Player Discussion Sam Reinhart: IV - New contract! 2 years, $3.65m AAV

[Jame]

Thats Eichel, Sam is a close second though

you got it backwards

 

[Matt Ress]

Thats Eichel, Sam is a close second though

One could probably argue Mitts and Dahlin are ahead of Sam but they'll have to show it first.

 

[darcyRegier]

Sam is the better passer, but Eichel's other tools make him the superior overall playmaker.

I can agree with that, I'd also add that Reinhart is the better quick chip/deflection passer. Kinda hard to explain, but here's a perfect example of it (4:45 into the video):

 

[darcyRegier]

One could probably argue Mitts and Dahlin are ahead of Sam but they'll have to show it first.

I personally think Mitts is going to be the best playmaker on the team in a few years

 

[Matt Ress]

I personally think Mitts is going to be the best playmaker on the team in a few years

fingers crossed

 

[Royal Thunder]

Reinhart looked so much more confident towards the end of last year, as he was finally able to win battles and stay on his feet. With that confidence he was dominating games, if he can build off that we are all in for a treat.

 

[Sabre the Win]

I don't see that as something to "worry about". Nor do I care if he gets paid accordingly if he becomes said player.

But if you could have got him on a deal way cheaper now than what it would cost as hes putting up those numbers in 2 years time you cant deny that we would be in a much better situation in the future being able to sign more quality talent because we have Reinhart signed cheap rather than rolling the brinks trucks out for Reinhart and sacrificing the quality line mates because Botteril is selective when paying for potential.

 

[stokes84]

But if you could have got him on a deal way cheaper now than what it would cost as hes putting up those numbers in 2 years time you cant deny that we would be in a much better situation in the future being able to sign more quality talent because we have Reinhart signed cheap rather than rolling the brinks trucks out for Reinhart and sacrificing the quality line mates because Botteril is selective when paying for potential.

And if he doesn’t score a point in the month of December again, you’ll be happy he wasn’t locked in. That’s the way this goes.

 

[stokes84]

I'd say this probably requires listing the 4 players you think are better passers and down low playmakers.

I did that already.

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

He plays right wing with Jack and Skinner. They click as our top line and Sam has PP success. That is a scenario where I could see Sam as a PPG player.

If he does that means our team did really well. So I wont be sad. I just dont see him getting that many points even on that line. 70 maybe yes, 80 no way unless we win presidents trophy or something within 2 years...

 

[Sabre the Win]

And which player is more likely going to be a superstar? I’m talking 90pt+ potential, at a premium position? What player has an ability to put the team on his back? To take over games?

and if Jack never lives up to that? Botterill then completely overpaid on potential while refusing to even budge on potential from other players. What a stain on his time here that would be.

I absolutely love Reinhart - but let’s not get confused. These contracts are completely different players with two different situations.

Only because media painted Jack as the savior of this organization after we lost out on McDavid and Pegula felt the fans needed some kind of hope to so desperately cling on too before proving what he brought which still isn't close to 10 mil yet.

Once Larkin gets a higher aav on less UFA years that $5.75m is thrown out the window for 6years (one additional UFA year bought).

No Larkin got paid for potential to build off a 61 point season, Reinhart hasn't had a 61 point season yet. Larkin is more comparable to William Nylander and Reinhart isn't. Looking back on that contract now. Larkin is pretty much already on a steal of a contract since wingers get paid 7 mil for 60 points and Larkin plays arguably the most important position of the game and if he puts up better numbers that contract is going to be looked at as "how to properly GM"

If we are talking 8yrs then that number is assuredly close to or above $7m. In that case we will have the same posters *****ing that Buffalo bridged Sam ***** that he’s overpaid.

The number was 5.75 and I can almost guarantee that was the number for term by looking at the other contracts signed and bridges given out, only Stone got the bridge price of what 60 point wingers are going for which is 7 and even then he scored 61 points in 58 games which made him over a PPG producer which would be considered a steal if he plays all 82 games and scores over a PPG for 7 mil.

Not to forget, a 5yr deal ends in UFA. Buffalo is realistically looking like another 2 or 3 years out from being a solidified contending team in the eyes of the league. This forum would melt if Sam got a 5yr deal.

Taking a look at re-paying Sam in 5 years would give us a better look at where this team is currently at. His contract would fit around whatever Dahlin and Middlestadt sit at and potential breakouts, Nylander, Asplund, Ullmark. We could either try to fit Sam in under the cap or move on from him if there is a cheaper option. You could also always sign him to an extension if you are afraid of UFA.

 

[brian_griffin]

But if you could have got him on a deal way cheaper now than what it would cost as hes putting up those numbers in 2 years time you cant deny that we would be in a much better situation in the future being able to sign more quality talent because we have Reinhart signed cheap rather than rolling the brinks trucks out for Reinhart and sacrificing the quality line mates because Botteril is selective when paying for potential.

That's as an impressively long single-sentence post as I've ever seen.

 

[Sabre the Win]

And if he doesn’t score a point in the month of December again, you’ll be happy he wasn’t locked in. That’s the way this goes.

No because he's already worth at least 5.5 and I've been asking for 5.25 which would make him essentially a great deal with term now and even more so if he puts up better numbers in the future. I could only regret the contract if Sam recedes from a 50 point player at that point.

 

[Sabre the Win]

That's as an impressively long single-sentence post as I've ever seen.

I would have said that in person without taking a breath.

 

[stokes84]

I could only regret the contract if Sam recedes from a 50 point player at that point.

Which is very possible.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Which is very possible.

Not with his hockey IQ, players with hockey IQ are able to re-think the game if its not working for them. The only thing that brings down a player of his caliber is injury.

 

[stokes84]

Not with his hockey IQ, players with hockey IQ are able to re-think the game if its not working for them. The only thing that brings down play from a player of his caliber is injury.

Well, obviously our GM thought it was important to see more. And I agree. Sam was very good at the end of last season, and very bad at the beginning. Now he has a chance to show who he really is.

 

[Dingo44]

I can agree with that, I'd also add that Reinhart is the better quick chip/deflection passer. Kinda hard to explain, but here's a perfect example of it (4:45 into the video):

Sam knew where he was going to pass that before Kyle even made the pass. That's next level.

 

[sincerity0]

and if Jack never lives up to that? Botterill then completely overpaid on potential while refusing to even budge on potential from other players. What a stain on his time here that would be.

Only because media painted Jack as the savior of this organization after we lost out on McDavid and Pegula felt the fans needed some kind of hope to so desperately cling on too before proving what he brought which still isn't close to 10 mil yet.

No no no. Do not try to spin the facts to fit the narrative here. Eichel was by far the better prospect in their respective drafts. The 2015 tank was built around the fact that finishing last gtd Eichel who was also billed as an elite prospect. One that easily would go #1 in almost every draft over the prior ten years.

Reinhart, even if he was in the McDavid draft would not have been anywhere near the hype Eichel got rising McDavids coattails.

No Larkin got paid for potential to build off a 61 point season, Reinhart hasn't had a 61 point season yet. Larkin is more comparable to William Nylander and Reinhart isn't. Looking back on that contract now. Larkin is pretty much already on a steal of a contract since wingers get paid 7 mil for 60 points and Larkin plays arguably the most important position of the game and if he puts up better numbers that contract is going to be looked at as "how to properly GM"

So Larkins deal to build off a 61 point year is a model contract for how to “properly gm” when he can leave at 27? But Eichels contract, which would lock him up for 8 years (also buying more UFA term) at a higher cap hit isn’t? Eichel was by far a better prospect and significantly more hyped. Larkin scored 63pts in 82 games. Eichel, 64 in 67.

I agree that Nylander is a better comparable than Reinhart for Larkin. Larkin out performs Reinhart in points, and regularly plays center.

The reason why Larkins contract “looks” like a steal is because Detroit only bought ONE UFA year. The other 4 years of that deal are restricted. That’s why Larkin is not getting paid $7m+ for 60+ pt production because he’s not selling extended UFA time.

The number was 5.75 and I can almost guarantee that was the number for term by looking at the other contracts signed and bridges given out, only Stone got the bridge price of what 60 point wingers are going for which is 7 and even then he scored 61 points in 58 games which made him over a PPG producer which would be considered a steal if he plays all 82 games and scores over a PPG for 7 mil.

Taking a look at re-paying Sam in 5 years would give us a better look at where this team is currently at. His contract would fit around whatever Dahlin and Middlestadt sit at and potential breakouts, Nylander, Asplund, Ullmark. We could either try to fit Sam in under the cap or move on from him if there is a cheaper option. You could also always sign him to an extension if you are afraid of UFA.

And guess what... in 5yrs sam would be a UFA and free to walk anywhere he wants. Buffalo wouldn’t be able to extend sam until the summer before the final season of that contract ends. Buffalo still has limited leverage because Reinhart would be looking at UFA status.

You can continue to play checkers while I’ll continue playing chess in discussing how Botterill is/should building/build this roster

 

[BowieSabresFan]

I don't ever, EVER want to hear "well, it's both sides being unreasonable" or anything to that effect again.

Stokes’ comment is absurd. I doubt anyone but him agrees with it.

You do go a bit overboard the other way at times, so perhaps a bit of self-reflection? Perhaps also don’t get triggered quite so easily.

 

[Jim Bob]

Well, not everyone...

 

[ZZamboni]

Well, not everyone...

Those that don’t are low information fans.

 

[Paxon]

I did that already.

I saw after I posted. The only guy you can argue is both a better passer and down low playmaker is Eichel. Two of the guys you listed aren't even forwards, so they're not exactly down low playmakers, with Ristolainen clearly not as good of a passers as Reinhart on top of that. Dahlin is a better passer. Okposo... c'mon.

 

[Sabre the Win]

No no no. Do not try to spin the facts to fit the narrative here. Eichel was by far the better prospect in their respective drafts. The 2015 tank was built around the fact that finishing last gtd Eichel who was also billed as an elite prospect. One that easily would go #1 in almost every draft over the prior ten years.

Reinhart, even if he was in the McDavid draft would not have been anywhere near the hype Eichel got rising McDavids coattails.

Spin the facts? We tanked for McDavid dont get that twisted, Eichel was the consolation prize, it was never a tank for Eichel because no one in their sane mind would have taken Eichel over McDavid and I've already gone on about how STUPID it is to judge players on their draft positions. Too often is a prospect drafted in the later rounds becomes better than most of the 1st rounders chosen.

Bad contracts are given when they are given on the premise of draft status rather than the show and prove model.

So Larkins deal to build off a 61 point year is a model contract for how to “properly gm” when he can leave at 27? But Eichels contract, which would lock him up for 8 years (also buying more UFA term) at a higher cap hit isn’t? Eichel was by far a better prospect and significantly more hyped. Larkin scored 63pts in 82 games. Eichel, 64 in 67.

Exactly, hype got Eichel his contract rather than showing and proving which is a horrible way to GM also no one argued that Eichel should be getting 6 mil so stop trying to straw man a debate. Eichel on a Draistl contract would have been more fair when paying for potential with Eichel.

How you turned Eichel vs Larkin is beyond me when it you made the original comparison to Larkin vs Reinhart.

also 2 years of UFA is not the difference of 4 million.

I agree that Nylander is a better comparable than Reinhart for Larkin. Larkin out performs Reinhart in points, and regularly plays center.

You should.

The reason why Larkins contract “looks” like a steal is because Detroit only bought ONE UFA year. The other 4 years of that deal are restricted. That’s why Larkin is not getting paid $7m+ for 60+ pt production because he’s not selling extended UFA time.

I am curious to know how much you think UFA time costs per year.

And guess what... in 5yrs sam would be a UFA and free to walk anywhere he wants. Buffalo wouldn’t be able to extend sam until the summer before the final season of that contract ends. Buffalo still has limited leverage because Reinhart would be looking at UFA status.

That isn't really a concern these days, if we are winning and a good team and Sam wants to stay then he will stay, you could also have an extension in place in agreement to sign January 1st. If Sam want's to leave then so be it, I would rather have a player who wants to play in Buffalo be here.

You can continue to play checkers while I’ll continue playing chess in discussing how Botterill is/should building/build this roster

Cute.

 

[sufferer]

That deflection tho.