Salary Cap: Salary Cap Thread - Waiting for Goaldot

[Dipsy Doodle]

I mean, this is certainly an odd point you are making when you argued Heinen and Rodrigues were bad adds at their cost and you’ve been pleading for physicality.

I believe you have also commended the Rangers for what they’ve done this off-season including the Goodrow signing. Goodrow who put up a similar production in the regular season in terms of points and hits as ZAR and in the playoffs while being fed significantly more minutes.

I have never - not once - said that physicality is the only area we need to upgrade. In fact it's been the exact opposite. I've consistently said we need more skill, more size, and more physical play - and pointed out that we did none of these these.

I also don't recall saying anything about wanting to have added Goodrow at that price.

He might be more skillful, but for the last three years, he's been a worse player. His skill has amounted to only 0.06 more points per 60 than ZAR, and a lower than team average for goals scored and expected goals scored. He hasn't played solid defence, he's played quite a bit worse than team average defence. Other than getting fed good minutes in Buffalo because they had no one better, he's been pretty darn bad recently. Good luck to him in proving otherwise, but if he doesn't ZAR will have a better season next season.

Yes and Dupuis was 6th in the NHL in P/60 one year. Was he the 6th best offensive player that year?

The fact is that ZAR has never scored more than 17 points in a season, and that was some time ago. I'd rather have a forward who can actually produce than a suppression defense 4th liner who can't crack 20 points in his best year and has a grand total of 4 points in 23 playoff games.

 

[Peat]

Yes and Dupuis was 6th in the NHL in P/60 one year. Was he the 6th best offensive player that year?

The fact is that ZAR has never scored more than 17 points in a season, and that was some time ago. I'd rather have a forward who can actually produce than a suppression defense 4th liner who can't crack 20 points in his best year and has a grand total of 4 points in 23 playoff games.

So... ZAR's bad because he's got a season high of 17 points, but the guy who couldn't outproduce him at 5v5 in two of the last three seasons is someone who can actually produce?

This isn't a one season sample that might be misleading, it's three seasons and there's not a lot of reason to think MoJo is suddenly going to become a different player to the one he currently is, which is a 3rd/4th line 5v5 producer with poor defence who produces on the PP without driving good results there.

I mean, if you want a bottom sixer who's good on the PP, then Heinen's outproduced and outpossessed MoJo at 5v5 in the last three years, been a better PKer, been less productive but got better results on the PP, and costs .4m less and is 5 years younger.

The only reason to lust after MoJo I'm seeing is if you've got a time machine.

 

[TimmyD]

He'll probably start on the second line, but it's not like we could have brought in a second line center to fill in while Geno is out anyway, unless you plan on going all Tampa Bay and keep him out until the playoffs.

What are you talking about??? If Hextall wasn't always so sleepy he could trade Pettersson and ZAR for Eichel. Boom 2nd line center right there

 

[TimmyD]

Columbus is shopping Domi according to Friedman. I wonder if the Pens could buy low on him and get him for Petts. I think Domi would be a good compliment to Malkin and Kapanen

 

[Andy99]

Columbus is shopping Domi according to Friedman. I wonder if the Pens could buy low on him and get him for Petts. I think Domi would be a good compliment to Malkin and Kapanen

I don’t get the appeal of Domi…he’s a disappointing player, like Galchenyuk was…lots of talent but can’t put it together consistently…I’m no Petts fan, but if we’re trading him, I’d either want significant cap space back or an excellent player if I’m spending more AAV…Domi just provides neither

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Idk why Domi wants to be a center, his skillset seems to fit a Marchand-lite winger mold near perfectly

 

[Peat]

I don’t get the appeal of Domi…he’s a disappointing player, like Galchenyuk was…lots of talent but can’t put it together consistently…I’m no Petts fan, but if we’re trading him, I’d either want significant cap space back or an excellent player if I’m spending more AAV…Domi just provides neither

Domi is on an expiring deal iirc. That might be the best way of getting cap space back for Pettersson.

 

[TimmyD]

I don’t get the appeal of Domi…he’s a disappointing player, like Galchenyuk was…lots of talent but can’t put it together consistently…I’m no Petts fan, but if we’re trading him, I’d either want significant cap space back or an excellent player if I’m spending more AAV…Domi just provides neither

What "excellent player" are you getting back for a 3rd pairing defenseman signed for $4 million that has also been a disappointment?

 

[TimmyD]

Also what is the word on Parise? I thought it was pretty much done that he signed with the Isles, but that hasn't happened?

 

[LiffLaff]

What are you talking about??? If Hextall wasn't always so sleepy he could trade Pettersson and ZAR for Eichel. Boom 2nd line center right there

Oh snap, didn't think of that, get it done Hextall!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

So... ZAR's bad because he's got a season high of 17 points, but the guy who couldn't outproduce him at 5v5 in two of the last three seasons is someone who can actually produce?

Johansson had 21 ES points in '18-'19 and 24 in '19-'20.

ZAR's career high is 16...3 years ago.

Johansson also produced well in the playoffs from the 3rd line the last time he was on a legitimate playoff team, something we can't say ZAR's ever done.

I mean, if you want a bottom sixer who's good on the PP, then Heinen's outproduced and outpossessed MoJo at 5v5 in the last three years, been a better PKer, been less productive but got better results on the PP, and costs .4m less and is 5 years younger.

The only reason to lust after MoJo I'm seeing is if you've got a time machine.

Significantly preferring MoJo to ZAR isn't "lusting" after him. It's an awful low bar.

I prefer Heinen to ZAR too - despite his actual production being further in the rear view than Johansson's - but I was hardly "lusting" after him either.

 

[Andy99]

What "excellent player" are you getting back for a 3rd pairing defenseman signed for $4 million that has also been a disappointment?

Unlikely but that would have to be part of a larger deal…I’d rather have a draft pick and cap space back for Petts tbh

 

[Andy99]

Domi is on an expiring deal iirc. That might be the best way of getting cap space back for Pettersson.

we don’t have the $1.3 mil in cap space though to accommodate the difference in cap hit between the two…

 

[Hottubber]

we don’t have the $1.3 mil in cap space though to accommodate the difference in cap hit between the two…

Toss in ZAR

 

[Andy99]

Toss in ZAR

yeah, I just think we’re making the team worse at that point…I’m not a huge fan of Domi

 

[Peat]

we don’t have the $1.3 mil in cap space though to accommodate the difference in cap hit between the two…

Retention. It's only a year. I mean, I doubt CBJ do it, I don't think they need LD and they'll probably get better offers, but I think it'd work for us simply due to the term.

Wonder if he ends up in Minnesota.

 

[EightyOne]

Id be fine with a moron like Domi.. But CBJ aren't gonna make a good trade with us lol

 

[Victor Z]

Matheson's great in the transition game, but I'd like a lot more points/production out of the guy though considering his talent and cap hit.

And not being so easily "walked" in his own end so often, but on this team it may not be fair to criticize Matheson alone for that particular weakness.

Plus, as you said, some of that "OMG LOOK AT HIM SKATE!" and "OMG LOOK AT THAT FIRST PASS!" actually translating into something in the back of the opposition net way more often than it does would be nice.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

And not being so easily "walked" in his own end so often, but on this team it may not be fair to criticize Matheson alone for that particular weakness.

Plus, as you said, some of that "OMG LOOK AT HIM SKATE!" and "OMG LOOK AT THAT FIRST PASS!" actually translating into something in the back of the opposition net way more often than it does would be nice.

He's definitely got his warts, and the lack of production in addition to said warts is probably why he's not a very highly paid blueliner. Take the bad with the good, I guess, I just wish the good wasn't simply "he does the skating good".

 

[chethejet]

Domi is a risk but for one year he for Petts may not give them the cap relief they need, but they still accomplish moving the next three years of that contract. Plus, Zar is not needed and can be moved for prospect or picks. The next moves with Malkin or Letang and having cap room after this year even with potential costly moves for the above is still considerable. Hextall will have zero excuses after this year with cap room and draft picks.

 

[ChaosAgent]

He's definitely got his warts, and the lack of production in addition to said warts is probably why he's not a very highly paid blueliner. Take the bad with the good, I guess, I just wish the good wasn't simply "he does the skating good".

Matheson isn't a very highly paid blueliner? Coulda fooled me

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Matheson isn't a very highly paid blueliner? Coulda fooled me

Not after this dipshit GM brainworms offseason he isn't haha

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Matheson isn't a very highly paid blueliner? Coulda fooled me

Yeah, like BlindWilly said--he's overpaid, and I don't really want him here, but a shade under $5 million isn't anywhere close to the top of the pile of garbage after this offseason.

 

[Turin]

I feel genuinely sorry for Oilers fans who don’t realize that their defense likely got worse after their offseason that was supposed to save the McDavid prime years.

 

[Freeptop]

Now see stuff like this absolutely has merit and I believe this is a valid and fair criticism of certain moves. There was no need to bring ZAR back, especially at a clip close to $2 million, when they could have looked at a better player for slightly less money

Once the Pens qualified ZAR, they were locked into keeping him, since he was eligible for arbitration, and he filed for it. They had to qualify him before free agency started, so not doing so meant risking losing him as a UFA and then ending up paying more for a replacement. Johansson didn't sign until over a week after free agency began. He was almost certainly asking for more than 1.5M originally.
Hindsight is 20/20, but it's not the reality of how the Hockey Ops staff would have perceived things at the time.

Also, Johansson wasn't better than ZAR last season.

Johansson had 21 ES points in '18-'19 and 24 in '19-'20.

ZAR's career high is 16...3 years ago.

Johansson also produced well in the playoffs from the 3rd line the last time he was on a legitimate playoff team, something we can't say ZAR's ever done.



Significantly preferring MoJo to ZAR isn't "lusting" after him. It's an awful low bar.

I prefer Heinen to ZAR too - despite his actual production being further in the rear view than Johansson's - but I was hardly "lusting" after him either.

20/21 season comparison:
Johansson: GP: 36
1:49 PP TOI/G
65:06 PP TOI total
15:56 TOI/G
G: 6 A: 8 P: 14
PPG: 2 PPA: 4 PPP: 6
SHG: 0 SHA: 0 SHP: 0
EVG: 4 EVA: 4 EVP: 8

Aston-Reese: GP: 45
0:03 PP TOI/G
2:08 PP TOI total
14:37 TOI/G
G: 9 A: 6 P: 15
PPG: 0 PPA: 0 PPP: 0
SHG: 1 SHA: 0 SHP: 1
EVG: 8 EVA: 6 EVP: 14

Johansson got regular power play time, albeit on the second unit. Most of his production came on the power play.
Aston-Reese barely got more power play time over the entire season than Johansson would get in a single game.
At even strength, ZAR outpaced Johansson. Even accounting for playing more games, Johansson scored at 0.22 even-strength pts/g, while ZAR scored at 0.31 even strength pts/g. ZAR beat out Johansson's total goal production solely at even strength.

Also, while Aston-Reese's career high was 17 points in 43 games in the 18/19 season, he wasn't that far behind that this year with 15 points in 45 games, so it's not like he's showing signs of dropping off a cliff. He paces at over 10 goals per season over an 82 game season, which is reasonable third-line production (his career average puts him at over 13 goals/82 games, in fact). And the Pens have him split time mostly between the third and fourth lines.

Honestly, I wouldn't be heartbroken in the least if the Pens moved on from Aston-Reese, but I really don't understand the hatred he gets on these boards. What do people really expect from bottom six forwards?