Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[RizzleMcRib]

Okay.

He's a non-entity when not getting carried by Sid. He's disappeared and been wholly inept in the playoffs three years in a row. He can't play in a tight-checking, physical environment. He's making too big a chunk of change to play on the 4th line. He's infinitely better at RW, and we're overly crowded in that position. We have a replacement with a better upside and better natural ability as far as shooting goes in Sprong. He's woeful defensively.

I didn't know I had to point it all out. /shrug

He's nothing here. I doubt he even has any value as an asset, but he should be dumped asap.

At 5v5, he actually had as many points away from Crosby as he does with Crosby. (Last year)

 

[Peat]

At 5v5, he actually had as many points away from Crosby as he does with Crosby. (Last year)

Yet another season of having a stronger p/60 away from the only guy he has any chemistry with. Truly he is a marvel of the modern age

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Why do the Penguins need a prospect like Sprong? They're completely filled on RW, with having arguably 3 top-6 RWers. The spot that Sprong would play on the powerplay is currently occupied by Kessel, and even without Kessel, they have guys who can be effective in that role (mainly Schultz or Letang). Sprong plays a position of strength within the organization and his biggest strength is wasted as long as the Penguins keep Kessel. Now, you also have to add on that Sullivan doesn't like Sprong.

And on the next part, I don't really know how you can legitimately say that. If you want more creativity in your bottom-6, you want Domi over Sprong. Sprong isn't a creative player, Domi is. Sprong's a guy you put with a creative player and he scores a bunch of goals because of it, he's not a guy that creates offense like Domi is. Adding Domi to the team is adding new blood, so I don't get that point either.

I have yet to see an actual reason for why the Penguins need to keep Sprong. He's not liked by his coaching staff, he only plays RW when the Penguins are extremely deep at RW and his ability on the powerplay is wasted as long as the Penguins have Kessel. So what's the point of keeping him over trading him for a guy that actually fills a need for the team? It just doesn't make any sense from any point of view to say no to trading Sprong for a more proven, young top-6 LWer with high upside.



How can you seriously say that Sheary is more consistent than Simon? What the hell? Sheary's biggest issue more than anything else is that he's insanely inconsistent.

You've been advocating that we need to unload Kessel either this offseason or next. The most cautious thing to do, and possibly the smartest, is just to move Rust to LW for this year (or fill in for any injured top 9 RW's) and see what we've got in Sprong. That helps to inform our decision on Kessel for next year.

Yeah, we do need a better fit on LW. But right now our depth is Guentzel, Hagelin, and possibly Rust/Sheary on LW. And we only really need a 3rd wheel on that side with the RW's we've got. We should be able to find that without giving up Sprong.

And we don't absolutely need that LW fit until the trade deadline next year. Although Domi is a good player, his defensive game isn't exactly conducive to covering for a Geno/Phil pairing. I'm just not convinced that's the guy you need for fit, and we'd be paying an awfully heavy price with Sprong+ to find out.

 

[DesertPenguin]

There's also no reason we can't play Sprong at LW. Ovechkin kills it as a RHS on the left side. It will weaken Sprong's defensive and breakout game a tad, but those aspects, while important and worth working on, aren't what will sign his paychecks. A Sprong - Brassard - Rust 3rd line could be lethal, with Brass and Rusty handling the defensive and neutral zone responsibilities.

Or run Rust - Brass - Sprong. Either way it will work.

 

[billybudd]

At 5v5, he actually had as many points away from Crosby as he does with Crosby. (Last year)

Sheary? That's been true since he came up. He's as likely to score a goal playing with 87 as he is playing with Rowney or whoever. Quality of his game seems to be dictated by whether or not he wakes up as a butterfingers on any particular day, not who he's collaborating with.

There's an argument to move him, but that argument would revolve around the fact that during his (long) cold streaks, he does nothing at all to help. Idea that he's a product of Crosby is a misconception.

Sheary's legitimately a 15-20 goal scorer in his own right--but he hurts you when he's not scoring them.

 

[Turin]

There's also no reason we can't play Sprong at LW. Ovechkin kills it as a RHS on the left side. It will weaken Sprong's defensive and breakout game a tad, but those aspects, while important and worth working on, aren't what will sign his paychecks. A Sprong - Brassard - Rust 3rd line could be lethal, with Brass and Rusty handling the defensive and neutral zone responsibilities.

Or run Rust - Brass - Sprong. Either way it will work.

There are likely numerous reasons why nobody wants to put Sprong on the left. It usually hurts the players game in every way besides one-timers.

 

[billybudd]

Yet another season of having a stronger p/60 away from the only guy he has any chemistry with. Truly he is a marvel of the modern age

I don't have the numbers, but from memory, it seems to me that Sheary does click with Rust.

Edit: click is too strong. Sheary only clicks with Sheary. Might be better to say he's produced when out there with Rust, whether it's the fourth line or first.

That said, he's also scored at times with Wilson and Kuhnhackl, usually on individual plays.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Sheary? That's been true since he came up. He's as likely to score a goal playing with 87 as he is playing with Rowney or whoever.

There's an argument to move him, but that argument would revolve around the fact that during his (long) cold streaks, he does nothing at all to help. Idea that he's a product of Crosby is a misconception.

Sheary's legitimately a 15-20 goal scorer in his own right--but he hurts you when he's not scoring them.

Oh, I agree with you 100%.

 

[Peat]

I don't have the numbers, but from memory, it seems to me that Sheary does click with Rust. Or at least not step on each others' toes.

Lies and blasphemy. He is a product of Sid and Sid alone and how dare you question it

 

[DesertPenguin]

There are likely numerous reasons why nobody wants to put Sprong on the left. It usually hurts the players game in every way besides one-timers.

I think it's more important for a grinder type like Rust to be on his strong side for defensive play, breakouts, forecheck etc, than it is for a skill/shoot first guy like Sprong. There are plenty of shooters in the league that prefer their off wing for that reason. I want Sprong to shoot, and he should have no problem doing that from his off wing.

 

[Peat]

You've been advocating that we need to unload Kessel either this offseason or next. The most cautious thing to do, and possibly the smartest, is just to move Rust to LW for this year (or fill in for any injured top 9 RW's) and see what we've got in Sprong. That helps to inform our decision on Kessel for next year.

Or play Sprong on a scoring line, but with 4th line ES minutes (until he earns more), with Rust on the 4th line, but him and Sheahan getting double shifted with Sid/Geno to give them more minutes.

I think its odds on we do move one of Sprong or Kessel this summer. But if we don't, there's a bunch of ways for it all work out.

 

[Andy99]

Madden was apparently interviewed by DK yesterday and said the Pens are looking to get a top 5 draft pick in this year’s draft....anyone read/listen/watch this interview?

Trading partner? BUF’s not giving up Dahlin....others are CAR, MTL, OTT and ARI....Kessel (+) ? for Domi and the fifth pick? But the #5 pick is a crapshoot...there’s only two top players ready now for the NHL...after that there are only question marks....can’t see this working out in any fashion that makes sense for the Pens...

 

[Empoleon8771]

You've been advocating that we need to unload Kessel either this offseason or next. The most cautious thing to do, and possibly the smartest, is just to move Rust to LW for this year (or fill in for any injured top 9 RW's) and see what we've got in Sprong. That helps to inform our decision on Kessel for next year.

You also end up a worse team in the short run by doing this and you force Rust into a position that he's less effective in. People say that they can't trade Kessel because they'll become worse next season, but they also advocate keeping Sprong and making the team worse? Doesn't make sense to me.

Yeah, we do need a better fit on LW. But right now our depth is Guentzel, Hagelin, and possibly Rust/Sheary on LW. And we only really need a 3rd wheel on that side with the RW's we've got. We should be able to find that without giving up Sprong.

If you're not going to give up Sprong or another similarly high value asset, you're not getting an upgrade on what you have already. That LW group is extremely mediocre, and you'll likely see it take another hit with trading one of Hagelin or Sheary (probably Sheary). LW is probably the clearest weakness of the team in terms of position (so comparing LW to C, LD, RD and such), you're not going to improve it any tangible amount by just poking at it.

Now, if Rust was actually as effective on LW as he is on RW, you'd be perfect on LW. But he's not. One of Sprong, Kessel or Rust needs to go out for an actual LW improvement, you either do that or your LW depth is an issue.

And we don't absolutely need that LW fit until the trade deadline next year. Although Domi is a good player, his defensive game isn't exactly conducive to covering for a Geno/Phil pairing. I'm just not convinced that's the guy you need for fit, and we'd be paying an awfully heavy price with Sprong+ to find out.

A. I don't think you're paying a heavy price on Domi. And even if he doesn't work out as that 3rd wheel to Malkin and Kessel, why is that the only role he can work in? Why not LW with Malkin and Rust? Why not with Sid, where Guentzel slides down to play with Malkin and Kessel?
B. You're also not mentioning the risk that comes with not even knowing if Sprong is a NHL player. I'd rather gamble on Domi, a guy who's firmly established in the NHL, being effective here than Sprong.
C. There's also no guarantee that you're going to be able to pull off an actual LW upgrade for the cost that Domi would probably cost you in the offseason.

I feel like people are either really overrating Sprong or underrating Domi. Domi is only like a year older than Sprong and has proven to be a top-6 player already.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Madden was apparently interviewed by DK yesterday and said the Pens are looking to get a top 5 draft pick in this year’s draft....anyone read/listen/watch this interview?

Trading partner? BUF’s not giving up Dahlin....others are CAR, MTL, OTT and ARI....Kessel (+) ? for Domi and the fifth pick? But the #5 pick is a crapshoot...there’s only two top players ready now for the NHL...after that there are only question marks....can’t see this working out in any fashion that makes sense for the Pens...

Madden is a blowhard more often than not. I pay no attention to him.

 

[Peat]

Madden was apparently interviewed by DK today and said the Pens are looking to get a top 5 draft pick in this year’s draft....anyone read/listen/watch this interview?

Trading partner? BUF’s not giving up Dahlin....others are CAR, MTL, OTT and ARI....Kessel (+) ? for Domi and the fifth pick? But the #5 pick is a crapshoot...there’s only two top players ready now for the NHL...after that there are only question marks....can’t see this working out in any fashion that makes sense for the Pens...

a) I will acknowledge now that I'm addressing near definite hooey and that my time would be more productively spent debating which of Gandalf and Obi Wan wins a duel to the death

b) Carolina/Montreal aren't moving their picks for anything less than a true 1C at a guess. That leaves Ottawa and Arizona. I can't speculate about Ottawa because I can't discern logic patterns in the insane. Which leaves the trade you mention.

c) It is a crapshoot, but high risk = high reward. Getting a guy like Boqvist/Bouchard to hit and hit quick frees you from having to extend Schultz and paves the way for moving Letang like nothing else on earth. If Rutherford is serious about wanting to extend the Crosby/Malkin window as long as possible, it'd be huge. How it effects the here and now? Depends how smart you are spending the extra cap. And how high Domi and Sprong get to their ceilings here.

d) Gandalf and Obi Wan would simply refuse to fight but thinking about that duel would still have been a better use of my time.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Madden was apparently interviewed by DK yesterday and said the Pens are looking to get a top 5 draft pick in this year’s draft....anyone read/listen/watch this interview?

Trading partner? BUF’s not giving up Dahlin....others are CAR, MTL, OTT and ARI....Kessel (+) ? for Domi and the fifth pick? But the #5 pick is a crapshoot...there’s only two top players ready now for the NHL...after that there are only question marks....can’t see this working out in any fashion that makes sense for the Pens...

Had a listen and he said he talked to JR at good length recently and it seems to DK, that JR's intent on revamping what he has without moving big names. Likely what we've been discussing here about more 2-way depth guys/guys to eat tougher minutes on D.

DK then said he's heard they're looking to move up in the draft for a guy that can play immediately so he said top 5.

Those 2 things don't really jive with each other.

 

[Peat]

Had a listen and he said he talked to JR at good length recently and it seems to DK, that JR's intent on revamping what he has without moving big names. Likely what we've been discussing here about more 2-way depth guys/guys to eat tougher minutes on D.

DK then said he's heard they're looking to move up in the draft for a guy that can play immediately so he said top 5.

Those 2 things don't really jive with each other.

Normally I'd point at the journo, but given this is far from the first example of there being two different contradictory stories of Rutherford's intentions, maybe this time I wouldn't.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, the only way you're getting a top-5 pick is by trading Kessel to Arizona, and even then, the Coyotes GM said that they're not interested in trading the pick this year. I don't see how they can get a top-5 pick otherwise.

Also, to get a guy to play immediately, you likely need a top-3 pick, not just a top-5 pick. Dahlin and Svechnikov are the only guaranteed NHL ready players in this draft.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I COULD see a potential #3 + Petry for Letang as the base. Dunno...
If theres some pressure from Sid/G/Sully to move on from Letang, i can see the attempt there.
Theres no top flight C available at the top of this draft for MTL and MTL is no doubt on Tanger's approved list.

Let's have some fun in our down time here.
What would your #3 pick be if Dahlin+Svech went 1/2...?

 

[Peat]

I COULD see a potential #3 + Petry for Letang as the base. Dunno...
If theres some pressure from Sid/G/Sully to move on from Letang, i can see the attempt there.
Theres no top flight C available at the top of this draft for MTL and MTL is no doubt on Tanger's approved list.

Let's have some fun in our down time here.
What would your #3 pick be if Dahlin+Svech went 1/2...?

Auction off the right to pick Zadina at 3 to the highest bidder among 4-6.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I COULD see a potential #3 + Petry for Letang as the base. Dunno...
If theres some pressure from Sid/G/Sully to move on from Letang, i can see the attempt there.
Theres no top flight C available at the top of this draft for MTL and MTL is no doubt on Tanger's approved list.

Let's have some fun in our down time here.
What would your #3 pick be if Dahlin+Svech went 1/2...?

I genuinely can't see a reason that Montreal would trade pick #3 for Letang, even with Letang being a French Canadian. The only justification from a Montreal POV for making that swap is that Letang is from Montreal and Bergevin is an idiot, there's really no logical reason from a roster or needs POV that they'd do that.

Montreal is either going to keep the pick and go with Zadina or Kotkaniemi at #3, or they'll try to trade down to get Kotkaniemi later.

Edit: a player that may have an impact on Penguins signings: Drake Caggiula just signed a 2 year deal at $1.5 million a season. He's a pretty clearly worse version of Rust (~25 point defensive winger), so I feel like any thoughts of Rust getting in the low $2 millions just took a shot I think. I've seen some people expecting Rust to get a deal like 2 years at $2.25 million a season, I think Caggiula's contract kinda killed that thought. I think this might also mean that Kuhnhackl is going to end up getting more than $750k or so, like I've also seen people suggest.

 

[The Old Master]

Madden was apparently interviewed by DK yesterday and said the Pens are looking to get a top 5 draft pick in this year’s draft....anyone read/listen/watch this interview?

Trading partner? BUF’s not giving up Dahlin....others are CAR, MTL, OTT and ARI....Kessel (+) ? for Domi and the fifth pick? But the #5 pick is a crapshoot...there’s only two top players ready now for the NHL...after that there are only question marks....can’t see this working out in any fashion that makes sense for the Pens...

while they may not be sure things there are 4-5 that could easly play for the big team next yr.
dahlin, svechnikov, zadine, bouchard, Tkachuk, wahlstrem, could be a few others.....some players that wont, might have more up side though. 5 th pick would be great. imo

 

[WayneSid9987]

I genuinely can't see a reason that Montreal would trade pick #3 for Letang, even with Letang being a French Canadian. The only justification from a Montreal POV for making that swap is that Letang is from Montreal and Bergevin is an idiot, there's really no logical reason from a roster or needs POV that they'd do that.

Montreal is either going to keep the pick and go with Zadina or Kotkaniemi at #3, or they'll try to trade down to get Kotkaniemi later.

Well Weber has wonky feet now so that may be one reason MTL would perhaps do it.

Also, stick with the fun. Who would you pick @ #3?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Montreal would kill for Letang. I just don't think they really have anything we need for our most valuable asset. I'm all for making sure this team doesn't turn into the Fata, Surovy, Endicott Penguins of the Dark Years once Sid and Geno slow down dramatically, but I don't think trading our big chip for a top-5 pick makes sense unless it's a deal involving more pieces.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Changing topics for a second, I think everyone agrees that the Penguins need a new 200 foot top-9 LWer. You've seen this mentioned by Bombulie as a part of the return that the Penguins would want for Kessel, and it just makes sense considering who the Penguins have on the roster. The Penguins probably won't re-sign Hagelin if he won't take a paycut, and in all honesty, I'd like to try and trade for someone else to replace him. Does anyone have any suggestions for who'd they target, and what they'd be willing to offer?

Pearson would be the gold standard for a Hagelin replacement, but I don't see how you can get him while not trading Kessel. I'd like to add a guy like that while also keeping Rust, but I'm not sure how easily you can do that.