Scouting the Possible Contenders and what they could use from Detroit.

SirloinUB

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Aug 20, 2010
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Helm is a no-go. Oilers don't have much need for Helm - even at half-price. Especially next year.

I disagree. Helm would be their 6th highest scoring forward in points and goals. He is a plus player on the team with the worst goal differential in the league and has been proven to be a valued player by ken Holland. He still has speed and can play a variety of roles from bottom 6 grinder to complimentary winger. His playoff experience would also be valued by the relatively inexperienced oilers.

at 1.8 (50% retained) he can easily fit into the oilers 23 million of pending cap space. Their only notable RFAs are Nurse and to a lesser extent Bear.

Helm is overpaid for what he is but he has been one of our most reliable players this season and still a good bottom 6 NHL player. At half his salary he would be a good pick up for a team like Edmonton.

As a hard working veteran the bigger question is if Yzerman would even entertain trading him. If he does, teams will definitely take a look. For the right price the oilers will be at the top of that list. He'd be an upgrade on almost every single one of their bottom 6 forwards
 
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GBFP

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Sep 24, 2009
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Winnipeg has said they'd move their first. Any need for AA there?
 

Snuggs

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Jun 24, 2018
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Winnipeg has said they'd move their first. Any need for AA there?

IF Yzerman could actually do the deal, then yes absolutely!

I really wish AA could net a 1st round pick. Not likely though, not unless it's on TDL day and it's to a team that's missed out on players. There's just other players available right now that could be had for a 1st round pick over AA.
 
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Snuggs

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Jun 24, 2018
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I think Helm has something to add to the Oilers. Especially on the PK. But he feels more like a settlement than a real trade. If they're talking to the Wings for a bottom 6 upgrade I think it's going to be for Luke Glendening. Any team trading for Helm will ask for a lot of salary retention(50%+) with a lower round pick exchanged, (5th-7th), imo. I think it's dreaming to consider a 3rd round pick for Helm.

Which honestly, hey, fine, If Yzerman could milk a 7th round pick and open a roster spot up next year with a little cap relief even, fine, do a deal. I'm not sure one will come around though honestly.
 

MBH

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I disagree. Helm would be their 6th highest scoring forward in points and goals. He is a plus player on the team with the worst goal differential in the league and has been proven to be a valued player by ken Holland. He still has speed and can play a variety of roles from bottom 6 grinder to complimentary winger. His playoff experience would also be valued by the relatively inexperienced oilers.

at 1.8 (50% retained) he can easily fit into the oilers 23 million of pending cap space. Their only notable RFAs are Nurse and to a lesser extent Bear.

Helm is overpaid for what he is but he has been one of our most reliable players this season and still a good bottom 6 NHL player. At half his salary he would be a good pick up for a team like Edmonton.

As a hard working veteran the bigger question is if Yzerman would even entertain trading him. If he does, teams will definitely take a look. For the right price the oilers will be at the top of that list. He'd be an upgrade on almost every single one of their bottom 6 forwards

Disagree,
The list of teams interested in Helm will be short.
The Oil don't have much cap space.
Right now the Oil might hang on to playoff spot. If they do decide to go get someone, it's highly unlikely they'd waste assets on Helm.
The only reason everyone talks about Helm is the Holland connection. I think we might see that next year when he signs a 3 year, $1.6M contract with the Oilers.
But Holland's not going to give away draft picks or prospects for a fourth liner. Not for an Oiler team that's been struggling.
 

Mlotek

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Feb 28, 2017
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Carey Price was the 3rd guy I was considering in that exception group. I don't know, I think I am remembering the Fleury rollercoaster here in Pittsburgh. He had that 4 year stretch where he was under .900 in the playoffs and I thought he was hamstringing that franchise from winning a Cup with 2 of the best players of their generation. Then he goes to Vegas and all of a sudden he's just good again. And he was a #1 overall freaking pick.

Hmmm, are we really blaming Fleury for Pittsburgh deciding not defense is not necessary when they can just outscore their opponents?

Is the Pittsburgh-Philadelphia series of 2012 where neither team bothered playing and D on the goalies?

As a refresher. Just look at that awful coverage by the Pens.


The big problem during that stretch of playoffs where Fleury had bad numbers was more fault of how the team played than the goalie. Run and gun.
 

SirloinUB

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Aug 20, 2010
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Disagree,
The list of teams interested in Helm will be short.
The Oil don't have much cap space.
Right now the Oil might hang on to playoff spot. If they do decide to go get someone, it's highly unlikely they'd waste assets on Helm.
The only reason everyone talks about Helm is the Holland connection. I think we might see that next year when he signs a 3 year, $1.6M contract with the Oilers.
But Holland's not going to give away draft picks or prospects for a fourth liner. Not for an Oiler team that's been struggling.

or maybe team would be interested, because he is still a good player. my expectations in regards to his return would be low.

look, you may be right in the end, put honestly your position is baseless. helm is a good bottom 6. The fact that he is overpaid does limit the market but under two million salary teams would be interested.
 
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Snuggs

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Jun 24, 2018
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Regarding the paper transactions...
Do you think Yzerman is saving cap space to take on a contract?

I suggested possibly Tyler Johnson at some point, no real dots to connect though other than just fit. Red Wings need 2nd line scoring. Lighting could take on AA/Cholowski/Hirose and get the cap relief with a small net of prospects/players. It's a bigger gamble than we've seen Yzerman take currently though.
 

nhlisawesome

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Oct 26, 2019
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Larkin, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Zadina and Anthanisiou are unfortunately not a core to build a playoff caliber team around. Take an honest look at these guys and how they've been carrying the team. In my opinion, not a single player in our system currently is untradeable. Maybe Moritz Seider because we need an actual good defenceman.
 
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Squirrel in the Hole

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Larkin, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Zadina and Anthanisiou are unfortunately not a core to build a playoff caliber team around. Take an honest look at these guys and how they've been carrying the team. In my opinion, not a single player in our system currently is untradeable. Maybe Moritz Seider because we need an actual good defenceman.
Of those four, I'd only look at moving AA or Mantha. AA for the right price because he needs a new start. Mantha, because for his style of play, he's pretty injury prone. Players like that usually have a short shelf life as well. Zadina or Fabbri could hold that spot on the first line with Larkin and Bertuzzi. It would, of course, have to be the right price.
 

roman star

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Feb 17, 2019
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The Oilers have Adam Larsson, Caleb Jones and Ethan Bear as right-handed defensemen. I doubt they pine for Mike Green.
Cap hit wise, it would be really tough making Green fit.

Helm is a no-go. Oilers don't have much need for Helm - even at half-price. Especially next year.
you got it all figured out about everything so theres no need trying to have a conversation with you
 

LeighDx59

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Nov 23, 2011
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If Nashville turns it around and is at least closer to a Playoff spot by the deadline, I could see Green and potentially Athanasiou being a fit there. The only issue would be the price because after a few seasons of trading draft picks, im sure they wouldnt want to give too much. Plus we would likely have to acquire Granlund or Turris from them. Which, I know Turris is a gamble, but I feel like his decline was the fault of the system Lavy had in place and injuries last season. Didn't Turris have good chemistry with Mantha with Canada last year? The only issue would be it being a big gamble considering his contract.
 

ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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IMO, the Wings moving a goalie before this seasons deadline seems unrealistic unless:

A. They're getting a goalie back in the trade - Either a throw in the Wings can use in the NHL behind whoever remains of Howard or Bernier, or a throw in/prospect that can start in GR if they decide to call up Pickard to use as #2 for the rest of the year.
B. They plan to or have already acquired a goalie in another trade before the deadline - Same premise as above, but they came in a separate deal either in a deal for a skater they're trading as well or specifically to acquire a throw away/depth goalie from another team (of which Yzerman's former team has a wealth of, including one taking up NHL cap space)
C. They (or GR) sign someone to replace Pickard in GR so he can finish the year on the NHL roster, and GR can stay in mix for the AHL playoffs
D. GR has no hope of making the playoffs, so they're fine calling up Pickard for the rest of the year and letting whoever's still there split the rest of the starts in GR
E. Someone has offered a ridiculous overpayment for Howard or Bernier

I don't see a whole lot of contenders wanting Bernier because of his salary and term. Especially Toronto, who will likely have to roll with another round of "waiver goalie roulette" next year to have enough space to re-sign/replace all of the forwards and dmen that are free agents this summer.

I also don't see Yzerman tanking GR's playoff hopes so he can get a late 3rd for Bernier.

With Howard, you're looking at something like Kinkaid's 5th rounder three years out or the Flyers and Oilers Stolarz for Talbot, and that would be with Howard at full retention.

As for some of the skaters that could move, some of the return predictions here seem super pessimistic...

Here are some comparables for bottom of the barrel D that was traded before last years deadline:

NJ traded to 35YO rental D Ben Lovejoy to Dallas for 24YO D Connor Carrick and the Stars 2019 3rd (that ended up at #80OA)
Sabres traded 26YO Nathan Beaulieu (basically a rental as an overpaid RFA unlikely to get qualified) to the Jets for the Jets' 2019 6th (#175OA)
Ducks sent 28YO rental Michael Del Zotto to the Blues for the Blues 2019 6th (#186OA) - Del Zotto had been traded to the Ducks earlier in the year by the Canucks for Luke Schenn and a 2020 7th
Kings sent 27YO rental Oscar Fantenberg to the Flames for a conditional 3rd or 4th in 2020 based on where the Flames end up in the playoffs and Fantenberg playing in atleast 50% of those games. The Kings ended up with the 4th.
Boston sent 32YO rental Adam McQuaid to the Jackets for throw in contract Julius Bergman and Jackets 4th and 7th picks in 2019 (#112 and #205)

Green - Even with his down season, he is a clear cut above all of those guys, so if all he returns is a 3rd or a 4th, I'd be kind of disappointed in Yzerman....

That being said, I think what might hurt return on Green is another longterm injury, or him getting weirdly picky with his 10 team no trade list by listing a bunch of contenders that might actually have interest... Remember two years ago, he reportedly nixed a potential deal to the Leafs, and really only seemed open to going to Tampa or back to Washington. Now two years older, more broken and with a bigger family, I can't imagine he's much more open than he was then. Since players usually aren't big on going to Edmonton, I'd be surprised if Green wanted to go there, despite the familiar face running the show there.

Daley - I'd imagine he's somewhere in the Lovejoy/McQuaid return category, especially if he's healthy at the deadline and even more so if the Wings retain. I think the fit for Daley is a spare vet D for a playoff team and/or an insurance policy for a playoff team that has some young D they may be worried about trusting in the playoffs.

Helm - IMO, he's well above the "conditional 7th" territory, especially if the Wings retain enough to get his cap hit at least below $3M if not more. That said, I don't really see Helm moving until the offseason or next years deadline.

Glendening - Probably at least a 2nd or a 2nd+ depending on how many teams are trying to get him

I have to think Yzerman will try to get the NHL roster down to 12F and 6D from guys that are currently on the roster. That way they don't have to burn a call up on someone from GR to fill the roster, but can give a whole bunch guys looks using the perpetually banged up nature of several of their vets as an excuse to give a handful of different guys looks using emergency recall. I also wouldn't be surprised if Yzerman cleared some room because he knows he'll be bringing in an undrafted college UFA or two to burn their first ELC year ala Hirose and Kuffner.
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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Bobrovsky is 31. From that same draft year, the top 5 picks were:

1) Kane
2) van Reimsdyk
3) Turris
4) Hickey
5) Alzner

If you took the top 2 defenders, neither are even in the NHL today. Give me Bob over anyone but Kane on that list easy.

"Yeah, this is exactly why I do not want to draft a defender in the top 5..." What I'm saying is, it's pretty easy to look at a goalie who falls off and go, "See! Risky!" and completely forget about the many other top 5 prospects that flame out before 30.

I get your point, I truly do. However, I would want no part of Bob's current contract and play if we were in contention. To me, if you are giving 10 million or more to a goalie, they have to be in the Vezina race every year, even if that means being 10th in votes on a given year. They also have to have a great playoff record, which Bob doesn't, as he is all over the map in the playoffs, kind of like his regular season career. Some years, he is really good, and then there are times when he seems like he is a backup at best.
 

Oddbob

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Jan 21, 2016
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Idk honestly, I don't think it'd be a priority. Not suggesting that, but, I can definitely see Florida making a deal for a goalie if the price was right. Why? Cause there 10 million dollar goalie isn't exactly cutting it right now.

I mean if you're the Panthers GM, and the only goalie deal you had on the line was Bernier for a 4th round pick plus prospect... You really not doing it? You gonna roll with the current back up goalies?

Assuming Bernier keeps playing well... depending on the cost I can see teams interested. Especially teams with a struggling goalie or struggling goalie tandem. Idk if it's any teams major priority though honestly to acquire a back up goalie... lol. Just if the price is right and the situation calls for it.

What would really get things interesting is if a team in the hunt actually suffered a injury to their starting goalie.

They are kind of screwed if Bob doesn't turn it around though. What are they going to do with him, as no one is touching that contract, until maybe the last or 2nd last year of it, which means they would have 10 mil + the money on a goalie that is good enough for them to win.
 

ShelbyZ

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Apr 8, 2015
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They are kind of screwed if Bob doesn't turn it around though. What are they going to do with him, as no one is touching that contract, until maybe the last or 2nd last year of it, which means they would have 10 mil + the money on a goalie that is good enough for them to win.

Maybe Florida figured Columbus would happily take him back like the Panthers did with Luongo when the Canucks were in a similar bind...
 

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