Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Tell me where it hurts you and I'll tell you who to call

[Empoleon8771]

Too many good assets, plus ROR makes 7.5 mil per, too much for a 3c.

The cap is supposed to rise a lot after this year, though. It likely means you can't re-sign Hornqvist, but you can afford ROR as the 3rd line center. ROR is also as good of a winger as he is a center, you can load up the top-6 with Guentzel-Crosby-ROR or ROR-Malkin-Kessel for extra ice time for ROR too.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Just for laughs, Maatta, Sheary and a 2018 1st to Buffalo for ROR. Does either team do this?

At least light some candles and get scented oils if you're going to talk dirty like this.

ROR would be IMMENSE, just imagine that line-up and the shenanigans between him and Crosby with accidental nut-taps in practice...

"Hey hey..haha you got me!" -Sid.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Too many good assets, plus ROR makes 7.5 mil per, too much for a 3c.

I think it can be workable. Hagelin gone remedies a lot of things in the bottom 6 in terms of cheaper talent we have that should be getting a shot that cost 3m and some change less. Cole would likely be moved as well at the TDL.

I'm not saying it's a great move, but it can be doable while also keeping a lot of good pieces around.

 

[Ryder71]

The cap is supposed to rise a lot after this year, though. It likely means you can't re-sign Hornqvist, but you can afford ROR as the 3rd line center. ROR is also as good of a winger as he is a center, you can load up the top-6 with Guentzel-Crosby-ROR or ROR-Malkin-Kessel for extra ice time for ROR too.

I view ROR as a bit overrated and again that salary is just daunting. And, if we lose two players like Maatta and Sheary, we're gonna have to add another defensemen to level things out. I'd rather go the opposite route, trade a guy like Letang, get at least two high end assets and maybe gain some cap space or an additional prospect.

 

[WayneSid9987]

ROR would be perfect if he was at a Duchene cap hit. Sadly he isn't. Not even sure Botteril would sell him if he blew things up there.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I just view ROR as a bit overrated and again that salary is just daunting. And, if we lose two players like Maatta and Sheary, we're gonna have to add another defensemen to level things out. I'd rather go the opposite route, trade a guy like Letang, get at least two high end assets and maybe gain some cap space or an additional prospect.

Overrated in what sense?

* He plays a solid 2-way game, in the Jordan Staal kind of way.
* His skating is fine for our game.
* He can produce 50-60pts.
* He can also play wing if you want to stack 2 monster lines of:
ROR, Crosby, Malkin
Hornqvist, Guentzel, Kessel.
* Has a lot of sandpaper in this game.

 

[Ryder71]

Overrated in what sense?

* He plays a solid 2-way game, in the Jordan Staal kind of way.
* His skating is fine for our game.
* He can produce 50-60pts.
* He can also play wing if you want to stack 2 monster lines of:
ROR, Crosby, Malkin
Hornqvist, Guentzel, Kessel.
* Has a lot of sandpaper in this game.

I don't believe his salary is indicative of his worth. He's a good player. I could see him as a six million dollar player. But not 7.5 mil. I just see him as overpaid. We have Rust, Horny, Jarry and Guentzel coming up for contracts this year or next. Even with the cap going up, I don't think that's a good way to aptly manage cap space.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

I mean if the Sens dealt with the Leafs, I think they would deal with the Pens. Both teams seem kinda desperate so.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Let's say you just do Maatta, Sheary and a 1st for O'Reilly. That likely leaves the Penguins with something like:

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Hagelin-ROR-Simon
Kuhnhackl-Sheahan-Archibald

Dumoulin-Letang
Cole-Schultz
Hunwick-Ruhwedel

From what I see in this lineup, these are the big issues I see with this roster:

1. Ideally you have a better 2nd pair LD than Cole, but then again, that pair worked well last year and it's very possible that pair could work again this year
2. Ideally you have a better bottom pair RD than Ruhwedel, but then again, Hunwick-Ruhwedel isn't a bad pair. It's just an okay 3rd pair
2. Ideally you have 2 better wingers than Hagelin and Simon on your 3rd line, but then again, you also have players from WBS that you can try and it doesn't matter who the wingers on your 3rd line are that much because you have a 1st line center as your 3C.

The defense can survive with that move, and if you have to, I think you can address the 2nd pair LD spot via trade, similar to how the Penguins added Hainsey last year. Your 3rd line wingers can probably be fixed internally, and even if they can't, I don't think you need to get that good of a 3rd line winger to fix that 3rd line, since ROR is so good.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Maybe Jiggy can answer this best, but for anyone who watches wbs, does Simon have a preferred wing? Hes here as a RW but I swore he was more of a LW in camp.

He can play both sides. I like him better on rw, but I prefer most guys on their off-wing.

He's really savvy with his stick fighting for pucks and can spin off a backhander without much effort, so that may be why Sullivan seems comfortable putting him there. He's also really feisty for his size and fights like a rabid dog hunting a bone when he's along the boards. Doesn't give up. Lots to love about him except his size and speed...

Listen, I said you can watch me on webcam only if you stayed quiet, we had a deal and I feel betrayed.

Last time I trust someone, I'll be returning your payment of Ho Ho's and Wagon Wheels shortly, sans a few packages.

I was going to cancel my monthly subscription anyway.

Got a new fetish... involves Pepto Bismol and a nail clipper... that's all I can really say without things getting weird...

 

[Shaffer]

Anyone one else excited about JR making a major move? He won’t make the trade unless we get better so I think we are fine.

 

[Ryder71]

I'd rather trade Letang for Haula, Schmidt and a 2hd rounder. You fill two holes and gain 2.3 mil in cap space, thus putting us in position to make another deal. I think that helps move the needle for us this year and beyond

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd rather trade Letang for Haula, Schmidt and a 2hd rounder. You fill two holes and gain 2.3 mil in cap space thus putting ourselves in position to make another deal. I think that helps move the needle for us this year and beyond

I really have a tough time seeing how trading a great player for lesser assets helps more than trading lesser assets for a great player. I would much rather add a quality guy that can be a single factor in fixing the team than adding multiple guys that might be able to be factors in fixing the team.

Teams who make quality for quantity trades usually end up losing on those trades.

 

[Ryder71]

I really have a tough time seeing how trading a great player for lesser assets helps more than trading lesser assets for a great player. I would much rather add a quality guy that can be a single factor in fixing the team than adding multiple guys that might be able to be factors in fixing the team.

Teams who make quality for quantity trades usually end up losing on those trades.

If you look at that deal in it's entirety that extra cap space gives us more latitude in making other deals. Haula is a very affordable and capable 3c. His salary is superb and helps us shore up other areas. In my scenario we gain a high end 3c, a 2hd rounder and get a capable, mobile defender in Schmidt. In short we'd have plenty more flexibility and options at our disposal than we do currently.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you look at that deal in it's entirety that extra cap space gives us more latitude in making other deals. Haula is a very affordable and capable 3c. His salary is superb and helps us shore up other areas. In my scenario we gain a high end 3c, a 2hd rounder and get a capable, mobile defender in Schmidt. In short we'd have plenty more flexibility and options at our disposal than we do currently.

Cap space is worthless as an asset if you don't have assets or trade targets to use the cap space with. People severely overestimate the value of "cap space" as an asset, it only has value if you need it, not as an nice thing to have.

Jim Rutherford doesn't want to make a trade, but it could...

Rutherford: "I don't want to trade anyone off the roster because of the loyalty that comes with winning consecutive championships."

That sounds like a phenomenally bad way to run a team, but I'm sure JR isn't actually going to stick by that idea.

 

[ColePens]

Anyone one else excited about JR making a major move? He won’t make the trade unless we get better so I think we are fine.

That's not how it will work. Just to let you know. Be cautiously optimistic but a trade doesn't guarantee we absolutely win.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Cap space is worthless as an asset if you don't have assets or trade targets to use the cap space with. People severely overestimate the value of "cap space" as an asset, it only has value if you need it, not as an nice thing to have.

Jim Rutherford doesn't want to make a trade, but it could...

Rutherford: "I don't want to trade anyone off the roster because of the loyalty that comes with winning consecutive championships."

That sounds like a phenomenally bad way to run a team, but I'm sure JR isn't actually going to stick by that idea.

That quote worries me.

It's been the downfall of many great people in the NHL, if JR wants to go down that path, enjoy the lack of success that will follow when it becomes stale.

 

[Ryder71]

Cap space is worthless as an asset if you don't have assets or trade targets to use the cap space with. People severely overestimate the value of "cap space" as an asset, it only has value if you need it, not as an nice thing to have.

Jim Rutherford doesn't want to make a trade, but it could...

Rutherford: "I don't want to trade anyone off the roster because of the loyalty that comes with winning consecutive championships."

That sounds like a phenomenally bad way to run a team, but I'm sure JR isn't actually going to stick by that idea.

If you have the extra cap space and say you want to bring in a winger like Kane. Let's say Kane for a 1st rounder as an example. You can easily fit him in and not have to ask the Sabres to retain. Thus the asset cost won't go up. That's sort of what I mean. That could also apply to a defensemen as well.

And if you're bidding for such a player, and you have extra cap room, as opposed to another team who's cap strapped, you'll have a leg up.

 

[Shaffer]

That's not how it will work. Just to let you know. Be cautiously optimistic but a trade doesn't guarantee we absolutely win.

I understand we might not win the trade, but JR said he wasn’t giving up on the season so I took that as he will make a trade if it makes the team better in the short term.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you have the extra cap space and say you want to bring in a winger like Kane. Let's say Kane for a 1st rounder as an example. You can easily fit him in and not have to ask the Sabres to retain. Thus the asset cost won't go up. That's sort of what I mean. That could also apply to a defensemen as well.

Yeah, but this can very easily turn into a situation like last year where Washington overpays for Shattenkirk so we don't get him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I understand we might not win the trade, but JR said he wasn’t giving up on the season so I took that as he will make a trade if it makes the team better in the short term.

He's also playing that loyalty angle, which makes me think the guy he does move, is going to be the wrong player we all wanted to see gone as the statement trade.

I like Letang, but man...his stubbornness and the fact that he seems to get his way every f***ing time with ice time and powerplay time, really really irks me on a team that desperately needs accountability to continue to be a real f***ing thing and not something that was around during Sully's 1st cup run.

 

[Ryder71]

Yeah, but this can very easily turn into a situation like last year where Washington overpays for Shattenkirk so we don't get him.

Possible, but I'd still rather have the added cap space. 2.3 mil now would be over five million I believe at the deadline. Plus what we currently have, so that's well over eight million in total.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Possible, but I'd still rather have the added cap space. 2.3 mil now would be over five million I believe at the deadline. Plus what we currently have, so that's well over seven million in total.

If you make the correct trades now, the cap space at the TDL doesn't need to be an issue.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Yeah, but this can very easily turn into a situation like last year where Washington overpays for Shattenkirk so we don't get him.

Sorta not really the same thing cuz high profile rentals are always sold to the highest bidder.
JR's looking for hockey trades to rebuild his roster on the fly.

 

[Ryder71]

If you make the correct trades now, the cap space at the TDL doesn't need to be an issue.

But what if he wants to make a deal now, see he needs to add a component near the deadline to fine tune things? That's certainly a possibility.