Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | We’re going down, down in an earlier round

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Just a bit of a side note; I do think Petts should be in WBS. He's NHL-capable now, sure, but I think he'd benefit far more from huge minutes in all situations down in WBS than scraping together bottom pairing minutes on this dumpster of a blueline.

 

[Pancakes]

Dude just said we have the best D we’ve had since he’s been here.

I know, and I am sure he will largely keep that defensive unit intact. But it would be very difficult to carry all of them at the current cap hits especially with Petts needing a raise.

I guess it's possible he goes into next season with a third pairing totaling 7million or more in cap space but I doubt it. One of those guys is going.

 

[Burn]

I'm just gonna drop this big ol' turd on you dummies and walk away. I'm rattled.

Great... Speed is one thing... Two D lumped together all over the ice is another.

Give me a D that's about being structured and more well rounded than hyperactive and always out of position.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Great... Speed is one thing... Two D lumped together all over the ice is another.

Give me a D that's about being structured and more well rounded than hyperactive and always out of position.

How about none of the above?!

JR's your guy!

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Kessel for Radulov please, i think we would need to add some. But they make similar money at the moment

 

[MDarn17]

Reading these quotes... It sounds like things are about to get so much worse.

 

[Shady Machine]

Just a bit of a side note; I do think Petts should be in WBS. He's NHL-capable now, sure, but I think he'd benefit far more from huge minutes in all situations down in WBS than scraping together bottom pairing minutes on this dumpster of a blueline.

??? Is this your actual opinion? He's an NHL dman and played plenty of minutes. I'm legitimately confused.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Rossi literally had an article yesterday that said JR number one priority was Murray contract.

The next day JR says he hasn't even thought about it yet.

Rossi is the absolute worst.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I just want to see this team get younger around Sid and Geno. We've got a really solid group of younger guys in Guentzel, Rust, McCann and Bjugstad. Simon, Blueger and AJ could/should be a solid fourth line.

Besides McCann none of those players are really all that young anymore tbh. Rust and Bjugstad are will be 27 next year and the rest of the group you named will all be 25. I guess that’s a hair below league average and I’m not saying they’re old, but to me they’re more in their primes than they are a youth movement.

That said, number one priority should be getting better, not younger. It shouldn’t be too hard to do both, but improving the roster should come first imo. Only have so many still-elite years left of 87/71.

 

[Burn]

How about none of the above?!

JR's your guy!

He is... Just get me coaches that will adapt to what we have and not force JJ Gudbranson and Maatta to play like Cole and Daley.

I mean these are pro coaches. Adapt already.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just don't even know how to dissect these quotes, man. How on earth does a guy paid handsomely to make these decisions not see things are big-time messed up right now, and only stand to get worse?

The man's completely lost touch. He's just doubling down all over the place and seems to outright refuse to acknowledge the current style of the NHL--the style that his own team coined a few years ago, was wildly successful, and everyone since has been copying.

??? Is this your actual opinion? He's an NHL dman and played plenty of minutes. I'm legitimately confused.

Yeah, I do. I'd rather Petts get the Dumo treatment and be allowed to develop in WBS, playing big minutes in all situations, than to plonk him on a bottom pairing with someone like Gudbranson or JJ.

Petts was one of the better in a collection of pretty miserable performances by our blueline this post-season, but he's still pretty damn raw and prone to issues in his own right.

I'm not sure it's possible considering how much work needs to be done (JJ out, Maatta out, are we truly happy with Gudbranson?) but in a vacuum, yeah. I'd rather we give Petts another year in WBS. This season coming up is probably going to be a transition season anyway with the stuff JR's likely to do this summer in moving multiple, significant pieces for god knows what.

Besides McCann none of those players are really all that young anymore tbh. Rust and Bjugstad are will be 27 next year and the rest of the group you named will all be 25. I guess that’s a hair below league average and I’m not saying they’re old, but to me they’re more in their primes than they are a youth movement.

That said, number one priority should be getting better, not younger. It shouldn’t be too hard to do both, but improving the roster should come first imo. Only have so many still-elite years left of 87/71.

I'd say 25-26 is still young. That's half a decade younger than the core now, who are just starting to approach the inevitable slowdown that comes with age.

Nobody's advocating going after young players with no regard to their talent or fit. I specified a few pages back that age should be right around the top of the list, but that's assuming speed, skill and fit are the top.

He is... Just get me coaches that will adapt to what we have and not force JJ Gudbranson and Maatta to play like Cole and Daley.

I mean these are pro coaches. Adapt already.

Buddy if you think Sully's the problem in the face of all these JR quotes, yikestown.

Sully coaches this team to back to back Cups and instills an identity in this organization for the first time in like a decade, with a system that runs on the blueline being able to skate/move pucks out of danger and up to their forwards in a hurry, and JR gives him this blueline corps... And it's somehow Sully's fault for not being able to "adapt" to make a bunch of slow, ineffective and vanilla guys successful in a landscape of fast, aggressive, forechecking teams?

If you can find the coach that can get a blueline with Jack Johnson, Olli Maatta, Erik Gudbranson and the ghost of Justin Schultz to be successful in the face of any number of fast, aggressive teams, I'll drive to Pittsburgh myself and try to arrange a meeting between he and JR.

 

[MrBurghundy]

The top 4 defense is probably as good as we've had it under GMJR. We basically just added Petterson to it and subtracted Cole.

Dumoulin - Letang
Petterson - Schultz

Those bottom pairing defenseman though... God damn how could you think that's acceptable?

 

[vyktor]

He gave up the 2 on 1 because of a stupid decision with the puck, not because of an aggressive pinch (unless I'm missing the one you are referring to).

I don't disagree that the forwards play a big part in the odd man rushes as well. As a 5 man unit, they are not defending well in transition or in zone. Is Sully's message stale? That's the $MM question.

And you also have to read the situation. play aggressive when average players are on the ice, ok. but maybe you play a little more conservative when Eberle who has torched you every game of the series is on the ice.

One that sticks out in my mind was against Edmonton, they have 2 guys who are a true threat, so maybe you look and say I'm not going to take chances when McDavid and Draisaitl are on the ice.
But LeTang doesn't do that, he doesn't think and adjust based on the score, players on the ice or any other factor.

Great... Speed is one thing... Two D lumped together all over the ice is another.

Give me a D that's about being structured and more well rounded than hyperactive and always out of position.

This team plays like it leaders, and LeTang is obviously the leader on D. How do you hold anyone on this D accountable when the leader is the most inconsistent of all

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I was havin' a solid day. Went to the gym, ran some errands, got groceries and some stuff was on sale, grabbed some new body wash and it smells awesome (don't you judge me with those church bitch eyes).

Then JR goes and drops this heap of white dog crap on me. I'm taking a 2pm nap.

 

[66-30-33]

I was havin' a solid day. Went to the gym, ran some errands, got groceries and some stuff was on sale, grabbed some new body wash and it smells awesome (don't you judge me with those church ***** eyes).

Then JR goes and drops this heap of white dog crap on me. I'm taking a 2pm nap.

While JR is next to you can you punch him in the face and tell him he's wrong? I'll ignore that you let a brittle old man drop some poop on you if you do.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I am just outright angry at this man.

It's very clear based on his late-career track record with Carolina that he was a bad GM. He caught lightning in a bottle and then got lucky the second year. But he's bad. He must go.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Trying to piece together some of JR's quotes to get an idea for the gameplan for this off-season:

1. The defense will probably be the same going into next year as it was at the end this year, but with Maatta traded and Riikola likely the #7D. I'd be interested to see if they load up the top-4 and go with Johnson-Gudbranson on the bottom pair or keep the same pairs they've had.
2. There will probably be some changes in coaching. Personally, I bet Martin is out and I wouldn't be surprised if Recchi was removed either.
3. There will almost definitely be changes made with the forwards. My gut feeling would be that Rust and Kessel are the 2 most likely trade candidates, with possibly Hornqvist being #3. I think Crosby, Malkin, Guentzel, McCann and Bjgustad are very safe, though.
4. The Penguins will be targeting "hunger" and "chemistry" this off-season instead of a specific player style. That makes me believe that they'll be looking for young players that may mesh well with Crosby or Malkin. I know that's a "no duh" comment, but I don't think they'll be looking for specific player types. I think they'll just be trying to get another McCann or 2.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I ain't mad at the guy, but it's been made blatantly obvious he's no longer fit to run this team if these quotes are genuinely how he sees things. And like many media people have said, specifically Gretz, JR doesn't bullsh-t. He says what he means.

This team is in a rough spot as long as he's at the helm.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know Pixies will come in here with calling me a Rutherford apologist, but I'm not ready to say that the team is "in a rough spot" as long as he's the GM. He has done enough good things in my eyes since the 2017 cup win that I'm not willing to throw him out as a potential solution to the problems on the team right now. The stuff about the defense isn't stuff I wanted to hear, but you can still survive with that defense if you address other areas on the roster. If you can fix the dumb defensive mistakes, which is a systematic problem in my eyes, and continue to get good goaltending from Murray, I think you're in a completely fine spot defensively as a whole.

You can easily have success in the NHL with a bad defense if you can score goals and have a good goalie. The Penguins obviously have a good goalie, and small tinkers to the forward group should get that back to consistently scoring goals too. Those are my 2 big hopes for this off-season.

 

[Andy99]

He needs to go...it’s hard to defend him at this point...

 

[steelcityassault]

Just a bit of a side note; I do think Petts should be in WBS. He's NHL-capable now, sure, but I think he'd benefit far more from huge minutes in all situations down in WBS than scraping together bottom pairing minutes on this dumpster of a blueline.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I'm getting a little worn down by all of the focus on "speed".

Look we won in 16 & 17 because we suddenly became a top 2 or 3 team in speed and caught our opponents literally flat footed.

After our success, nearly every team is moving in this direction. For us to become a top 3 team again with speed is going to be nearly impossible, especially with our vets decreasing towards that end.

So what to do moving forward? Buck the trend. Build a team & system that frustrates and neutralizes speed. You still have plenty of skill, fill in the surrounding pieces with a sole focus with this system. It may take a over a year to complete the build, but live with that.

 

[molon labe]

I'm getting a little worn down by all of the focus on "speed".

Look we won in 16 & 17 because we suddenly became a top 2 or 3 team in speed and caught our opponents literally flat footed.

After our success, nearly every team is moving in this direction. For us to become a top 3 team again with speed is going to be nearly impossible, especially with our vets decreasing towards that end.

So what to do moving forward? Buck the trend. Build a team & system that frustrates and neutralizes speed. You still have plenty of skill, fill in the surrounding pieces with a sole focus with this system. It may take a over a year to complete the build, but live with that.

I made a thread about this a while back.. I agree that this might work - but you still have to be able to capitalize on chances.

I asked what people thought about moving towards a 2012'ish LA Kings type of team. We'd be playing games very similar to how the Ottawa series played out, relying heavily on random scoring chances - though far better in our own end with a bruising presence on both the O and D.

It is an interesting thing to think about going forward though - how we plan on being fast with aging players. Sid can still skate with the best of them, but for how long? And as our 1C, if he's average in speed, what good is having wings who are blazing fast? We're hoping he's close enough to make a pass I guess? Geno on the other hand already looks about NHL-average with speed. He relies more on stick handling and dangling... and as our 2C needs guys who can help him get into the zone. Are those guys going to need to be speed demons? That's where my thought of Kessel for Radulov came from. I think a guy who 1. has chemistry with Malkin from summers/international play, and 2. plays a skilled but physical brand of hockey would be better suited than a anti-physical goal scorer who will not sacrifice even a glove to keep a play alive. So now we're left with lines 3 and 4, who are mostly used for defensive draws and PKs. Maybe we look to youth for those lines and try to regain 2016 status in the depth lines? The whole speed thing is overplayed, though often merrited - I just think (agree with you) that we really need to be honest with ourselves when it comes to Sid/Geno. Unless we're sticking them on the same line and looking for speed everywhere else - you've got 65% of our offense in guys skating averagely.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I made a thread about this a while back.. I agree that this might work - but you still have to be able to capitalize on chances.

I asked what people thought about moving towards a 2012'ish LA Kings type of team. We'd be playing games very similar to how the Ottawa series played out, relying heavily on random scoring chances - though far better in our own end with a bruising presence on both the O and D.

It is an interesting thing to think about going forward though - how we plan on being fast with aging players. Sid can still skate with the best of them, but for how long? And as our 1C, if he's average in speed, what good is having wings who are blazing fast? We're hoping he's close enough to make a pass I guess? Geno on the other hand already looks about NHL-average with speed. He relies more on stick handling and dangling... and as our 2C needs guys who can help him get into the zone. Are those guys going to need to be speed demons? That's where my thought of Kessel for Radulov came from. I think a guy who 1. has chemistry with Malkin from summers/international play, and 2. plays a skilled but physical brand of hockey would be better suited than a anti-physical goal scorer who will not sacrifice even a glove to keep a play alive. So now we're left with lines 3 and 4, who are mostly used for defensive draws and PKs. Maybe we look to youth for those lines and try to regain 2016 status in the depth lines? The whole speed thing is overplayed, though often merrited - I just think (agree with you) that we really need to be honest with ourselves when it comes to Sid/Geno. Unless we're sticking them on the same line and looking for speed everywhere else - you've got 65% of our offense in guys skating averagely.

And again I will once again state, it will be nearly impossible to become a top 3 team in speed moving forward. I have no problem adding fast players, but that shouldn't be the primary focus. They should fit into the new system that frustrates FAST teams.

 

[molon labe]

And again I will once again state, it will be nearly impossible to become a top 3 team in speed moving forward. I have no problem adding fast players, but that shouldn't be the primary focus. They should fit into the new system that frustrates FAST teams.

Most every team in the NHL are shooting for fast(er) players. Granted, the clutch and grab of the past few playoffs have really stood out and may have some GM's reconsider....but still these fast players are going to be commanding premiums we don't have.

That's ignoring what we're already talking about: Looking at the Pens 1-3C, who exactly is set to play with fast players? Sid? Malkin & Bjugs are not really lighting the world on fire with their foot speed...

So yeah, we can get fast(er) guys - but lets focus on that after/during the fixing of the vomit flavored defense, Malkin's wing, and some depth that can chip in.