Confirmed with Link: Schultz signs 1yr/3.9M

[Replacement*]

I don't get the sense anyone is actually comparing him to Keith. Just pointing out the fact that sometimes players take time to fully develop. Schultz might be one of those players. He might not be. But there's no sense in just giving up on him.

You've often pointed out in the past (with both Gagner and Yakupov) that they were never really given ideal linemates to play with. It obviously hurt their development. But look up a few posts and see who Schultz has been playing with his entire career. He's never played with an established top 4 d-man in his life.

And maybe he has lacked passion the last couple of years. But can you blame him with how bad the team has been since he joined the league? It's effected all of these guys who have been here long enough.

Hopefully a coach that isn't Dallas Eakins, a new system and a new perspective will help him develop into the player he showed he could be in his first professional year.

I never said a comparison was made. But why even make the reference. Hands up anybody who thinks Schultz reminds them of Keith in any way or fashion.

Heres what they have in common. They are bipedal, wear skates in the sport they are in and play something called Defense. Or at least one of them does.

In anycase any such reference is simple distortion. People go "wow, 3 people on Earth said that about Keith and then its somehow used as reference point on how Schultz, or anybody, really in the world, shouldn't be observed on what they presently are.

Because a few dunderheads knowing nothing reveals nothing other than a few dunderheads knowing nothing. That's it. Its not meaningful info pertaining in any way to discussion on Schultz, it doesn't really apply, its hardly even interesting.

My critique in what Schultz is fatally lacking as a D is quite clear and its not necessarily an attribute someone learns. How do you learn to be aggressive, abrasive, to have a chip on your shoulder and get in peoples grill? if Multi million buck contracts haven't instilled that degree of tenacity I doubt anything will.

Some players just don't have the disposition for the sport, and position they play at the NHL level. if Schultz is a winger there can be room for such talent provided you have a balanced line up. But as a D the Grit/Physicality/Aggression he lacks is a CRITICAL deficit.

 

[Master Lok]

I never said a comparison was made. But why even make the reference. Hands up anybody who thinks Schultz reminds them of Keith in any way or fashion.

Heres what they have in common. They are bipedal, wear skates in the sport they are in and play something called Defense. Or at least one of them does.

In anycase any such reference is simple distortion. People go "wow, 3 people on Earth said that about Keith and then its somehow used as reference point on how Schultz, or anybody, really in the world, shouldn't be observed on what they presently are.

Because a few dunderheads knowing nothing reveals nothing other than a few dunderheads knowing nothing. That's it. Its not meaningful info pertaining in any way to discussion on Schultz, it doesn't really apply, its hardly even interesting.

Agreed 100%.

Using Keith as an example of a defenseman who took some time to pan out... ok, so do most defensemen e.g. Chris Pronger. So What? This not new information. Instead it implies if Keith had troubles developing..., just give some time to Schultz and he could be as good as Keith! Maybe we should also use the example of Cam Barker! Keith has no bearing upon Schultz other than at age 25, he can still improve.

 

[oobga]

Agreed 100%.

Using Keith as an example of a defenseman who took some time to pan out... ok, so do most defensemen e.g. Chris Pronger. So What? This not new information. Instead it implies if Keith had troubles developing..., just give some time to Schultz and he could be as good as Keith! Maybe we should also use the example of Cam Barker! Keith has no bearing upon Schultz other than at age 25, he can still improve.

I think the comparison was more showing that a few Chicago fans thought Keith was crap at one point and now they look dumb. Like people bashing Schultz now will look dumb one day. Only issue is, at the time that Keith thread was made, those fans were already dumb. Keith was playing against top competition and holding his own before that thread was made, and that season of the thread he put up 32 points and +30 playing the toughest minutes of any Chicago D and 25+ mins a night, which was his 3rd NHL season. Not a surprise that thread only got 2 pages which included some joking offers from other teams fans who knew Keith was a stud. Really bad comparison no matter how you look at it. Such different players. Keith is like a pitbull in his own end, relentlessly trying to get that puck away from anyone. Schultz is the complete opposite.

 

[White Water Kayker]

Should have dedicated your time to 5 am practices, 2 a day workouts, financially burdening your parents, and balancing school during your youth rather than whatever you did.

I don't like when people compare themselves to professional athletes. Regardless of how "gifted" you perceive them to be, you don't join a 700 player league where there are over 7 billion people on earth unless you gave a damn. There isn't some conspiracy where the world is unfair and hard-working, blue collar guys like you continue to get screwed while a bunch of undeserving people get all these advantages. Rewards are earned. Schultz worked hard to be where he is today.

Justin Schultz gave a damn, and is part of the 0.0000001% of individuals who earned their spot in the National hockey league. He didn't entitle himself to a spot. He worked years and and years to get the job that you think he's "half-assing". He has earned the privledge of wasting Daryl Katz money over the past 2 seasons.

Don't hate. Emulate. If you see something you like, go do it too.

You my friend, have it so very wrong.

Regardless of whether or not you think he "deserves" some sort of respect for getting up early to chase some vulcanized rubber around a rink, even taken within the context of the NHL, I find it remarkable that this guy can command a $3.8 million dollar salary given his performance thus far.

He's been a massive failure to date, and to think he gets another year to "prove" himself at that price point is somewhere between nauseating and vomit inducing for me. But that has more to do with the economics of sport and societal values than Justin himself. "Earned," is a pretty heavy word, and imho he has not earned much to date, let alone that amount.

And fwiw, you have no idea what my work is, what I make, or where I come from, so please lay off on the assumptions while you rant. It only makes you look bad.

 

[rasarhdasd]

I know what the poster was trying to say by bringing up the Keith thread with not giving up on young defensemen, but it's just not even the same realm of player or situation. HF was just dumb, Keith was a great player and pushed the shots in favour for Chicago while leading them in ice time, facing top 4, I think top 3, competition on the team while getting average zone starts.

Schultz faced the easiest competition possible and was given a severe offensive zone start and didn't really do much. Don't get your hopes up.

 

[PBandJ]

Hope the rumors he's unhappy with his play are true. He's got this year being overpaid to prove he's an NHL talent.

 

[Oilhawks]

The Keith reference above is ridiculous. At no point was Duncan Keith timid and averse to physical play. In fact while younger he tended to have much more of a penchant for dirty play. Would get a stick or punch in often enough and definitely engaged opponents that way.

Keith could never be confused with somebody that didn't welcome a physical aspect of the game. He was a gamer even if there were moments of struggle putting it together at this level. Keith had to learn to settle himself down. The anger, getting into it, getting aggressive came natural to his nature.

My main critique of Schultz is that he often shy's away from contact, does not like the physical requirement, and plays a chronically soft game. As a person it also appears that he lacks some key ingredients of anger, passion, that make or break good NHL D at least in the WC.

Most people don't learn how to get in someones grill and to be comfortable doing that all the time. Schultz is a nice guy, and is on the ice, but as a D, and in the world of NHL WC hockey that's a problem. Will he become different? I really doubt he has that inside himself where he will get to the point of bringing anger, passion, or even physicality into his role. Theres very little that is unpleasant about Justin Schultz. Excepting that its an ingredient of ugly that often makes good WC D.

That thread was an extreme example, and many of the worst posters in it have conveniently moved on (or made new accounts out of shame?). I would agree that Keith never was adverse to physical play, but there were certainly other question marks during his development. He has certainly silenced most of the haters. However, that fanbase (as are many others) is quick to jump on hate 'bandwagons' so to speak, with somewhat harsh critiques of Keith, Kane, Toews, Seabrook, especially Coach Q (there is a very vocal group that has wanted him fired numerous times throughout the middle of every cup run) being pretty common even recently. Granted, the expectations of this group are obviously much higher than other teams, understandably.

My point was not to compare or claim that the situation or player is the same or even similar, but to point out that some players need more time than others.

Schultz may never be more than a bottom pairing player / AHL tweener, and honestly, signs are pointing that way, but hopefully not. This team could use some lucky bounces in players panning out after disappointment. The schadenfreude mentality by some posters on here, however, seems to be to hope for the worst, and revel in the mediocrity just to be 'right'.

 

[Replacement*]

That thread was an extreme example, and many of the worst posters in it have conveniently moved on (or made new accounts out of shame?). I would agree that Keith never was adverse to physical play, but there were certainly other question marks during his development. He has certainly silenced most of the haters. However, that fanbase (as are many others) is quick to jump on hate 'bandwagons' so to speak, with somewhat harsh critiques of Keith, Kane, Toews, Seabrook, especially Coach Q (there is a very vocal group that has wanted him fired numerous times throughout the middle of every cup run) being pretty common even recently. Granted, the expectations of this group are obviously much higher than other teams, understandably.

My point was not to compare or claim that the situation or player is the same or even similar, but to point out that some players need more time than others.

Schultz may never be more than a bottom pairing player / AHL tweener, and honestly, signs are pointing that way, but hopefully not. This team could use some lucky bounces in players panning out after disappointment. The schadenfreude mentality by some posters on here, however, seems to be to hope for the worst, and revel in the mediocrity just to be 'right'.

How many things are you going to fabricate in the thread? How do you think the above is appropriate? My reply was just to the effect that the reference was silly. I wasn't maintaining or saying anything about you, or other posters which is crossing the line.

To equate that posters hope he fails just because they realize JS lacks the aggression, physicality, toughness to be a good WC D is kind of a big stretch. He's not going to be bringing the snarly now at age 25 and with multiple yrs experience in the league already. if that was in his repertoire at any point here lets see it.
To hell with being right. But unfortunately I will be.

JS is talented, he has skill, but it takes some mean streak to be an effective WC D. he just doesn't possess that. That is my point which I can't express clearer.

 

[Oilhawks]

How many things are you going to fabricate in the thread? How do you think the above is appropriate? My reply was just to the effect that the reference was silly. I wasn't maintaining or saying anything about you, or other posters which is crossing the line.

To equate that posters hope he fails just because they realize JS lacks the aggression, physicality, toughness to be a good WC D is kind of a big stretch. He's not going to be bringing the snarly now at age 25 and with multiple yrs experience in the league already. if that was in his repertoire at any point here lets see it.
To hell with being right. But unfortunately I will be.

JS is talented, he has skill, but it takes some mean streak to be an effective WC D. he just doesn't possess that. That is my point which I can't express clearer.

I apologize, I wasn't trying to call anyone in particular out, nor was I saying you have this 'wanting them to fail' mentality toward Schultz or any player in particular. In fact, your defense and faith of underdog players I quite enjoy and typically agree with. I totally agree that he is lacking in this toughness and aggression as well but as others have pointed out, to a degree it can be coached. My hope is that he is capable of taking these qualities on, rather than being yet another misstep. Not because I particularly favour this player, but because I want to see this team succeed.

 

[Replacement*]

I apologize, I wasn't trying to call anyone in particular out, nor was I saying you have this 'wanting them to fail' mentality toward Schultz or any player in particular. In fact, your defense and faith of underdog players I quite enjoy and typically agree with. I totally agree that he is lacking in this toughness and aggression as well but as others have pointed out, to a degree it can be coached. My hope is that he is capable of taking these qualities on, rather than being yet another misstep. Not because I particularly favour this player, but because I want to see this team succeed.

Thanks for the classy reply and I'm glad as well I got the chance to elaborate on what was meant.

We'll see what Herbers can do with JS on penalty kill and other suggestions. I have some faith in Herbers and he knows a lot. Good communicator that had the Golden Bears playing a great and cohesive system.

btw JS would have a better chance here if the Oil had other mean D which aside from maybe Gryba they don't. Also if we were EC. Kind of sucks for JS who in the right environment could mask his no grit deficit.

 

[psowrc]

The Keith reference above is ridiculous. At no point was Duncan Keith timid and averse to physical play. In fact while younger he tended to have much more of a penchant for dirty play. Would get a stick or punch in often enough and definitely engaged opponents that way.

Keith could never be confused with somebody that didn't welcome a physical aspect of the game. He was a gamer even if there were moments of struggle putting it together at this level. Keith had to learn to settle himself down. The anger, getting into it, getting aggressive came natural to his nature.

My main critique of Schultz is that he often shy's away from contact, does not like the physical requirement, and plays a chronically soft game. As a person it also appears that he lacks some key ingredients of anger, passion, that make or break good NHL D at least in the WC.

Most people don't learn how to get in someones grill and to be comfortable doing that all the time. Schultz is a nice guy, and is on the ice, but as a D, and in the world of NHL WC hockey that's a problem. Will he become different? I really doubt he has that inside himself where he will get to the point of bringing anger, passion, or even physicality into his role. Theres very little that is unpleasant about Justin Schultz. Excepting that its an ingredient of ugly that often makes good WC D.

You described Petry perfectly in his year prior to his one year contract. Scared of his shadow going back into his own zone...lost with the puck when the other team was entering the zone...threw the puck to nowhere to avoid being hit.

Amazing how he turned that year into the sweetheart deal in Montreal and half of HFOil wish he was still an Oiler.

 

[Replacement*]

You described Petry perfectly in his year prior to his one year contract. Scared of his shadow going back into his own zone...lost with the puck when the other team was entering the zone...threw the puck to nowhere to avoid being hit.

Amazing how he turned that year into the sweetheart deal in Montreal and half of HFOil wish he was still an Oiler.

I never got the impression that petry was shy of being hit. Most of the time his turnovers had more to do with poor puck support.

Couple years ago there was one infamous GDT. Petry was being roasted as usual here for a GA after a turnover. I broke the play down and cited how the complaints were ridiculous. Petry on the play had no one to pass to. Not even a D partner. Petry beat two defenders before finally being stopped on the boards. He had no options on the play.

I'm not a huge fan of Petry but the Oil were better with him than without him for sure. I like what he could bring to the table and he showed more of that in last half of last season but showed it at other times as well. I do think there was a sufficient portion of grit in his game. Would have liked to have seen more but he exhibited it.

 

[Oilhawks]

Thanks for the classy reply and I'm glad as well I got the chance to elaborate on what was meant.

We'll see what Herbers can do with JS on penalty kill and other suggestions. I have some faith in Herbers and he knows a lot. Good communicator that had the Golden Bears playing a great and cohesive system.

btw JS would have a better chance here if the Oil had other mean D which aside from maybe Gryba they don't. Also if we were EC. Kind of sucks for JS who in the right environment could mask his no grit deficit.

No worries, thank you too. I think these forums can be and are a grounds for fruitful discussion, but things can be taken the wrong way. Like in other media / communication, most disagreements or arguments seem to stem chiefly from miscommunication.

I'm really hoping that Herbers has a strong impact on the latent defensive fortitude and skills that many of the players have.

This is true, if JS had a stronger D partner I think it would allow him to play to his strengths better and let another worry more about the defense side. I'm struggling to think of who he would be best paired with given our availability and handedness of our D.

A few posters have brought this up, but would it be possible / fruitful to try Schultz on the wing?

 

[psowrc]

I never got the impression that petry was shy of being hit. Most of the time his turnovers had more to do with poor puck support.

Couple years ago there was one infamous GDT. Petry was being roasted as usual here for a GA after a turnover. I broke the play down and cited how the complaints were ridiculous. Petry on the play had no one to pass to. Not even a D partner. Petry beat two defenders before finally being stopped on the boards. He had no options on the play.

I'm not a huge fan of Petry but the Oil were better with him than without him for sure. I like what he could bring to the table and he showed more of that in last half of last season but showed it at other times as well. I do think there was a sufficient portion of grit in his game. Would have liked to have seen more but he exhibited it.

To keep with your remembering history - there was a game that the puck went into Petry's corner with no one coming in...he looked both ways for the hit coming and drove himself into the boards. Petry did not enjoy the physical aspects of the game.

I believe you give JS one year to try and clean up his game.

 

[Mr Positive]

I never got the impression that petry was shy of being hit. Most of the time his turnovers had more to do with poor puck support.

Couple years ago there was one infamous GDT. Petry was being roasted as usual here for a GA after a turnover. I broke the play down and cited how the complaints were ridiculous. Petry on the play had no one to pass to. Not even a D partner. Petry beat two defenders before finally being stopped on the boards. He had no options on the play.

I'm not a huge fan of Petry but the Oil were better with him than without him for sure. I like what he could bring to the table and he showed more of that in last half of last season but showed it at other times as well. I do think there was a sufficient portion of grit in his game. Would have liked to have seen more but he exhibited it.

there might have been a few instances of Petry not being totally at fault, but even in those situations a better D would have figured out a simpler play to solve the problem. Petry was usually good for at least one unforgiveable gaffe every game. There were quite a few unforced turnovers. What made it not so bad was that the team was awful so it made sense to let him work his issues out. Schultz gets it worse but only because the fans are running out of patience for the entire team. I recall many times this season when Schultz got ripped apart by the fans for bad plays that weren't all his fault either, and there were many times where Schultz had an amazing game and played Keith-esque minutes but very few people would give him proper credit for it.

At any rate, Petry is no longer an Oiler, but I think his situation applies to Schultz just like Keith's did. This is by far the worst time to make any kind of final judgment on any player, and that's especially true for D. Lowetide's article on the Schultz signing said it best, where he basically said that getting rid of Schultz now would badly expose just how bad our organization was, because his value is low and there is a very good chance that he would explode playing next to a decent D partner, something he has NEVER had with the Oilers. Seriously, I heard people here actually saying that Nick Schultz was a fantastic Dman for us, something almost never said while he was here, and it all seems connected to bringing down Justin even more.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Schultz has a ton of talent, the bottom line is that he needs to get stronger, play smarter and grittier and develop a slapper to reach his potential. It's all on him, the potential is there, anyone that watched him play for OKC knows this.

 

[guymez]

Schultz has a ton of talent, the bottom line is that he needs to get stronger, play smarter and grittier and develop a slapper to reach his potential. It's all on him, the potential is there, anyone that watched him play for OKC knows this.

Schultz and Yak are 2 important players that really need to step up this season.
The coaching is no longer an issue for either player.

The defence is better which should afford Schultz reasonable minutes to solidify the weak elements of his game. More intensity...smarter defence and better decision making with and without the puck.
Schultz can make or break this defence IMO.

Same goes for Yak...time to show he was worthy of being a #1 overall pick by playing smarter at both ends of the ice. Time to show that he can actually be a legit 2nd line winger.
Time to commit to being a player that helps his team win games.

Excuse time is over.

 

[Oilfan2]

Schultz has a ton of talent, the bottom line is that he needs to get stronger, play smarter and grittier and develop a slapper to reach his potential. It's all on him, the potential is there, anyone that watched him play for OKC knows this.

Believe it or not, Schultz can actually slap the puck. I've seen him score a few in college games.
Problem is, you doesn't do it. It may be that he has more faith in his wrist shot, which was very successful in college and the AHL, and he didn't have any luck early with the slapper. Don't know.

I don't think it would be a stretch for him to develop it (again) and add another dimension to his play, especially on the PP.

As he mentioned himself, and countless others, his biggest problem is his strength and being able to take a hit and separate players from the puck. He doesn't need to become that hard-hitting player that takes himself out of the play but just make good defensive plays and be able to handle players in the corners and in front of the net.
If he gets stronger this off-season, and gets some defensive assistance from the coaches, I see him having a very good year and most of us being glad we didn't 'walk away'.

 

[Young Lions*]

I honestly don't care that Schultz doesn't have a mean streak or aggressive nature. As attributes go, it's really a nice-to-have not a must-have. What concerns me is indifferent, lackadaisical play (for a guy who is a pretty strong skater, he takes his sweet time when the play is coming back into the D zone) and decision making. I get the sense that this is a guy who got by for a long time on raw talent and never had to learn the game. Not sure that can be fixed at this point, but it can me mitigated by managing his ES TOI better. Lots of PP time for the pump-and-dump.

 

[bucks_oil]

You know... just to play devils advocate.

JSchultz and DKeith have some mathematical similarities... both came into the league at the same age and... well, look at the offensive stats:

http://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=14605

Now, as others have mentioned, they do not even remotely resemble each other defensively (from a style perspective to start with), but if we're expecting Schultz to be our defensively suspect, offensively gifted, pp guy and 2nd/3rd pairing Dman... something a contender CAN insulate... I don't see how he's proven one way or another that he can't make that happen. The fact that he's trended along with one of the more offensively gifted Dmen in the league (regardless of the fact one is two-way and the other one-dimensional) is at least encouraging.

PS: Strike shortened season: DKeith ALSO had exactly 27 points.

I'm willing to wipe the slate clean and see how he can do with a new partner, less responsibility and a new coach.

 

[slaman]

Schultz is infuriating to watch sometimes. He seems to meander back on the play and lacks intensity. I don't think he needs to become the aggressive, gritty, D-man with a mean-streak to be successful.

He just needs to TRY!

I think it is something that can definitely be influenced by coaching and culture.

 

[Comic Book Guy*]

You my friend, have it so very wrong.

Regardless of whether or not you think he "deserves" some sort of respect for getting up early to chase some vulcanized rubber around a rink, even taken within the context of the NHL, I find it remarkable that this guy can command a $3.8 million dollar salary given his performance thus far.

He's been a massive failure to date, and to think he gets another year to "prove" himself at that price point is somewhere between nauseating and vomit inducing for me. But that has more to do with the economics of sport and societal values than Justin himself. "Earned," is a pretty heavy word, and imho he has not earned much to date, let alone that amount.

And fwiw, you have no idea what my work is, what I make, or where I come from, so please lay off on the assumptions while you rant. It only makes you look bad.

You are not and have not trained to be a professional athlete. If you have ever been through what he's been through (or any NHL'ever -- regardless if it's Vern Fiddler, Chris Stewart [who had a tragic upbringing by the way], or Sidney Crosby), you would understand.

You willfully choose to view the world from your vantage point. Must be nice judging the world from that pedestal.

 

[Soundwave]

Schultz and Yak are 2 important players that really need to step up this season.
The coaching is no longer an issue for either player.

The defence is better which should afford Schultz reasonable minutes to solidify the weak elements of his game. More intensity...smarter defence and better decision making with and without the puck.
Schultz can make or break this defence IMO.

Same goes for Yak...time to show he was worthy of being a #1 overall pick by playing smarter at both ends of the ice. Time to show that he can actually be a legit 2nd line winger.
Time to commit to being a player that helps his team win games.

Excuse time is over.

Agreed, it's put up or shut up time for both. If they do not have good seasons coming up, then both are gone, simple as that.

Both need to capitalize on McDavid gimmes.

 

[Replacement*]

You are not and have not trained to be a professional athlete. If you have ever been through what he's been through (or any NHL'ever -- regardless if it's Vern Fiddler, Chris Stewart [who had a tragic upbringing by the way], or Sidney Crosby), you would understand.

You willfully choose to view the world from your vantage point. Must be nice judging the world from that pedestal.

Why is it that everybody saying somebody else is on a pedestal seems as if they are on a pedestal?

Oh, wait, I have to jump off my soap box.

 

[Lacaar]

Agreed, it's put up or shut up time for both. If they do not have good seasons coming up, then both are gone, simple as that.

Both need to capitalize on McDavid gimmes.

One thing that worries me about Schultz is he's already making more than he's worth.
I worry about the price he'll want to come in at if he has a good season this year.

He may be gone regardless. I just don't think he'll ever be a player that you get value out of for their contract.