Salary Cap: Salary Cap Summer | The Hunt for 3C | Stop trying to give Sheary or Maatta away

[Ogrezilla]

Jagr is 6th and a RW

you know I'm always on #Jagrwatch

 

[Riptide]

Would have to be part of a bigger trade. Not sure what + they would give us that makes sense to downgrade from Horny to Gally.

His speed and more importantly him being locked up for 4x3.75m is probably a pretty good place to start.

 

[Riptide]

Agreed. I think something like 4.5-4.75mil for Hornqvist is fair depending on the term. He's at a tough age given his playing style.

Because of his durability in question, I go with 3yrs max for term at 4.8m/yr. Hornqvist is vital to the Pens top 9, the guy is a solid cog on any line he's on from 1st to 3rd and even 4th in the playoffs at times, he plays a rock solid 2-way game and he's a guy that wears players down with his energy and physical play (battling on the boards, in front of the net, and the hits he throws).

Sorry guys, but you're completely out to lunch here. Boston gave a 32 yr old Backes a 5x6m deal while NYI gave a 30 yr old Ladd a 7x5.5m deal. Both of those contracts were handed out last summer. That's in addition to KO and Eriksson both getting 6x6m deals. This summer we just saw Oshie (30) get a 8x5.75m deal. Hell even Brayden Schenn managed to get a 4x5.125m deal.

Bottom line, that's a lot of term and a lot of money that for the most part is going to guys in their early 30s. There's nothing to suggest that Hornqvist won't get something similar. This isn't what we'd "want to give him", this is what as a UFA he can almost certainly get on the market. And as one of the best at what he does around the league, someone will give it to him.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

And, lbr, if there's another lockout they'll get some compliance buyouts to use.

 

[Ogrezilla]

His speed and more importantly him being locked up for 4x3.75m is probably a pretty good place to start.

yeah, the idea that they'd be adding there is silly. Not a chance are we getting Gallagher for Horny.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Phil kessel is 8th for active playoff points per game with 66 points in 71 games. 6th for goals. The idea that he doesn't score enough is completely ridiculous, especially if you are focusing on the playoffs.

The whole thing is certifiable.

Is Phil happy? Damn right he is.
Is Phil consistently producing offense including at the most important times? Damn right he is.
Is Phil on a good contract (salary retained by Leafs)? Damn right he is.
Is Phil a big part of the two Cups we just won? Damn right he is.
Is there another player on the team who is comparable? Nope.
Is there another player out there on the block who is comparable and cheaper? Nope.

Thus is there a single, solitary reason to trade him? Nope.



We should all just give the losers floating this rumor the finger by ignoring them, people fall for this **** every time. It's a non-entity made up by ******* Pittsburgh media who have nothing better to do with their lives than troll internet forums during the off-season. Because they're not talented enough at what they do to make money in more traditional ways.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sorry guys, but you're completely out to lunch here. Boston gave a 32 yr old Backes a 5x6m deal while NYI gave a 30 yr old Ladd a 7x5.5m deal. Both of those contracts were handed out last summer. That's in addition to KO and Eriksson both getting 6x6m deals. This summer we just saw Oshie (30) get a 8x5.75m deal. Hell even Brayden Schenn managed to get a 4x5.125m deal.

Bottom line, that's a lot of term and a lot of money that for the most part is going to guys in their early 30s. There's nothing to suggest that Hornqvist won't get something similar. This isn't what we'd "want to give him", this is what as a UFA he can almost certainly get on the market. And as one of the best at what he does around the league, someone will give it to him.

Hornqvist strikes me as one of those loyal players. I think he'd accept a deal of 5million to 5.5 over five years. I have no issue with that. I imagine he'd age like a Kunitz did throughout his early to mid-thirties.

 

[Riptide]

Those were teams I instantly thought of too.

Detroit is easy - Sheahan is the obvious hope. They have 2.2mil in space and need to sign Athanasiou. I mean, if he wants $3-3.5mil, we could easily do a Wilson for AA style swap where they get a very good player in return for a guy they simply can't afford. And I mean, jesus they still have Tatar to sign...FML is that a terrible looking roster and cap structure. IIRC, AA was a wing...but he's listed as center everywhere...who knows.

Detroit's is misleading - at least if you're looking at capfriendly. They have 3.95m from Franzen that they will place on LTIR. They're also likely to send 2D back to the AHL (they're carrying 9). If they send down two of their 3 cheapest, that's between 1.375 and 1.56m that they'd gain. Meaning after 3 very easy moves (assuming they're willing to risk waivers with one of Ouellet, Jensen or Sproul), they'd have gained around 5.5m of cap space. Add that to the 2.275m they already have and you're talking about 7.7m for 4 players - 2 of whom will be dirt cheap, and the other fairly affordable. It's just Tatar they need to sort out.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Jagr is 6th and a RW

He's come cheaper too....

Trade Kessel for a 3rd line center!

 

[Riptide]

And, lbr, if there's another lockout they'll get some compliance buyouts to use.

I think you mean "when". The NHL will still currently gains more than they'd lose by locking out the players for part of the season. About the only way they don't is if out of consideration for LV and potentially another expansion team they see if they can extend the current CBA for 3-5 years. Otherwise when this current CBA is up, there will be another lockout.

A few CBA's from now (assuming more gains each time for the NHL) and with an increased US TV deal, that will likely change to the point where the NHL would still see gains, but maybe not enough to miss games. But as things stand, it's in their benefit to miss time to get what they're looking for.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I think you mean "when". The NHL will still currently gains more than they'd lose by locking out the players for part of the season. About the only way they don't is if out of consideration for LV and potentially another expansion team they see if they can extend the current CBA for 3-5 years. Otherwise when this current CBA is up, there will be another lockout.

A few CBA's from now (assuming more gains each time for the NHL) and with an increased US TV deal, that will likely change to the point where the NHL would still see gains, but maybe not enough to miss games. But as things stand, it's in their benefit to miss time to get what they're looking for.

I do. It's just a matter of when it would be in regard to contracts and how long the compliance buyout window lasts with the length of the lockout. And if the Pens would use one.

 

[Mattpilf]

Sheary is expected to go to arbitration on Aug 4th till the court decides. Gonna be hard using him as trade bait.

 

[deakka]

Yeah. Its really bad he got one of the latest dates. We are not allowed to trade him until its settled, and we cant get a 3c before we know our cap situation....

So even if we wont trade Sheary (i dont think we will), we are still in limbo until it is settled.

 

[Slabber Chops]

The whole thing is certifiable.

Is Phil happy? Damn right he is.
Is Phil consistently producing offense including at the most important times? Damn right he is.
Is Phil on a good contract (salary retained by Leafs)? Damn right he is.
Is Phil a big part of the two Cups we just won? Damn right he is.
Is there another player on the team who is comparable? Nope.
Is there another player out there on the block who is comparable and cheaper? Nope.

Thus is there a single, solitary reason to trade him? Nope.

This about sums it up to be fair. I always smile when I see people referencing Kessel in potential trades. It's ludicrous on the deal that he's at.

 

[Slabber Chops]

Yeah. Its really bad he got one of the latest dates. We are not allowed to trade him until its settled, and we cant get a 3c before we know our cap situation....

So even if we wont trade Sheary (i dont think we will), we are still in limbo until it is settled.

I don't matters all of that much to be honest. JR's looking at trades not free agents. It's so difficult to get a workable deal with the cap so if there's a deal to be struck that both teams like, it'll still be there in another 3 weeks. Not great for the fans but I don't think JR's too worried.

 

[Riptide]

Yeah. Its really bad he got one of the latest dates. We are not allowed to trade him until its settled, and we cant get a 3c before we know our cap situation....

So even if we wont trade Sheary (i dont think we will), we are still in limbo until it is settled.

Sure we can. We have 11.055m of cap space, and need Sheary, Dumoulin and a #3C. Sheary and Dumoulin are not going to eat up more than 8m of that. Hell I'd be surprised if (in arbitration) they even hit 6.7m combined. Rutherford can comfortably go and get a 3m player without breaking a sweat. It's only as he starts to get over 3.5-4m that he needs to be a little leery of things.

But if like he says, he's waiting to see what shakes out with some other teams who need to move players (DAL, LV) or might have cap issues as they sign their RFAs (DET, etc), waiting isn't a bad move. He's already said that there's players he could get today to fill that hole. If he's confident that those players will still be there in a month, waiting to see how things shake out with a few other teams isn't a bad move.

The only downside to filling that #3C spot prior to getting the numbers from Sheary and Dumoulin, is that if he makes 3.8m+, it could be an issue if those awards come in a little higher than most expect. I mean it's not like we really have any dead weight that we could easily move to gain cap space. Sheary, Cole, Maatta, Hagelin, Hornqvist. Those are all valuable players, and it would suck to move any of them just to get under the cap.

Besides... we frequently hear after trades are made that the two GMs had been talking about it for weeks. Waiting 4 weeks in the offseason after most of the FAs have been signed shouldn't be a big deal.

 

[PensPlz]

Just really have this feeling that Duchene will be sent to Carolina and Carolina sends J Staal to us.

 

[Tender Rip]

People are looking at Kessel's stats and saying he could/should do more. I agree. Which is why I looked at this stats with Geno. You want more from Kessel? Put him with Geno and fireworks happen. That's how you get more from Kessel.

That was largely true in the regular season from a pure production POW, and it was true also against Columbus when Rust was on their line.
The rest was pretty much PP action.

But.... the problem was just how poorly Kessel played most of the time, and how little he did to help Geno.

Personally, I think Sprong is going to be much like Kessel. Somewhat dodgy on the defensive side, on-off work rate wise and in possession of an absolutely lethal, game breaking shot... that we will need him to utilize on the 1st unit PP if he is to be max effective.

Now, it is not rational to trade Kessel in the expectancy of Sprong to be ready. I was only a believer in "Trade Kessel" if it meant that we could sign Radulov, who I consider (blasphemy to most) a better player, and clearly superior partner for Geno's line. But if Sprong plays really well when coming up and has anything like a Guentzel impact, I will be back on that tack, because Geno doesn't need Kessel and Sullivan clearly doesn't really want to play him with Sid.

I'd then take the still elite return while we can, because Phil isn't going to age well. There's already little "thrill" ES because he does not have the speed to back up or blow away defenses like he could. He didn't do it for pretty much all of the just past season.
Now there are great hands and a sick wrist shot, and that is it. Left to his own devices on the left wall with opponents having most their attention on the other side, that is still enormous for us.

But aain - if Sprong shows that his shot translates.... we are much better off filling our relative holes or getting elite futures through a Phil trade than we are keeping him and stunting Sprong while doing so.

Safe to say I find Darth Vitale's run-down arguable.... but did everyone now licking their chops to call me a moron notice that "I am not advocating a trade now as Radulov is gone and Sprong hasn't proven himself"?

I hope so - but it doesn't change the underlying argument.

 

[HandshakeLine]

To be honest, I pretty much just lick my chops all the time. It's a weird tic. Calling people morons is an added bonus.

 

[Peat]

Tender Rip - people seemed to be focusing mainly on his stats so that's where I focused. Any stat watching argument on Kessel should remember that him and Bonino were toxic (yet his most common line mate) and him and Geno were, statistically, bananas.

Could we/should we have expected more from him in general play? I dunno, I remember a lot of people being annoyed from time to time, so maybe yes. Sometimes I think people expected too much from the team last regular season due to circs... but the problem of post-season fatigue will only get worse.

To be honest, I pretty much just lick my chops all the time. It's a weird tic. Calling people morons is an added bonus.

Wait, that's weird? Why did no one tell me?

 

[Ogrezilla]

the notion that Kessel played poorly these playoffs is just bonkers. Did he plays as well as last year? No. But last year nobody would have been surprised if he won the Conn Smythe. If you're expecting Kessel to play on Sid and Geno's level on a regular basis, you're going to be disappointed. There is only one other forward in the league who can do that. But even when playing "badly" Kessel finished third in playoff scoring and lead the team in shots. So I just completely disagree with the notion that Kessel played badly. Last year he played as well as the best player in the world. This year, his play dipped to a disappointing very good.

 

[JTG]

dude he was 3rd in playoff points this year, 4th the year before (1st on our team), and 1 point behind Sid and Geno in the two playoff runs combined. Even when he plays "badly", he's a great producer. Seriously, 1 point behind two of the three best players in the world. But he needs to score more? Come on.

He is capable of more goals. I understand he's passing the puck, and that's great, but if you lined up all of our guys and said, "pick your top 5 shooters," Kessel is my #1 every single time. Points are great, but Phil this season absolutely go caught in dishing the puck too much and he also got in stickhandling trances. He had his lowest shot totals of his career this year, aside from his 1st and 2nd year in the league. I want to see Phil shoot the puck. There is zero reason why he can't score 30 goals and have 80 points.

As I've said, it doesn't necessarily bother me, but him deferring in the shooting dept is not the best for this team.

 

[Ogrezilla]

He is capable of more goals. I understand he's passing the puck, and that's great, but if you lined up all of our guys and said, "pick your top 5 shooters," Kessel is my #1 every single time. Points are great, but Phil this season absolutely go caught in dishing the puck too much and he also got in stickhandling trances. He had his lowest shot totals of his career this year, aside from his 1st and 2nd year in the league. I want to see Phil shoot the puck. There is zero reason why he can't score 30 goals and have 80 points.

As I've said, it doesn't necessarily bother me, but him deferring in the shooting dept is not the best for this team.

1. He led the team in shots these playoffs.
2. He had his lowest time on ice since his 3rd year in the league this year.
3. He's not the primary focus of the entire team here like he was in Toronto.

 

[JTG]

I'd also give him his own PP unit. Him on that left wall doesn't work with Sid and Geno. He's not a 1 time shooter. He needs to have the puck on his blade.

 

[JTG]

He also led the team in shots these playoffs.

And he had one of the worst shot for v. against ratios 5 on 5 of the entire team. Only player worse was Bonino.