a young inexperienced goalie and throw him into the fire, you could completely break him. It's happened many times before. While Grubby isn't much older, he has 4x as many NHL games as Daccord and Driedger combined.

Shuffling goalies around isn't gonna change anything, that's all I'm saying.

 

[bossram]

They watch 10 hours of hockey a day?

Corey Snadjzer literally watches every single game and tracks microstats for them.

 

[bossram]

I'm not gonna say that Grubauer is playing great, because he isn't, but the other goalies haven't faired well with this defensive scheme either. You're just playing musical chairs on the Titanic. SV% is down for all 3 goalies, how that for stats? Is that just a coincidence? The other 2 are actually doing worse than Grubby, and that's why Hakstol is riding Grubby. That's what he does (according to Flyers fans here).

The other issue I see is that if you take a young inexperienced goalie and throw him into the fire, you could completely break him. It's happened many times before. While Grubby isn't much older, he has 4x as many NHL games as Daccord and Driedger combined.

Shuffling goalies around isn't gonna change anything, that's all I'm saying.

The sample size on the other goalies is pretty minuscule.

If they had a goalie who could stop some of these blatantly easy shots that are getting by, the record would be better.

Would they be a "good" team? No. But they wouldn't be at the bottom of the table.

 

[Gniwder]

The sample size on the other goalies is pretty minuscule.

If they had a goalie who could stop some of these blatantly easy shots that are getting by, the record would be better.

Would they be a "good" team? No. But they wouldn't be at the bottom of the table.

I'm all for it because then you'll shut up once you realize they aren't any better, lol. D'Accord won't be called up but I'm guessing Driedger plays Friday because of B2B games on a long distance trip. Grubby gets Florida on Saturday. I can't imagine Hakstol would play Driedger against his old team, they know his weaknesses.

I expect both goalies to get lit up against two of the best teams in the league.

 

[The Marquis]

I'm not gonna say that Grubauer is playing great, because he isn't, but the other goalies haven't faired well with this defensive scheme either. You're just playing musical chairs on the Titanic. SV% is down for all 3 goalies, how that for stats? Is that just a coincidence? The other 2 are actually doing worse than Grubby, and that's why Hakstol is riding Grubby. That's what he does (according to Flyers fans here).

The other issue I see is that if you take a young inexperienced goalie and throw him into the fire, you could completely break him. It's happened many times before. While Grubby isn't much older, he has 4x as many NHL games as Daccord and Driedger combined.

Shuffling goalies around isn't gonna change anything, that's all I'm saying.

You high! You cool tho.

 

[The Marquis]

Corey Snadjzer literally watches every single game and tracks microstats for them.

well, that’s crazy. I watch every Kraken, Portland Winterhawks, Wenatchee Wild and maybe a random game a day otherwise, maybe two if none of those are playing. Unless pro wrestling is on. So like I rule and stuff.

 

[Gniwder]

The sample size on the other goalies is pretty minuscule.

If they had a goalie who could stop some of these blatantly easy shots that are getting by, the record would be better.

Would they be a "good" team? No. But they wouldn't be at the bottom of the table.

BTW, if you're expecting 2 goalies that were playing in the ECHL 2 years ago to bail this team out, you need to pass around whatever you're smoking because it's gotta be pretty good.

 

[bossram]

I'm all for it because then you'll shut up once you realize they aren't any better, lol. D'Accord won't be called up but I'm guessing Driedger plays Friday because of B2B games on a long distance trip. Grubby gets Florida on Saturday. I can't imagine Hakstol would play Driedger against his old team, they know his weaknesses.

I expect both goalies to get lit up against two of the best teams in the league.

BTW, if you're expecting 2 goalies that were playing in the ECHL 2 years ago to bail this team out, you need to pass around whatever you're smoking because it's gotta be pretty good.

Speaking of "shutting up", you're the one who quoted the same post twice lmao.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore. Not even about Gru's performance. Now you're saying that I think Driedger and D'Accord would save the team, when I never said anything remotely similar. I literally said they've been bad too. But that the sample size is non-existent.

What are you smoking?

 

[Gniwder]

Speaking of "shutting up", you're the one who quoted the same post twice lmao.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore. Not even about Gru's performance. Now you're saying that I think Driedger and D'Accord would save the team, when I never said anything remotely similar. I literally said they've been bad too. But that the sample size is non-existent.

What are you smoking?

You're the one who wanted Dreidger to play. Unfortunately there are only 2 alternatives to Grubauer, and none of them will compensate for defensive lapses.

All I know is I haven't seen a team allow so many odd man breaks, and I watch the Wings a lot, even during their epic last place finish couple of seasons ago.

 

[bossram]

You're the one who wanted Dreidger to play. Unfortunately there are only 2 alternatives to Grubauer, and none of them will compensate for defensive lapses.

All I know is I haven't seen a team allow so many odd man breaks, and I watch the Wings a lot, even during their epic last place finish couple of seasons ago.

My literal, exact words were, "Maybe Driedger can get going. The team certainly needs it". Seems like a pretty innocuous statement that you've decided to get all huffy about, and declare that I am so pro-Driedger and think he should be playing when I've never even stated anything like that.

 

[The Marquis]

I am the guy. Put me in coach!