Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Preseason Edition (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[DesertPenguin]

You need some more context. It's been 4 games. The Caps are 2-2-1 and lost 6-0 to New Jersey. **** happens in this league. We need a bigger sample size before saying this team isn't a contender.

I forget if this is GMJR's method or if it was Shero's, but one of them used to say they split the season into 20 game blocks and evaluated them as a group. We are working on getting our game right, settling new players into new positions, adding two new defensemen now in Johnson and Riikola. If we get to the 20 game mark and are sitting around 10-10, i'll be worried and it might be time to talk roster moves. In the mean time though, you keep coaching and keep working. There aren't many teams at this point in the season willing to make a deal anyway unless its a huge overpayment.

 

[Riptide]

(I think the stats might look closer if we did shots blocked as a percentage of shots on target)

I was thinking along the same lines... but after running the numbers, it quickly became obvious that the difference wasn't significant in any way. We had a few additional shots on net against, and a few more blocks per game. But I was expecting something big... and it wasn't. I even played with the start date a little to see if that changed things (giving Sully's system time to take effect), and that didn't really seem to matter at all.

I think the only take away from an increase in blocked shots now (and last season) and greater shots against, is the fact that it means we're not containing them in the OZ as much as we were down the stretch in 15/16.
So in that sense, yes someone like Shattenkirk would help us. But I think I'd still rather try and find guys inbetween that extreme (going from Maatta to Shatty), who could both defend and help maintain possession and move the puck. Which is why I'd love to find a prime Martin. Or perhaps someone like Gogo, Green (who was receiving a lot of praise for his D game last season), Tanev, etc. Not nearly as good offensively as Shattenkirk... but someone who won't be completely lost in the DZ either.

Problem is we're reaching the point where our weaknesses are beginning to lessen our strengths. We can mask the effects of puck movement from the back (and there was a good article in a Dallas paper about Oleksiak's success here which pointed out the extent to which our forwards led our breakouts) but we can't mask continually permitting clean zone entries. And tbh, preventing those is going to do more for breakouts than any amount of PMD. Better to have Dumo making breakout passes under little pressure than Letang trying to make the pass with two guys all over him.

Any chance you have a link to this?

 

[Riptide]

It’s sounds crazy but just remember that no team has ever won the Cup with more than four 30+ aged regular players...when you look at how the speed and youth of the game has increased in the last few years, it’s not as crazy as it seems....would you have thought MTL this year and NJD last year could beat us so decisively? We all were dreading the possibility of facing NJD in the POs last year....

Detroit in 2008 (only team I bothered to look at) says hi. [Edit] Carolina with 10 30+ players also says hi. [/edit]

Age (as of Feb 1) and number of RS and PO games.

Chelios (46) 69/14
Rafalski (34) 73/22
Lidstrom (37) 76/22
Holmstrom (35) 59/21
Samuelsson (31) 73/22
Drake (38) 65/22
Lilja (32) 79/12
Maltby (35) 61/12
Draper (36) 65/22
Osgood (35) 43/19
Hasek (43) 41/4


I think the more recent winners are flawed examples given that Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA have won 8 of the last 10 cups (BOS and WSH having the other two).

 

[Riptide]

I know in the injury thread, people are talking about getting to "bank cap space". Unfortunately it doesn't really work that way. Looking at the Schultz injury from that angle, this actually hurts us.

For example, lets say we have 22 players on the roster and 1m in cap space (with Schultz healthy). We would bank that 1m (assuming no more injuries or call ups) and at the TD could acquire someone in the 4m range without any retention. Now Schultz hurts himself. Lets say we put him on IR. Now we have 1m in cap space with 21 players on the roster. With no other injuries we still will have 4m to play with come the TD.

BUT if we call someone up, that lessens our cap space from 1m to 350k. Which means at the TD, we'd only have 1-1.5m to play with. And if we put Schultz on LTIR (which would give us ~6m or so for now), we could potentially run into issues when Schultz comes back. And even if we don't, we wouldn't get to bank any of that 1m we currently have as that only banks (or grows/pro rates if you will) while we're under the cap. The moment we go into LTIR space that no longer happens. This is why contending teams moved guys like Pronger and Savard. Not because of the salary, but because of how this impacted their ability to best use their cap space down the stretch.

About the only good thing from the Schultz injury is that we will get to see Riikola and to a lesser extent Oleksiak play regular games for the next 4 months. It also means Ruhwedel will also get some games in. Not that that is a big deal, but it would be good to know where he's at should we need him later on.

 

[Peat]

@Riptide - Did Jamie Oleksiak improve with the Pittsburgh Penguins? - think that's the one.

 

[Ryder71]

Can't you say that about nearly every playoff team?

I don't think so. There are realistically five or six teams that could win the cup. I don't believe every team that enters the post season has a real strong chance at winning it all.

I'll also say that the Penguins are kind of a quirky team when it comes to their performances. I think it's much harder to accurately gauge just what level of execution this team will exhibit on a game in game out basis. I think other chief contenders are more ''honest'' when it comes to their compete level. We can look like world beaters one game, and the next game we can look like road kill.

 

[Gurglesons]

@Riptide - Did Jamie Oleksiak improve with the Pittsburgh Penguins? - think that's the one.

Very good read.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't think so. There are realistically five or six teams that could win the cup. I don't believe every team that enters the post season has a real strong chance at winning it all.

I'll also say that the Penguins are kind of a quirky team when it comes to their performances. I think it's much harder to accurately gauge just what level of execution this team will exhibit on a game in game out basis. I think other chief contenders are more ''honest'' when it comes to their compete level. We can look like world beaters one game, and the next game we can look like road kill.

Okay let me rephrase, can't you say that about nearly every contender? For that matter, who do you eve see as contenders right now that you are more sue about than the Pens?

The Cup champs were swept by the Devils 6-0 the other night and are 2-2-1. It's too early in the season to draw too many conclusions about any team, but on paper, the Pens are contenders and we will see what happens. Same thing can be said about the Caps, Bolts, Bruins, whoever else in the East and whoever is a contender out West, which is yet to be determined IMO. People were hailing the Blues offseason and they are 1-2-2. Vegas was poised to go back if you talked to some pundits and they are 2-4.

 

[Riptide]

Okay let me rephrase, can't you say that about nearly every contender? For that matter, who do you eve see as contenders right now that you are more sue about than the Pens?

The Cup champs were swept by the Devils 6-0 the other night and are 2-2-1. It's too early in the season to draw too many conclusions about any team, but on paper, the Pens are contenders and we will see what happens. Same thing can be said about the Caps, Bolts, Bruins, whoever else in the East and whoever is a contender out West, which is yet to be determined IMO. People were hailing the Blues offseason and they are 1-2-2. Vegas was poised to go back if you talked to some pundits and they are 2-4.

Exactly. On paper, Pittsburgh is one of (if not the) deepest team in the league. And if someone was going to start naming contenders, we're going to be one of the top 2-3 teams named. What happens on the ice is a different matter... but that doesn't change the fact that we are one of the few true contenders in the league.

 

[Ryder71]

Okay let me rephrase, can't you say that about nearly every contender? For that matter, who do you eve see as contenders right now that you are more sue about than the Pens?

The Cup champs were swept by the Devils 6-0 the other night and are 2-2-1. It's too early in the season to draw too many conclusions about any team, but on paper, the Pens are contenders and we will see what happens. Same thing can be said about the Caps, Bolts, Bruins, whoever else in the East and whoever is a contender out West, which is yet to be determined IMO. People were hailing the Blues offseason and they are 1-2-2. Vegas was poised to go back if you talked to some pundits and they are 2-4.

My concerns with the Pens go back to last season. Remember all the uneven efforts? I'm talking about the end of the season +playoffs. The first game we beat Philly 7-0, but it took us six games to prevail. I know injuries are a legitimate and contributing factor as to why we lost. But I still believe we were consistently inconsistent. More so than the Caps, or the Bolts, or Vegas etc.

Just to encapsulate my perspective I'll say that we're more a Jekyll and Hyde than other main contenders.

 

[Andy99]

Detroit in 2008 (only team I bothered to look at) says hi. [Edit] Carolina with 10 30+ players also says hi. [/edit]

Age (as of Feb 1) and number of RS and PO games.

Chelios (46) 69/14
Rafalski (34) 73/22
Lidstrom (37) 76/22
Holmstrom (35) 59/21
Samuelsson (31) 73/22
Drake (38) 65/22
Lilja (32) 79/12
Maltby (35) 61/12
Draper (36) 65/22
Osgood (35) 43/19
Hasek (43) 41/4


I think the more recent winners are flawed examples given that Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA have won 8 of the last 10 cups (BOS and WSH having the other two).

I should have been more specific....the stat this is quoted from involves forwards only over 30, not D or goalies because they can still be effective at older ages....and it involves the players who weren’t just backups but played regularly, key members...but even looking at that, you’re right in that the Wings and Hurricanes each had 5 regular forwards who were over 30 playing in the SCF...Holmstrom, Draper. samuelsson, drake, McCarty and Brind’ Amour, Stillman, Recchi, Weight and Whitney....there may be teams during the ‘70s, ‘80s, who knows...it was a different time for hockey but I don’t think we’re going to see that many 30+ rosters again the way things are going...

If the Pens make it to the SCF as constituted, we would have 6 regular forwards 30+....Sid, Geno, Brass, Cullen, Kessel, Horny (not to mention Hags at age 30)

 

[Shady Machine]

My concerns with the Pens go back to last season. Remember all the uneven efforts? I'm talking about the end of the season +playoffs. The first game we beat Philly 7-0, but it took us six games to prevail. I know injuries are a legitimate and contributing factor as to why we lost. But I still believe we were consistently inconsistent. More so than the Caps, or the Bolts, or Vegas etc.

Just to encapsulate my perspective I'll say that we're more a Jekyll and Hyde than other main contenders.

Don't totally disagree but who are the other "main contenders"?

 

[Peat]

Since I got curious...

Tampa have won 2 games, one super convincingly and one shoot out win vs Florida, and have a 4-1 loss to Vancouver.

The Jets have won 3 games (but gave up over 40 shots in 2 of them) and lost two, scoring only one goal in them and conceding 8 goals in the process. They've managed to keep the opposition under 30 shots once.

The Caps have won 2, lost 1 in overtime, lost 2, conceded 4 of more goals 3 times.

The Sharks have 2 wins, 1 OT loss, 3 losses. No huge losses but 4-0 to the Islanders and 5-2 to Anaheim aren't proud moments.

Preds and Leafs have sarted the season like they were shot out of a cannon, but they're in the minority of true contenders. And 10 teams have managed to concede 7 or more goals, which is so far something we've avoided.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't think so. There are realistically five or six teams that could win the cup. I don't believe every team that enters the post season has a real strong chance at winning it all.

I'll also say that the Penguins are kind of a quirky team when it comes to their performances. I think it's much harder to accurately gauge just what level of execution this team will exhibit on a game in game out basis. I think other chief contenders are more ''honest'' when it comes to their compete level. We can look like world beaters one game, and the next game we can look like road kill.

I really think that's true of more teams than people think. The Caps just got stomped by the Devils worse than we did by Montreal. Every team can beat every other team in this league.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Personally, for me, I don't really care about the Caps, Preds, Jets, etc. I care that this team is still unable or unwilling to address and correct issues it's been facing for more than a calendar year now. It's not frustration because of our record through a couple games, it's frustration because we're still embarrassingly bad in our own zone and in the neutral zone--the latter refers to when we have the puck as well as defending.

And I know we'll never be an insanely strong team defensively. But we have the guys to not be so woefully awful when it comes to defensive and neutral zone play.

 

[Riptide]

Since I got curious...

<snipe>

Preds and Leafs have sarted the season like they were shot out of a cannon, but they're in the minority of true contenders. And 10 teams have managed to concede 7 or more goals, which is so far something we've avoided.

It's just so hard to get all that worked up over a 4 game sample size (although I do get the point you're making). The Schultz injury is worrying (why couldn't it have been Maatta???). But overall we're talking about 4 games. Come back in a month and lets see where we're at and how we're playing. The biggest thing for us between now and 20 games from now is how much improvement we see game to game (or week to week), and how consistent we are.

As @Andy99 said, we have an annoying habit of being maddeningly inconsistent on a fairly regular basis. We need to find a way to even things out. That said... I'm sure the same applies to other teams as well... we just don't watch them enough to see it the same way we see the Pens.

 

[strandvag]

Would the Hawks trade A struggling Saad for a struggling Maata? Change of scenery? He is a healthy scratch for them.

 

[Ryder71]

I really think that's true of more teams than people think. The Caps just got stomped by the Devils worse than we did by Montreal. Every team can beat every other team in this league.

TBH I think the Devils are gonna be a very dangerous team this season. Montreal not so much.

But to be clear my issue with the Pens is more about what I saw from them since TDL LAST YEAR. Every team has it's ups and downs, I'm not disputing that. But I think ours are a bit more radical. I think we have a higher probability of shooting ourselves in the foot than the Caps, Jets, or TB for example.

 

[Gurglesons]

Would the Hawks trade A struggling Saad for a struggling Maata? Change of scenery? He is a healthy scratch for them.

Can’t really afford to trade Maatta with Schultz going down..

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Would the Hawks trade A struggling Saad for a struggling Maata? Change of scenery? He is a healthy scratch for them.

Would do that in a heartbeat. I don't know if Chicago would, but if you'd have told me that we got Daley for Scuderi I'd have laughed in your face too, so who knows...

I do think Maatta would be much better in the Western Conference. Seems like the West is slower at adopting the speed/skill mentality.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think the Devils are gonna be a very dangerous team this season. Montreal not so much.

But to be clear my issue with the Pens is more about what I saw from them since TDL LAST YEAR. Every team has it's ups and downs, I'm not disputing that. But I think ours are a bit more radical. I think we have a higher probability of shooting ourselves in the foot than the Caps, Jets, or TB fr example.

I'd be interested to actually check in to that. Sadly, I'm too lazy to actually do it I would guess it's somewhat true over that time since those three teams did incredibly well last year, but I bet it's not really a very big difference. Tampa looked pretty rough in the playoffs last year vs the Caps just like we did. The Jets were great against the Preds, and then fell completely flat against Vegas.

 

[Ryder71]

Personally, for me, I don't really care about the Caps, Preds, Jets, etc. I care that this team is still unable or unwilling to address and correct issues it's been facing for more than a calendar year now. It's not frustration because of our record through a couple games, it's frustration because we're still embarrassingly bad in our own zone and in the neutral zone--the latter refers to when we have the puck as well as defending.

And I know we'll never be an insanely strong team defensively. But we have the guys to not be so woefully awful when it comes to defensive and neutral zone play.

Our gap and our positioning in the neutral zone has been abysmal! It's as if we're in pre season mode and have not exhibited much discipline or structure when it comes to those assignments. We're also turning the puck over at an alarming rate when we aren't even getting much pressure. We have the time and space to outlet it up, or even have the ability to skate it out of the D zone. Instead we're feeding the oppositions transition or out and out coughing it up just inside our blue line ala Geno with Oshie. This is beyond silly and lazy!

 

[Ryder71]

I'd be interested to actually check in to that. Sadly, I'm too lazy to actually do it I would guess it's somewhat true over that time since those three teams did incredibly well last year, but I bet it's not really a very big difference. Tampa looked pretty rough in the playoffs last year vs the Caps just like we did. The Jets were great against the Preds, and then fell completely flat against Vegas.

MAF played out of his mind for three rounds. But I don't think the Jets imploded. They just ran into a hot goalie and a very opportunistic team. The problem for Vegas was the Caps were even more opportunistic.

 

[Ogrezilla]

MAF played out of his mind for three rounds. But I don't think the Jets imploded. They just ran into a hot goalie and a very opportunistic team. The problem for Vegas was the Caps were even more opportunistic.

I know it's not really what you're trying to say, but this just feels like a common thing that happens here. It seems like the Caps are credited with being very good to beat everyone else, but we had to be bad for the Caps to beat us. Like they didn't have that agency to win the games against us, we had to lose them.

 

[Riptide]

Our gap and our positioning in the neutral zone has been abysmal! It's as if we're in pre season mode and have not exhibited much discipline or structure when it comes to those assignments. We're also turning the puck over at an alarming rate when we aren't even getting much pressure. We have the time and space to outlet it up, or even have the ability to skate it out of the D zone. Instead we're feeding the oppositions transition or out and out coughing it up just inside our blue line ala Geno with Oshie. This is beyond silly and lazy!

4 games.