Pre-Game Talk: San Jose @ Rongods

[JCrusher*]

I don't think Duclair has been all that impressive with the exception of one or two moments per game. I'm not looking for him to be a guy who "doesn't look uncomfortable." He hasn't been bad, but 19 year olds need to be dynamic to be worthy of staying in the league.

Also, putting Hagelin on line 4 is a complete waste.

exactly he has been good but once we are healthy there isnt a spot really. I dont want him on the fourth line because he needs to play bigger minutes

 

[Kakko]

Blacked out for Sabres. Are streams up for tonight?

Why do so many people think the game is today?

It's tomorrow at 5

Sharks are playing the Devils tonight

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Why do so many people think the game is today?

It's tomorrow at 5

Sharks are playing the Devils tonight

I thought they were playing the Devils first and then the Rangers second tonight. Sharks doubleheader.

 

[JCrusher*]

Why do so many people think the game is today?

It's tomorrow at 5

Sharks are playing the Devils tonight

sharks are gonna be tired less than 24 hours which is fine by me

 

[McDonagh27]

sharks are gonna be tired less than 24 hours which is fine by me

Of course, Rangers will have to face a teams backup yet again tomorrow. Stalock will look like a prime Hasek against us. Also, wouldn't be surprised to see all metro rivals win tonight (isles will win again!)

1st world problems!

 

[JohnC]

[NHL][/NHL] im getting a little sick of the sarcasm. Let me tell you something i was a fan of duclair before we even drafted him. I said he was the biggest steal of the past few years. Im sorry i try not to be a homer and be objective

Lol yeah right

You defended Kreider (when he was terrible) in the least objective way possible

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Hopefully, but remember its a leg injury, so he hasn't been able to work on his legs and most likely his conditioning isn't game ready.

It's going to take time for him to be himself again.

As far as injuries go, we got lucky with Boyle. He can still work on his conditioning.

Can't remember where I saw it--most likely it was at Ranger Rants--but read that Stepan had started doing pool training to strengthen his legs. Don't think there was an update on the exact timeline on gettng back in the lineup.

 

[Brooklyn Ranger]

Happy to see MSL away from center. Very happy to see Hayes get a shot between Kreider and Nash. (Oh, Beacon.... what was that you said when I first proposed this?) On the other hand, not so thrilled with MSL on the Brassard line or Duke out of the lineup.

I would play:

Kreider-Hayes-Nash
Duclair-Brassard-Zuccarello
Hagelin-Moore-MSL
Malone-Mueller- Stempniak

Seems painfully obvious to me. I feel like with what they ran in practice today, they're sacrificing a lineup that works best for all the other players (and gives them IMO the best shot to win) simply to make sure that Glass stays on the ice. Does not compute.

I suspect the biggest problem AV would have with that lineup (which I happen to like ) is that he's not willing to demote Stempniak to the 4th line to have Duclair in the lineup (who he only wants on in the top 9). Saw several quotes about Duclair sitting from AV today, he said that you couldn't expect a 19 year coming out of Juniors to play every game--plus there had been 5 games in 8 nights. Also talked quite a bit about having a right-handed center to take certain draws.

Let's see if Duclair only sits a game or two...however, it always seems like the veteran ultimatically wins in these cases.

 

[kovazub94]

I thought they were playing the Devils first and then the Rangers second tonight. Sharks doubleheader.

This gave me an idea for the new subway series double header - daytime at Barclays center and night game at MSG!

 

[Nanaki]

This gave me an idea for the new subway series double header - daytime at Barclays center and night game at MSG!

thats never going to happen

 

[Miamipuck]

No need to be condescending. And i respectfully disagree that he has looked "solid" every game. He loses a ton of battles on the boards and 2 of his 3 assists have come in garbage time. He's had a few good shots here and there, but really hasn't stood out otherwise and he's gotten a fantastic opportunity playing with our 2 best forwards.

He isn't outplaying anyone in our top 9 and with MSL (finally) moving back to his wing position, someone has to be the odd man out. Who are we going to bump down to make room for Duke in the top 9? Stempniak? He's been our best player outside of Nash. He should be getting more playing time, not less and certainly not at the expense of a rookie who has looked mediocre at best.

I'm a big fan of Duke. I think he's going to have a great future with this team. But from what I've seen thus far, he's going to need some more seasoning. His attitude and skills will eventually translate into a very good NHL player, but right now, he's just not ready. I think a lot of people are REALLY trying to see the good things Duke is bringing, but overall he hasn't been very good.

And for what it's worth, the fact that no one else looks very impressive, doesn't really mean much in terms of Duke. We KNOW what Hags, MSL, Kreider, etc can do. They don't need to prove that they can play at the NHL level no matter how crappy they look right now. Duke NEEDS to be proving he is worthy enough to stay here and imo he hasn't done that yet.

I'm not ready to bump down Hags or Stempniak or anyone else at the expense of Duke yet.

I agree with your take here. Duclair has been ok, but he has not been good enough to crack the top nine. Especially when Stepan comes back, which is the end of the nine game rule anyhow. He has the world ahead of him, there's no need to rush or sit him. Once he gets stronger and ready to truly battle veteran NHL players, probably a year or two he is going to be fantastic.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Since others are posting their line combos, i'll join the fray...

Hagelin - D.Moore - Nash
Kreider - Hayes - St. Louis
Malone - Brassard - Zuccarello
Glass - Mueller - Stempniak

Staal - McDonagh
J.Moore - Girardi
Hunwick - Klein

We know Duke is scratched tommorow.

Distribute the offense, and roll 4 lines.

With the defense, keep the two weaker players on their strong side (Moore and Hunwick) and put them with reliable righties. Someone needs to play the weak side, let it be our best defender.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Can't remember where I saw it--most likely it was at Ranger Rants--but read that Stepan had started doing pool training to strengthen his legs. Don't think there was an update on the exact timeline on gettng back in the lineup.

That would be good news.

 

[SupersonicMonkey*]

Apparently he's been swimming to rehab

I hadn't heard about this before you guys mentioned it. Good news.

Any links?

Hopefully his conditioning will be up and make a smoother transition getting back on the ice.

 

[JohnC]

I hadn't heard about this before you guys mentioned it. Good news.

Any links?

Hopefully his conditioning will be up and make a smoother transition getting back on the ice.

I know Zip tweeted it but this was all I could find from a quick googlin

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/605230

 

[Miamipuck]

Apparently he's been swimming to rehab

When I read this my first thought was, "that's odd why not take the car to rehab". Lol

Of course I quickly realized what you meant.

 

[profchaos2001]

I guess no one remembers the Zuc-Brass-MSL line that played against the senators and won 8-4 last year that had like 7 points between them when MSL wasn't playing well with ANYONE. But no, AV has amnesia.

That being said, don't think the sharks are a great team to try it against.

 

[hockeyfanOU812]

Will feel much better after the Blueshirts and the Big Blue win tomorrow!

Blueshirts...yeah, would feel great b/c they have an actual chance.

Big Blue...get real brah I HATE Tony Romo but the Cowgirls are the real deal this year.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Anyone else think Duke should be playing with Zuc and Brass? He's sort of like Pouliot, in that he plays big, has skill, and is good along the wall and in a cycle.

 

[Blue Blooded]

If we look at the players' strengths and weaknesses 5v5 the lines shake out pretty naturally.

Shots for generators:

Nash (+1.56 std. dev. above average)
Kreider (+1.01)
Hagelin (+0.99)

Shots against suppressors:

Zuccarello (+2.10)
Hagelin (+0.97)
Brassard (+0.76)
Kreider (+0.19)

SF suppressors:

D. Moore (-1.14)
Brassard (-0.76)
St. Louis (-0.49)

SA generators:

Nash (-2.10)
St. Louis (-0.72)

Point scorers:

St. Louis (+1.38)
Nash (+0.91)
Hagelin (+0.77)
Zuccarello (+0.69)

Non point scorers:

D. Moore (-1.41)
Brassard (-0.22)
(Kreider (-0.09))

Too little data:

Hayes

You want to combine the point scorers with the shot generators and try to have positive expected possession on every line.

This gives us (assuming Hayes is 0.00 in every category):

Hagelin-Hayes-St. Louis (SF: +0.17, SA: +0.09, P: +0.72)
Zuccarello-Brassard-Nash (SF: +0.30, SA: +0.15, P: +0.47)
Kreider-Moore-Stempniak (SF: -0.04, SA: 0.00, P: -1.55)

MSL and Hayes needs Hagelin's possession and 5v5 scoring. Nash over Hagelin would make that line a complete defensive liability (SA: -0.94).

Our two best defensive forwards Zucc and Brass covers for Nash's defensive deficiencies while not limiting his scoring too much.

Nash or MSL with Moore and Stempniak would limit one of our top scorers completely, so Kreider will have to carry the cross that is Moore at center by being the 6th best 5v5 scoring winger we have (he is even behind Stempniak, and that's being nice and counting only 13-14 numbers for him). Stempniak is the definition of average and is neither a boon nor a burden for any line he plays on in any category.

 

[Raspewtin]

If we look at the players' strengths and weaknesses 5v5 the lines shake out pretty naturally.

Shots for generators:

Nash (+1.56 std. dev. above average)
Kreider (+1.01)
Hagelin (+0.99)

Shots against suppressors:

Zuccarello (+2.10)
Hagelin (+0.97)
Brassard (+0.76)
Kreider (+0.19)

SF suppressors:

D. Moore (-1.14)
Brassard (-0.76)
St. Louis (-0.49)

SA generators:

Nash (-2.10)
St. Louis (-0.72)

Point scorers:

St. Louis (+1.38)
Nash (+0.91)
Hagelin (+0.77)
Zuccarello (+0.69)

Non point scorers:

D. Moore (-1.41)
Brassard (-0.22)
(Kreider (-0.09))

Too little data:

Hayes

You want to combine the point scorers with the shot generators and try to have positive expected possession on every line.

This gives us (assuming Hayes is 0.00 in every category):

Hagelin-Hayes-St. Louis (SF: +0.17, SA: +0.09, P: +0.72)
Zuccarello-Brassard-Nash (SF: +0.30, SA: +0.15, P: +0.47)
Kreider-Moore-Stempniak (SF: -0.04, SA: 0.00, P: -1.55)

MSL and Hayes needs Hagelin's possession and 5v5 scoring. Nash over Hagelin would make that line a complete defensive liability (SA: -0.94).

Our two best defensive forwards Zucc and Brass covers for Nash's defensive deficiencies while not limiting his scoring too much.

Nash or MSL with Moore and Stempniak would limit one of our top scorers completely, so Kreider will have to carry the cross that is Moore at center by being the 6th best 5v5 scoring winger we have (he is even behind Stempniak, and that's being nice and counting only 13-14 numbers for him). Stempniak is the definition of average and is neither a boon nor a burden for any line he plays on in any category.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I usually agree with you BB, but Nash bad defensively? Zuccarello and Brassard our best defensive forwards?

 

[OverTheCap]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I usually agree with you BB, but Nash bad defensively? Zuccarello and Brassard our best defensive forwards?

If Brassard's our best defensive forward, no wonder we've been so lousy defensively

 

[haohmaru]

What's worse about that statement is that Nash is better defensively than either Brassard or Zooks - which isn't meant to be disparaging about either of them either.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I usually agree with you BB, but Nash bad defensively? Zuccarello and Brassard our best defensive forwards?

If Brassard's our best defensive forward, no wonder we've been so lousy defensively

What's worse about that statement is that Nash is better defensively than either Brassard or Zooks - which isn't meant to be disparaging about either of them either.

When Nash has allowed 2.1 standard deviations more shots against than expected over the past three seasons (basically bottom 2.5% in the league) while Zuccarello has allowed 2.1 less than expectation (top 2.5% in the league) I think it is pretty clear cut.

Nash is a OK possession player because he generates a TON of shots, but he does so at the expense of shots against. Considering that forwards especially has virtually no control over their on-ice Sv%, I'd consider that a pretty poor defensive player, one of the worst in the league in fact. Luckily he makes up for it by being a great offensive player. Just like other similar players do (Ovechkin, Jeff Carter).

This is how I'd rank our current top-9 forwards overall 5v5 based on their play the past three seasons:

Hagelin
Zuccarello
Nash
St. Louis
Kreider
Stempniak
Brassard


D. Moore

No ranking: Hayes

Zuccarello/Nash/St. Louis/Kreider overtakes Hagelin overall based on their 5v4 ability, where Hags is just terrible.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

When I read this my first thought was, "that's odd why not take the car to rehab". Lol

Of course I quickly realized what you meant.

"In order to" would have avoided confusion but also would have prevented my brain from conjuring the image of a one legged stepan floundering in the Hudson before getting steamrolled by an oil tanker. Then AV angrily blows his whistle and starts hurling a stream of french and English expletives