Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Tell me where it hurts you and I'll tell you who to call

[Shaffer]

He's also playing that loyalty angle, which makes me think the guy he does move, is going to be the wrong player we all wanted to see gone as the statement trade.

I like Letang, but man...his stubbornness and the fact that he seems to get his way every ****ing time with ice time and powerplay time, really really irks me on a team that desperately needs accountability to continue to be a real ****ing thing and not something that was around during Sully's 1st cup run.

I don’t believe Letang will be traded. I believe it’s Dumoulin and Sheary.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

But what if he wants to make a deal now, see he needs to add a component near the deadline to fine tune things? That's certainly a possibility.

You can free up cap space without moving Letang in an underwhelming trade.

Even if JR sends Hagelin + for Pouliot, we suddenly have 2m and some change. Then your whole "WE NEED SPACE!!" angle just gone and we still have LeCheveux.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don’t believe Letang will be traded. I believe it’s Dumoulin and Sheary.

I believe us losing Dumoulin is more likely than Maatta as well. Dumo just signed a new contract and they expected more offense out of his game and it really isn't coming and likely won't here. He's on pace for 7pts this season, that's his worst since becoming a regular.

Dumoulin probably holds more trade value than Maatta because he was playing top pairing minutes in back 2 back cups, can skate very well for a big man and he plays some tough assignments, a team will also like that he's locked up at 4m for 5 more years. I can see him being very enticing for pretty much 30 teams in this league.


I do like Petry and Pacioretty. IF the Habs are open for business, those would be some interesting pieces on the Pens.

 

[Ryder71]

You can free up cap space without moving Letang in an underwhelming trade.

Even if JR sends Hagelin + for Pouliot, we suddenly have 2m and some change. Then your whole "WE NEED SPACE!!" angle just gone and we still have LeCheveux.

I don't see that as an underwhelming trade. I see it as helping remedy multiple areas of need and giving up a player that while he has a world of talent, has a low hockey IQ and makes piss poor decisions with the puck game in and game out. You have no idea what he'll do from one game to the next. Apparently the coaching staff shares these concerns. I'd prefer proven stable commodities and futures, and of course additional cap space.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

That's not how it will work. Just to let you know. Be cautiously optimistic but a trade doesn't guarantee we absolutely win.

Yeah... if you look at JR's trades here.

Neal for Hornqvist and Spaling, the value was at best equal but Hornqvist
1st for Perron was fair when the pick was expected to be in the 20s and he was supposed to fit
Perron for Hagelin was fair but the Pens took on more years
The Kessel trade was a win, win, win
Scuderi for Daley Hahahahahahahahahahaha
Despres for Lovejoy was bad, it worked out but it was a bad value trade
Hainsey was fair enough
Streit was fair enough
Reaves trade was a loss
The Pouliot trade looks like a loss-ish
The Sheahan trade was at least fair but he’d been struggling for awhile.

A lot of his trades have worked out well because the6 won two cups but they weren’t necessarily value wins. It’s something to be fairly nervous about.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't see that as an underwhelming trade. I see it as helping remedy multiple areas of need and giving up a player that while he has a world of talent, has a low hockey IQ and makes piss poor decisions with the puck game in and game out. You have no idea what he'll do from one game to the next. Apparently the coaching staff shares these concerns. I'd prefer proven stable commodities and futures, and of course additional cap space.

At a low hockey IQ, Letang is still putting up points at a 60pt pace, which Schmidt (in a career year) is putting up half of with his current pace. That's a lot of production you are losing on the back end and we're not getting the best out of our defenders in that regard either.

Dumo is having a horrendous year by his standards offensively.
Maatta is finally on pace to eclipse his rookie year numbers of 29pts with a 33+ pt season.
Schultz was starting to pick up his play but with Letang gone, will likely get more powerplay time and get closer to 50pts (maybe 40~).

Schmidt and his 34-35pt season is nice on a 2nd pair, bu you don't trade a 1st pairing defender for a 3C and that. You just don't, regardless of how we feel about LeCheveaux.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think when looking at trades won vs trades lost, I think JR is in the positives. I'd probably say that the trades are about 7-2 in favor of wins vs losses for JR's trades. The losses were the Despres for Lovejoy trade and the Reaves trade. The wins were the Neal for Hornqvist trade (was a win-win deal), Bonino trade, Kessel trade, Daley trade, Perron for Hagelin (was a win-win deal), Schultz trade and Cole trade. The rest were either insignificant or not clear wins or losses.

If we're looking at big trades, JR is pretty much batting 1.000. All of the "big trades" he has made have paid off dramatically for the Penguins. If Rutherford is making a player for player deal with a significant player, I'd be confident in him doing well on the trade.

 

[Ryder71]

At a low hockey IQ, Letang is still putting up points at a 60pt pace, which Schmidt (in a career year) is putting up half of with his current pace. That's a lot of production you are losing on the back end and we're not getting the best out of our defenders in that regard either.

Dumo is having a horrendous year by his standards offensively.
Maatta is finally on pace to eclipse his rookie year numbers of 29pts with a 33+ pt season.
Schultz was starting to pick up his play but with Letang gone, will likely get more powerplay time and get closer to 50pts (maybe 40~).

Schmidt and his 34-35pt season is nice on a 2nd pair, bu you don't trade a 1st pairing defender for a 3C and that. You just don't, regardless of how we feel about LeCheveaux.

We can agree to disagree. I know we'd lose some production from the blue line. But if Shultz gets back he can also put up a good number of points, if you add in Schmidt and Maatta there's plenty of guys there that help offset his loss. Also, how many games has Letang single handedly cost us? Or, at least had a huge hand in us losing? I think that number is quite staggering. So, while we'd lose some production, we would gain with better and more solid defensive play. He currently is a huge liability in that regard.

 

[Coach Travis]

Too many good assets, plus ROR makes 7.5 mil per, too much for a 3c.

I don’t know, that’s like saying Phil Kessel’s $6.8M is too expensive for a 3rd Line RW.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think when looking at trades won vs trades lost, I think JR is in the positives. I'd probably say that the trades are about 7-2 in favor of wins vs losses for JR's trades. The losses were the Despres for Lovejoy trade and the Reaves trade. The wins were the Neal for Hornqvist trade (was a win-win deal), Bonino trade, Kessel trade, Daley trade, Perron for Hagelin (was a win-win deal), Schultz trade and Cole trade. The rest were either insignificant or not clear wins or losses.

If we're looking at big trades, JR is pretty much batting 1.000. All of the "big trades" he has made have paid off dramatically for the Penguins. If Rutherford is making a player for player deal with a significant player, I'd be confident in him doing well on the trade.

I think we lost the Pouliot trade too, unless Pedan or that 4th magically turn into something serviceable.

 

[Ryder71]

I don’t know, that’s like saying Phil Kessel’s $6.8M is too expensive for a 3rd Line RW.

I view Kessel as a higher caliber player than ROR. Again, I don't hate him, but I do think he's over priced. Kessel has proven a lot more in his career, almost never misses a game and currently is playing at a career high level.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We can agree to disagree. I know we'd lose some production from the blue line. But if Shultz gets back he can also put up a good number of points, if you add in Schmidt and Maatta there's plenty of guys there that help offset his loss. Also, how many games has Letang single handedly cost us? Or, at least had a huge hand in a loss? I think that number is quite staggering. So, while we'd lose some production, we would gain with better and more solid defensive play. He currently is a huge liability in that regard.

I'd say there's an even amount of blame of single-handedly costing us wins between the likes of Crosby, Letang, Murray, Maatta, Sullivan, and couple of others.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think we lost the Pouliot trade too, unless Pedan or that 4th magically turn into something serviceable.

The Penguins didn't lose that trade because Pouliot was never going to become anything in Pittsburgh. The Penguins don't lose a trade based on what Pouliot does after leaving Pittsburgh, because he was never going to do what he has done if he would have stayed with the Penguins.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I view Kessel as a higher caliber player than ROR. Again, I don't hate him, but I do think he's over priced. Kessel has proven a lot more in his career, almost never misses a game and currently is playing at a career high level.

ROR is definitely over priced, but that doesn't change the fact that he'd be an immense player on this team and that he'd be a great add if JR can swing it while dumping enough contracts that add up to ROR.

Like is moving Hagelin, Sheary, Dumoulin, + someone else for ROR, Beaulieu, and Pouiot a bad thing?


Guentzel, Crosby, Hornqvist
Pouliot, Malkin, Kessel
Simon, ROR, Rust/Sprong
Kuhnhackl, Sheahan, Rowney/Reaves/Archibald

Maatta, Letang
Cole, Schultz
Beaulieu, Hunwick/Ruhwedel/Corrado

 

[Ryder71]

I'd say there's an even amount of blame of single-handedly costing us wins between the likes of Crosby, Letang, Murray, Maatta, Sullivan, and couple of others.

We see it very differently. There's plenty of blame to go around but Letang is the head honcho when it comes to playing below expectations.

 

[Ryder71]

ROR is definitely over priced, but that doesn't change the fact that he'd be an immense player on this team and that he'd be a great add if JR can swing it while dumping enough contracts that add up to ROR.

Like is moving Hagelin, Sheary, Dumoulin, + someone else for ROR, Beaulieu, and Pouiot a bad thing?


Guentzel, Crosby, Hornqvist
Pouliot, Malkin, Kessel
Simon, ROR, Rust/Sprong
Kuhnhackl, Sheahan, Rowney/Reaves/Archibald

Maatta, Letang
Cole, Schultz
Beaulieu, Hunwick/Ruhwedel/Corrado

That's not terrible value, but it doesn't really do much for me. I wouldn't hate it, I wouldn't love it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We see it very differently. There's plenty of blame to go around but Letang is the head honcho when it comes to playing below expectations.

Letang might be having a very up and down season in his own end, production wise he's still at a 60pt pace.

Crosby is on pace for his lowest point total while playing almost every game, also makes moronic blind passes and gives up on plays. Murray has let in so many soft goals, Marc-Andre Fleury laughs at him.

Etc, etc.

I can see you have tunnel vision for who you want to point fingers at, don't dare say I have tunnel vision.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also, I'd probably add this. If Sheary gets traded for a center, I think Sprong would get recalled at that point. He's not producing like you'd want him to with WBS so far (he is at 14 goals and 21 points in 23 games, he has a ton of PP goals and PP points) and his defensive game needs work, but I think they'd call him up the second a top-9 spot opens up. It's just a question of how you fit in all of those players into the lineup. With trading Sheary, that means Simon, Guentzel and Rust are your LWers and you don't have that much wiggle room to change that.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's not terrible value, but it doesn't really do much for me. I wouldn't hate it, I wouldn't love it.

Usually indicates both sides getting what they want.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

We see it very differently. There's plenty of blame to go around but Letang is the head honcho when it comes to playing below expectations.

And yet hes still better than almost everyone else. You dont trade that unless your getting something elite back

 

[Ryder71]

Letang might be having a very up and down season in his own end, production wise he's still at a 60pt pace.

Crosby is on pace for his lowest point total while playing almost every game, also makes moronic blind passes and gives up on plays. Murray has let in so many soft goals, Marc-Andre Fleury laughs at him.

Etc, etc.

I can see you have tunnel vision for who you want to point fingers at, don't dare say I have tunnel vision.

I'm not saying other players including Sid aren't to blame. But there's no use in talking about it because he will never be traded.

And while MM hasn't been good at times there are stretches he was our best player. With Letang you'll have two or three decent to good games and then he'll soil the bed five or six games at a time. He's by far the biggest hindrance to this team as far as core players. And if the rumblings we're hearing about Letang not listening to the coaching staff. All the more reason to move him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And yet hes still better than almost everyone else. You dont trade that unless your getting something elite back

Dumoulin is who I would move Schmidt + for, even if you want Haula, you can still try to aim for him (which might mean more assets), but you don't move Letang for both.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

At this point, if all JR does is trade Hagelin + 1st for Pouliot and Beaulieu...I'm ok with him waiting until the deadline for the next move.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think if you're going after Schmidt, you offer Vegas Maatta for Schmidt and Haula straight up and work from there. And even then, I'm not all that enthused about that deal because Schmidt and Haula are free agents relatively soon.

I don't think Dumoulin is the guy that gets traded, I think Maatta has more value than Dumoulin and Dumoulin fits the Penguins system better than Maatta does. I do think Maatta is better than Dumoulin, but I think Maatta would be more likely to be traded than Dumoulin.

 

[Ryder71]

Usually indicates both sides getting what they want.

I don't think it's bad value at all. I just am indifferent. lol