Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building Thread: Your proposal is bad and you should feel bad

[KIRK]

Also that source called the Domi for Chucky swap well in advance.

He did?

That person who mentioned Lehkonen was roundly mocked on the Habs forum as a pretend wanna be insider.

The person who mention Maatta generically without saying who the Habs might have in play was, I thought, the one who actually called the trade over the summer.

 

[Riptide]

I like Lehkonen, he’s kinda nasty

...but it’s a big roll of the dice to leave your bottom 4 D as an coming off major injury Justin Schultz, Marcus Petersson, Jack Johnson and Jusso Riikola.

Yeah we'd need another D immediately.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Hallander and Addison are two of the Pens' top prospects. No way Durzi and Grundstrom are that level. By Leaf fans own descriptions, Grundstrom's more of a "Komarov type" and Durzi is basically a boom or bust offensive defenseman.

Some leafs fans may have said that others were pretty sad to see Grundstrom go. He actually sounds a lot like Hallander in the descriptions I’ve read. Addison is above Durzi right now but his value would be higher than any other of our D prospects.

If we wanted to do a similar deal with LA they’d be asking for at least one of them probably both.

 

[Riptide]

I have no doubt JR is looking for a top six winger. My worry is the fact he seems to like the defense he has.

In fairness the blueline would look a LOT better if Schultz had been healthy and hadn't missed most of the season. My concern is the question marks surrounding how good he'll be when he comes back.

 

[Turin]

In fairness the blueline would look a LOT better if Schultz had been healthy and hadn't missed most of the season. My concern is the question marks surrounding how good he'll be when he comes back.

Yep. If Schultz is coming back as normal Schultz.. fine. But we have no idea what he’ll be like and we know his replacements frankly suck with Maatta.

 

[Turin]

In fairness the blueline would look a LOT better if Schultz had been healthy and hadn't missed most of the season. My concern is the question marks surrounding how good he'll be when he comes back.

Yep. If Schultz is coming back as normal Schultz.. fine. But we have no idea what he’ll be like and we know his replacements frankly suck with Maatta.

 

[KIRK]

In fairness the blueline would look a LOT better if Schultz had been healthy and hadn't missed most of the season. My concern is the question marks surrounding how good he'll be when he comes back.

And mine is that even if he's fine, the second pairing will be pedestrian at best with Maatta as his partner (which in turn will mean more 5 on 5 ice time for the JMFJ pairing).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And mine is that even if he's fine, the second pairing will be pedestrian at best with Maatta as his partner (which in turn will mean more 5 on 5 ice time for the JMFJ pairing).

We got rid of one problem and made another problem more permanent in Maatta being the only partner for Schultz.

This goes from bad to hilarious.


*popcorn.gif*

 

[Riptide]

And mine is that even if he's fine, the second pairing will be pedestrian at best with Maatta as his partner (which in turn will mean more 5 on 5 ice time for the JMFJ pairing).

That pedestrian at best pairing with Maatta and Schultz didn't have an ES goal scored against them all POs last season. If Schultz comes back and can get into form before the POs, they'll be fine. The bigger issue for us will always be how much help the forwards give the D.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That pedestrian at best pairing with Maatta and Schultz didn't have an ES goal scored against them all POs last season. If Schultz comes back and can get into form before the POs, they'll be fine. The bigger issue for us will always be how much help the forwards give the D.

Olli was somewhat decent last year for most of the season.

This season he's literally been terrible with everyone but Schultz and the narrative on "Pens blogs and sites" is that its the partners he's been with that stunk and obviously not the norris candidate Olli that is terrible by any means.

 

[Riptide]

Olli was somewhat decent last year for most of the season.

This season he's literally been terrible with everyone but Schultz and the narrative on "Pens blogs and sites" is that its the partners he's been with that stunk and obviously not the norris candidate Olli that is terrible by any means.

Well they're not wrong in that sense - his partner's haven't been good (Oleksiak/Riikola). But he definitely deserves some blame for his own game which hasn't been all that good.

 

[TimmyD]

Maatta to Montreal would be interesting. Maybe Maatta for Lehkonen+Byron. Then flip Jarry+ for Ferland possibly? Send out Sheahan for a pick to clear some extra cap

Jake Sid Hornqvist
Lehkonen Malkin Kessel
Ferland Brassard Rust
Byron Cullen Simon

Dumo Letang
Riikola Schultz
Pettersson Johnson

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm late to the party, but trading Maatta would be incredibly stupid with the state that the defense is in, especially for a winger that the Penguins already have a bunch of. Maatta for Lehkonen would just be a bad move.

 

[TimmyD]

Also for as bad as Brassard has looked here and as much as I think he isn’t fitting, he is on pace for 18 goals this season. That’s a pretty impressive goal total for a guy who looks like he isn’t fitting

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also for as bad as Brassard has looked here and as much as I think he isn’t fitting, he is on pace for 18 goals this season. That’s a pretty impressive goal total for a guy who looks like he isn’t fitting

I feel like Brassard's point totals would look a lot better if his linemates could finish. He only has 2 assists in his last 32 games, that's not only on him. He has been scoring goals at a good rate all season long, it's just that his linemates can't produce.

 

[Peat]

There’s only so many minutes to go around though and I’d rather have more money go into the top 9 forwards than the bottom pair D.

Schultz would only have a year left and likely wouldn’t re sign him so while assest management isn’t always top priority for a team in our position I think we could get a decent return.

Finally I don’t think we could even realistically see JJ being moved until year 3 most likely year 4 if they wanted to move him.

We routinely have bottom pairing dmen playing 18 or so minutes, more than any but our main PP forwards. That's ample ice time to go around and a sufficiently important thing that I'm happy to commit money to it. Maybe not Schultz level money, but a decent whack in general.

I’m mostly bugging you, but “I’d trade a decent defenseman without replacing him, only problem is that we don’t upgrade the D” is funny considering just how bad the D is. I mean hell.. Pens played like **** today and they still scored 3. They gotta focus on D. I agree Lehkonen could be a fit, just not for Maatta.

Our defensive problems start with a forward corps who get beaten to too many secondary pucks imo. I'm not advocating a D for F trade, but the focus on D has to be a team focus.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I feel like Brassard's point totals would look a lot better if his linemates could finish. He only has 2 assists in his last 32 games, that's not only on him. He has been scoring goals at a good rate all season long, it's just that his linemates can't produce.

Trying to think through this...

His linemates were (please correct me if I am wrong) Kessel, Horny, Rust, Simon, ZAR, Sheahan, … is it just a matter of the wrong person as a fit? Consistency? I mean he does exactly exude high end vision or passing that I've seen. Or do we not have any wings that can finish without Sid feeding them?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Trying to think through this...

His linemates were (please correct me if I am wrong) Kessel, Horny, Rust, Simon, ZAR, Sheahan, … is it just a matter of the wrong person as a fit? Consistency? I mean he does exactly exude high end vision or passing that I've seen. Or do we not have any wings that can finish without Sid feeding them?

I think this is very much a realistic possibility. I think Guentzel and Kessel when he's on are the only guys you can rely on for being consistent goal scorers/snipers. I actually think the Penguins really miss Sheary because of that, they really need to get a guy who can put the puck in the net for the bottom-6. Kessel is supposed to be that, but Kessel has been very hit and miss at ES this year IMO.

Sheahan has a good shot, but he's not a sniper. I'm tempted to include Pearson in that group too. ZAR and Hornqvist are grinders. Rust hasn't looked good this year when not with Crosby. Simon has a muffin of a shot. I don't think it's just as simple as "get someone with a cannon of a shot", I think there are a lot of issues that need to be solved with that 3rd line. I think the biggest issue is that the 3rd line has never had the speed it needs to be effective. If you had a speedster RW that could grind and retrieve pucks for you, a Pearson-Brassard-RW line should work well, the Penguins just don't have one of those.

 

[Tom Hanks]

We routinely have bottom pairing dmen playing 18 or so minutes, more than any but our main PP forwards. That's ample ice time to go around and a sufficiently important thing that I'm happy to commit money to it. Maybe not Schultz level money, but a decent whack in general.



Our defensive problems start with a forward corps who get beaten to too many secondary pucks imo. I'm not advocating a D for F trade, but the focus on D has to be a team focus.

We haven’t had that this season or last. The main issue is having a 5.5 mil player playing some of his lowest minutes of his career. He’s also not going to be happy about that given that he’s a UFA and is going for the biggest contract of his career. There’s better uses of cap space.

 

[Peat]

Brassard's pretty much our worst forward for shot generation statistics, particularly quality shot generation. Its pretty likely that part of this is that when Brassard is on the ice, we just don't generate great chances.

Also, while we've got a fair amount of streaky guys, our wings can and do score without Sid (or Geno). Rust scored at a quicker rate out of the bottom 6 last year; ZAR and Cullen together result in a 10+ shooting percentage; Sheahan is a very reliable 10.4-9% shooting guy regardless of where he is; Hornqvist has been a reliable 10+ ES goals a season guy his entire career; etc.etc.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Brassard's pretty much our worst forward for shot generation statistics, particularly quality shot generation. Its pretty likely that part of this is that when Brassard is on the ice, we just don't generate great chances.

Also, while we've got a fair amount of streaky guys, our wings can and do score without Sid (or Geno). Rust scored at a quicker rate out of the bottom 6 last year; ZAR and Cullen together result in a 10+ shooting percentage; Sheahan is a very reliable 10.4-9% shooting guy regardless of where he is; Hornqvist has been a reliable 10+ ES goals a season guy his entire career; etc.etc.

But what's the reason for that? Is it just Brassard sucks? Or is it that his linemates aren't helping him generate chances (all of ZAR, Pearson, Sheahan, Kessel and Rust have negative Rel HDCF/60, with ZAR being worse and Pearson being nearly as bad as Brassard)? Or are the Penguins just missing Schultz that much, which is exposing their defense to be lacking in terms of puck movers?

I think it's a lot more complicated than "Brassard can't generate chances when he's on the ice". To me, Brassard having a bad year is the 3rd biggest reason why the 3rd line has been as bad as it has been so far this year. The 2 bigger ones are that the Penguins really miss Schultz and they haven't had a good wing duo for the 3rd line.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I think this is very much a realistic possibility. I think Guentzel and Kessel when he's on are the only guys you can rely on for being consistent goal scorers/snipers. I actually think the Penguins really miss Sheary because of that, they really need to get a guy who can put the puck in the net for the bottom-6. Kessel is supposed to be that, but Kessel has been very hit and miss at ES this year IMO.

Sheahan has a good shot, but he's not a sniper. I'm tempted to include Pearson in that group too. ZAR and Hornqvist are grinders. Rust hasn't looked good this year when not with Crosby. Simon has a muffin of a shot. I don't think it's just as simple as "get someone with a cannon of a shot", I think there are a lot of issues that need to be solved with that 3rd line. I think the biggest issue is that the 3rd line has never had the speed it needs to be effective. If you had a speedster RW that could grind and retrieve pucks for you, a Pearson-Brassard-RW line should work well, the Penguins just don't have one of those.

I agree with you Sheary. I wasn't his biggest fan for sure, but he could finish. Well, so who's the RW who has speed and can finish we can get I wonder? It felt like we thought we had that in some point, but maybe not...

 

[AverageJoeFan]

Brassard's pretty much our worst forward for shot generation statistics, particularly quality shot generation. Its pretty likely that part of this is that when Brassard is on the ice, we just don't generate great chances.

Also, while we've got a fair amount of streaky guys, our wings can and do score without Sid (or Geno). Rust scored at a quicker rate out of the bottom 6 last year; ZAR and Cullen together result in a 10+ shooting percentage; Sheahan is a very reliable 10.4-9% shooting guy regardless of where he is; Hornqvist has been a reliable 10+ ES goals a season guy his entire career; etc.etc.

I know this is going to sound completely absurd, but I was thinking last night of Wilson playing with Malkin last night. Geno has no one who he can dump and chase with it feels like. Wilson's shot is horrid, but I think he might be a good support guy for Geno. Yes, I feel like I am being nuts by even saying this..

 

[Peat]

We haven’t had that this season or last. The main issue is having a 5.5 mil player playing some of his lowest minutes of his career. He’s also not going to be happy about that given that he’s a UFA and is going for the biggest contract of his career. There’s better uses of cap space.

Claiming that Cole's 17:37 in 17-18 doesn't count as 18 minutes or so is taking pedantry too far. We routinely hand out serious ice time to bottom pairing dmen and this season is an oddity due to the concentrated special teams ice time in the top 4 that obviously wouldn't apply if Schultz was on the bottom pairing. I'm pretty sure Schultz has been officially on the third pairing sometimes when getting 19 minute nights.

Now, as I said, maybe Schultz on the bottom pairing with Petry on the second would be a step too far. But as a general point, our third pairing dmen are important and more heavily used than the majority of our wings. And given how much we've struggled when injury reduces us to only one PMD, I'm not too keen on staying at two in the future. If Schultz is too expensive, there needs to be a replacement.

I know this is going to sound completely absurd, but I was thinking last night of Wilson playing with Malkin last night. Geno has no one who he can dump and chase with it feels like. Wilson's shot is horrid, but I think he might be a good support guy for Geno. Yes, I feel like I am being nuts by even saying this..

Nothing nuts about identifying the lack of a good support wing for Geno... but there may be something nuts about not wishing for a more effective solution

 

[Tom Hanks]

I know this is going to sound completely absurd, but I was thinking last night of Wilson playing with Malkin last night. Geno has no one who he can dump and chase with it feels like. Wilson's shot is horrid, but I think he might be a good support guy for Geno. Yes, I feel like I am being nuts by even saying this..