Player Discussion: Sami Niku

[Mortimer Snerd]

if this were true the Oilers would have the greatest team in history. they play their young guys a lot. and right away.

You're completely missing the point. Occasionally practicing with the NHL team is not as good a learning experience as playing a lot with the AHL team.

Oilers throw undeveloped players into the NHL. Sink or swim. A lot sink. Not a valid comparison, at all.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Chevy has purposely kept Niku out of the lineup recently because he will look too good to opposing teams and will be demanded in a trade deadline deal.
The Jets defence next season will be Morrisey and Trouba, Buff and Niku, Kulikov and Poolman. Stanley in the wings.
I think Niku will step in semi-regular within the next 2 weeks.

That's just nonsensical. Other teams don't get to 'demand' anything. They negotiate. They ask for something. They get offered an alternative. If they don't like what they are offered they walk away.

Sitting in the press box is not helping a young player develop. Play him, or send him back to the Moose.

 

[Maukkis]

A thought that came to mind while reading this 'trade Niku' bullshit.

Give me all the reasons why a non-scout staff member deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to defense(men).

Morrissey bridge. Trouba bridge. Kulikov signing. Not selling Myers. Chiarot anywhere. Trading for Morrow. Stuart. Niku not getting NHL time. Ditto for Poolman.

I can think of Buff, and that is it for guus who have been handled well.

 

[ps241]

Yes - but I think the point was not so much the consistency of fanbases as it was the consistency of coaches. Psychology pushes coaches to use the flawed vet they know over the flawed rookie they don't know (as well). Even if that rookie's flaws are much less than those of the vet.

Yea the best explanation I have is that those old vets know how to "run the routes" and follow the system and usually fail due to lack of skill. They can be trusted just not counted on.


Rooks make more mistakes by missing on the coaches plan. They can't be trusted as much even if they fail less they fail in the wrong way that seems to set coaches off.


That's all I've got on this one and its probably wrong.

 

[ps241]

A thought that came to mind while reading this 'trade Niku' bull****.

Give me all the reasons why a non-scout staff member deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to defense(men).

Morrissey bridge. Trouba bridge. Kulikov signing. Not selling Myers. Chiarot anywhere. Trading for Morrow. Stuart. Niku not getting NHL time. Ditto for Poolman.

I can think of Buff, and that is it for guus who have been handled well.

Benching Toby in the playoffs for Joe Morrow would be one more I would like to add.

The bundling of Bogo into the Kane Fire Sale was a win.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

A thought that came to mind while reading this 'trade Niku' bull****.

Give me all the reasons why a non-scout staff member deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to defense(men).

Morrissey bridge. Trouba bridge. Kulikov signing. Not selling Myers. Chiarot anywhere. Trading for Morrow. Stuart. Niku not getting NHL time. Ditto for Poolman.

I can think of Buff, and that is it for guus who have been handled well.

I don't really know how you can hold the Morrissey and Trouba bridge against Chevy. I highly, highly doubt Chevy doesn't/didn't want to sign Trouba long-term. Same goes for Morrissey although I guess there is a small possibility he was trying to save on cap space for the next couple seasons.

Judging a GM on giving a player a bridge instead of a long-term deal is tough. You don't know how negotiations went, what if Morrissey went I'm not signing a long term deal unless its for 8-9 million? What if they both just refused to sign long term deals? Do you force them to sit out until they will? Do you think that would make them want to stay here long term?

That being said, if we lose Trouba and re-sign Myers to a big deal I will have serious reservations with our GM's ability to evaluate defensemen.

Also, I will be incredibly pissed if we trade Niku.

 

[Maukkis]

I don't really know how you can hold the Morrissey and Trouba bridge against Chevy. I highly, highly doubt Chevy doesn't/didn't want to sign Trouba long-term. Same goes for Morrissey although I guess there is a small possibility he was trying to save on cap space for the next couple seasons.

Judging a GM on giving a player a bridge instead of a long-term deal is tough. You don't know how negotiations went, what if Morrissey went I'm not signing a long term deal unless its for 8-9 million? What if they both just refused to sign long term deals? Do you force them to sit out until they will? Do you think that would make them want to stay here long term?

That being said, if we lose Trouba and re-sign Myers to a big deal I will have serious reservations with our GM's ability to evaluate defensemen.

Also, I will be incredibly pissed if we trade Niku.

Oh, easily.

We had the cap space to sign one, or even both long term. Everyone has their price, and if they literally didn't (especially Trouba), they'd likely be gone by now. Still, neither got locked up, and our defense STILL has three holes in it with numbers 7, 57, and 70. Even 5 is up for debate. The defense has been handled like a live grenade, and here we are, waiting for the bang.

It's gonna be fun in 2020, when we might be without Trouba, Morrissey demands 8+, and we won't have cap space to do stuff. God knows if Buff can be relied on, and we might have blown Niku on a rental.

 

[surixon]

A thought that came to mind while reading this 'trade Niku' bull****.

Give me all the reasons why a non-scout staff member deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to defense(men).

Morrissey bridge. Trouba bridge. Kulikov signing. Not selling Myers. Chiarot anywhere. Trading for Morrow. Stuart. Niku not getting NHL time. Ditto for Poolman.

I can think of Buff, and that is it for guus who have been handled well.

I believe it's more on Maurice then Chevy by year the org as a whole has not done as good of a job assessing defensive talent as they do forward talent.

The whole Morrissey and Trouba bridges imo directly relate to them not getting the opportunity on the ice to truly maximize their value. Cough let's play Myers over them on the PP cough.

 

[Maukkis]

I believe it's more on Maurice then Chevy by year the org as a whole has not done as good of a job assessing defensive talent as they do forward talent.

The whole Morrissey and Trouba bridges imo directly relate to them not getting the opportunity on the ice to truly maximize their value. Cough let's play Myers over them on the PP cough.

Even though the coaches have been... ugh, Chevy still deserves criticism for not sorting things out himself. Why did he not sell high on Myers when he had a great chance for it? He was the one who re-upped both Morrow and Chia. Then there are the coaches: who has the power to hire and fire, again?

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Oh, easily.

We had the cap space to sign one, or even both long term. Everyone has their price, and if they literally didn't (especially Trouba), they'd likely be gone by now. Still, neither got locked up, and our defense STILL has three holes in it with numbers 7, 57, and 70. Even 5 is up for debate. The defense has been handled like a live grenade, and here we are, waiting for the bang.

It's gonna be fun in 2020, when we might be without Trouba, Morrissey demands 8+, and we won't have cap space to do stuff. God knows if Buff can be relied on, and we might have blown Niku on a rental.

Not sure how that makes any sense. Trouba had his price, to keep playing. There has been no inclination that he had a price to stay here long term. None. You have no knowledge if either of them were open to long term deals without being severely overpaid. What if Morrissey looked at his situation and thought 'I know I have more offense to give, I'm not going to sign a long term deal until I am giving a chance to show it (i.e. top PP).' I think it's crazy to think that Chevy didn't want to sign Morrissey/Trouba long term.

I think our defense has 3 top pairing guys (Morrissey/Trouba/Buff), two #4-5 guys (Myers/Kulikov), and two #7's (Morrow/Chiarot). I think Niku has top 4 potential and should easily be playing over Morrow and possibly even Chiarot. I have more trouble with Maurice's evaluation of defensemen than Chevy's tbh.

 

[Duke749]

Morrow is the one who should be sitting.

What? You think I don’t know that?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What? You think I don’t know that?

No pretty sure you knew that. I think it kind of got lost in your post though.

 

[bennylundholm]

That's just nonsensical. Other teams don't get to 'demand' anything. They negotiate. They ask for something. They get offered an alternative. If they don't like what they are offered they walk away.

Sitting in the press box is not helping a young player develop. Play him, or send him back to the Moose.

I'd say Niku is better served practicing with the Jets than playing with the Moose. If you are named Top Defenceman in the AHL he's proven himself there. He will be a tremendous defenceman with the Jets next year and beyond, and I would venture be very valuable this season as well.
I think Chevy knows he has an incredibly gifted young d-man and his value will skyrocket if he is in the lineup right now. If Chevy is after an elite rental like Stone, I'd still say he's smart keeping him out of the lineup until a deal is done and avoid Niku performing very well and being demanded in return for a Stone type rental.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd say Niku is better served practicing with the Jets than playing with the Moose. If you are named Top Defenceman in the AHL he's proven himself there. He will be a tremendous defenceman with the Jets next year and beyond, and I would venture be very valuable this season as well.
I think Chevy knows he has an incredibly gifted young d-man and his value will skyrocket if he is in the lineup right now. If Chevy is after an elite rental like Stone, I'd still say he's smart keeping him out of the lineup until a deal is done and avoid Niku performing very well and being demanded in return for a Stone type rental.

I'm sorry but keeping him out of the lineup because you don't want other teams to request him in trade doesn't make any sense at all. They ask, you say no.

A trade doesn't work that way. The other team doesn't look at your offer and say that they will take it - but that if you had a good young D prospect they would insist on him instead - and would refuse the offer without him - the same offer that they are accepting because you don't have that guy, as far as they know. That would be like them agreeing to your best prospect, whoever that is. If it is Niku, they accept him. If it is Nogier, they accept him. No, just never.

And I don't think there is much benefit at all to practicing with the Jets during a heavy part of the schedule. They may not have had an actual full practice in the last 2 weeks with the pace of games and travel requirements. Being the best D man in the AHL doesn't mean he can't learn playing there. He is still given things to work on. His D zone play. His positioning, etc.

 

[Jetsetter]

We're not trading Niku. He's got some Erik Karlsson like talents. If you trade him for short term help you're shooting yourself in the foot! Just saying.

 

[Channelcat]

We're not trading Niku. He's got some Erik Karlsson like talents. If you trade him for short term help you're shooting yourself in the foot! Just saying.

Absolutely I agree, but it seems very clear that he is one of the main assets being offered.

 

[KingBogo]

Absolutely I agree, but it seems very clear that he is one of the main assets being offered.

Being offered or being asked about? None of us know this, but it does make sense that he would be a player other GM's would try to pry loose. How tight a grip Chevy has on him is unknown. For all we know moving him he is a deal breaker and nothing gets done.

 

[Evil Little]

Being offered or being asked about? None of us know this, but it does make sense that he would be a player other GM's would try to pry loose. How tight a grip Chevy has on him is unknown. For all we know moving him he is a deal breaker and nothing gets done.

Great point. I think the talk is coming from the front offices of the Senators, Rags, Jackets, et al., not the Jets.

All Niku talk could simply be dreams on their parts, and give zero indication of how the Jets feel about him.

If he is traded, I think it'll be because they feel like he's not a fit and want to sell high a la the Hawks with Daňo.

 

[Neuf]

I'd like to keep Niku, but I imagine his ROI in a trade is large given his draft position. Package him and Appleton - that's probably a nice return. That's what, a 6th and a 7th?!

(I'd rather keep both, just observing)

 

[bennylundholm]

I'm sorry but keeping him out of the lineup because you don't want other teams to request him in trade doesn't make any sense at all. They ask, you say no.

A trade doesn't work that way. The other team doesn't look at your offer and say that they will take it - but that if you had a good young D prospect they would insist on him instead - and would refuse the offer without him - the same offer that they are accepting because you don't have that guy, as far as they know. That would be like them agreeing to your best prospect, whoever that is. If it is Niku, they accept him. If it is Nogier, they accept him. No, just never.

And I don't think there is much benefit at all to practicing with the Jets during a heavy part of the schedule. They may not have had an actual full practice in the last 2 weeks with the pace of games and travel requirements. Being the best D man in the AHL doesn't mean he can't learn playing there. He is still given things to work on. His D zone play. His positioning, etc.

Your missing the point I'm making.
Niku right now is known as a very good prospect. If he is a regular in the lineup I believe he will play extremely well and a team like Ottawa will rate him as the Jets best prospect and demand he is included in the deal.
Of course the Jets can say no and propose an alternative offer not including Niku.
I believe Chevy would rather deal any other young player or prospect than Niku for a top line rental such as Stone. Playing Mojo in place of Niku right now allows the Jets to "hide" Niku until after the deadline.
Just my personal opinion, certainly may be incorrect.

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[Channelcat]

I assumed they would let him play tonight. This is interesting.

 

[MardyBum]

Yay, more PB time for Niku.

 

[Deedog99]

Showcasing him to the sens. Trade announced late Saturday night or Sunday morning.

 

[Channelcat]

Showcasing him to the sens. Trade announced late Saturday night or Sunday morning.

Then why wouldnt they let him play with the Moose tonight?